• Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

God's Will and Sin

Sunday night I did something a bit unfair. When the moderator asked if anyone had any questions before moving on to the pre-approved questions I said yes. What was my question? In light of Pastor's sermon about Abraham and Sarah taking matters into their own hands instead of waiting on God to act in His time, is it wrong to use reproductive technology?

There was a uneasy silence. I am sure they did not expect THAT to be asked. So there was a great deal of embarrassed hemming and hawing. Finally it was decided that no, it was not wrong to use such technologies. As one person said, "if God didn't want you to have a child then those technologies would not work on you." Because nothing happens that isn't God's will.

So I let the matter drop there, but I don't know if they realize what a minefield they opened up with that statement that nothing happens that isn't God's will. That negates the entire concept of Sin, because in order to sin you have to be free to go against God's will and if nothing happens against God's will then sin isn't possible. The heart of Christianity is that humankind, in the form of Adam and Eve, openly rebelled against God in the Garden of Eden by eating the forbidden fruit. According to the above reasoning, they could have only eaten the fruit if it were God's will that they do so, otherwise they wouldn't be capable of defying God. The system has built-in limits to prevent that from happening. Free will is an illusion; we are no more able to rebel against God than a character in a book or a play can rebel against its author. The character can only "rebel" if the author writes it in to the plot.

I work in research. Every so often a compound proves to be so toxic that everyone involved in the study agrees that there is no point in pursuing research on this drug. According to the above logic, God did not want these compounds released into the open market. Fine. But then what about drugs like Phen-Fen which went through all the steps and only proved to be hazardous once they reached the general population? Where is God's will in that? The drug was approved; it was marketed; and thousands died. Cause and effect? Was it the drug that caused the deaths? Was it God's will to allow this drug on the market knowing it would kill people? Did He want people to die from this drug? Or did the drug have nothing at all to do with it and it was simply coincidence that this drug appeared to be involved in a large number of deaths? That these people would have died anyway when they did die? To get back to reproductive technology, when it works it's because it's God's will a child be conceived and when it doesn't it's His will that one not be conceived? Or conceived but not implanted? Then how can we determine the effectiveness of such procedures (which are costly and invasive) if we have no way of knowing for sure? There is a famous verse in the New Testament about believers being able to drink poison and handle deadly serpents. Is it because ultimately there is no such thing as poison or deadly serpents? Is it all a matter of what God has on his mind at that particular moment? Which means usually--but not always--if you drink poison you will die, but it is not the poison that kills you. It's just that today just wasn't your day. Your number was up and would have been no matter what you did or didn't do.

Maybe it is true. I DO think too much. And it really isn't fair to ask questions of people who are not prepared, who haven't been trained to answer them. I will try to be better in the future.

Comments

You are spot-on about the statement: "Nothing happens in the world that is not God's will." It has no merit whatsoever. The problem of evil defies rational explanation by theologians. The Bible tells us God acts within human history but it provides no satisfactory answer to how or why evil and calamity fall upon good people.

An Episcopal Reverend whom I respect speculated on how God might act "maybe God acts like a Judo expert using a small amount of leverage to make things happen differently than an aggressor intends."

I love the book of Job. It is the Bible's most poetic and beautifully written "explanation" of why God allows good humans to suffer. It begins with God and Satan making a wager on the faithfulness of one of God's favorite humans: Job. The book of Job is thought by many biblical scholars to be the oldest book of the Bible. It illustrates how the earliest attributes of Satan, described there as a child of God, were viewed so profoundly different in 2000 B.C. than now. Moreover it is unique because Job approaches God proud and self-righteous and is rewarded. After Job proclaims to his friends a litany of all the good he has done and after he rejects his friends' council, Job states he is pure of sin and tells them how he will confront God: "I would declare unto him the number of my steps; as a prince would I go near unto him." This is no humble man accepting God's will but a prideful and fearless man challenging his God arguing that because he is just and sinless he does not deserve the tragedies he suffered. He rejects the torments as unfair because he deserves no punishment; he proclaims his innocence and asks why God has done this to him. This stands in stark contrast to the virtue of humility and Calvinist descriptions of human depravity. God merely humbles Job by telling him: Who are you to question me? Did you create this world and put the whales in the sea? The Book of Job provides no answer for God's failure to treat good humans differently than evil ones: God allows Job to suffer greatly to win his wager with Satan. God wins because Job does not abandon God or curse him. Job remains faithful and God instead reprimands Job's friends because they accused Job saying he must have done evil to deserve his afflictions. God restores to Job more than he lost. Job is humbled because he recognizes the greatness of God and he remains dear to God in spite of his initial confrontational attitude toward God. St. Paul says something similar in Romans but rejects any right to challenge God: "I shall reply to such a person: you are a mere man. You have no right to accuse God. Scripture says, An object that someone has made cannot say to its maker, ?You should not make me like this.? The potter has the right to make different kinds of pot. Some pots are for noble purposes. Other pots are for unclean use. But the potter makes both kinds of pot from the same lump of clay."

It is pretty clear the Bible is filled with stuff that is confounding, contradictory and irreconcilable to other biblical statements.

All branches of Christianity pick and choose which parts of the Bible they find acceptable and which they ignore or reject and these choices evolve over time. There are infinite opportunities to interpret the Bible to justify evil and bigotry. For example, U.S. Southern Episcopalians justified slavery with some of St. Paul's writings just as some currently reject homosexuality by quoting Romans.

I have said it before: there is much in the Bible that is good and holy as well as much that is troublesome, unacceptable and false. You must, as Jesus says in Mathew 3:12, separate the wheat from the chaff.
 

Blog entry information

Author
Spinning Compass
Read time
3 min read
Views
784
Comments
1
Last update

More entries in General

  • Messages
    I gave it my all during today's 1:1 PT session at the gym. It was tough, but he was happy that I...
  • A trip to the woods
    A trip into the local Fens and Nine Acre Woods. Ed
  • Today's first solo gym session
    Gym session went well. Given how sore my muscles were, I'm surprised that I could do 3 sets of...
  • First solo trip
    This muscle soreness is going to make today's first solo gym session a case of mind over matter...
  • Tonight I trance
    I give an offering of some of my water each time I visit the old oak tree. Respect your elders...

More entries from Spinning Compass

Share this entry

Top Bottom