A Conversation That Went Wrong

[Dustman319]

I've made some mistakes & owe some fines.A year ago my P.O. got me some community service work cleaning at the probation office to help me pay my fines. I clean the bathrooms, take garbage out, mop & vacuum floors. I used to love it there. The other P.O.'s think I do a great job & I even talk to some of them & it gets me out of the house two times a week, which is oh so needed.
One of them is a woman. We've talked before about how she appreciated what I do & know how anxious I was waiting for my braille manuscript to be graded. A few weeks ago, since it was a Friday I tried to start a conversation with her asking what her plans where for the weekend. She said she would like to talk, but she was busy. I understood, but I had a feeling something went wrong.
The next week went by & nothing else about that. Maybe I was worried for nothing. The next Friday I was getting garbage & went into her office to get hers & see wasn't in. Not a problem, I've gotten garbage before when they've stepped out. She comes in & tells me I can't get her garbage unless she's in.
I went to my P.O. because I thought that was odd behavior. He said he'd look into it. A few days latter he found out she thought I was hitting on her when I asked her about the weekend.
I've been depressed for about a week over this. My P.O. want me to talk to her about this. He thinks it would be a good learning experience. I told him no, I'm too embarrassed. He understands. I need this job to pay my fines. I'm afraid of this woman. If she really think how's your weekend=he wants me sexually, I need to stay far away from her like the plague. I've already had the other people put their garbage out in the hallway when I go to get it.
Did I handle this okay? Have has anyone had a simple question get misunderstood like mine?

 

[wyverary]

I don't think it's unreasonable for her to interpret such a question as "sexual advances." Working in a probation office she probably deals with A LOT of creepy/sexist men who get a kick out of propositioning anyone with boobs. It's tough for a woman in such an environment, it's easy to feel threatened (and often for good reason), and she's right to be on her guard like that. I don't think you did anything wrong, but her reaction seems reasonable to me. Just talk to her and explain and apologize. She may understand, or may not, but she'll never know unless you tell her that your inquiry was coming from a perfectly innocent place.

 

[Judge]

I don't think it's unreasonable for her to interpret such a question as "sexual advances." Working in a probation office she probably deals with A LOT of creepy/sexist men who get a kick out of propositioning anyone with boobs. It's tough for a woman in such an environment, it's easy to feel threatened (and often for good reason), and she's right to be on her guard like that. I don't think you did anything wrong, but her reaction seems reasonable to me. Just talk to her and explain and apologize. She may understand, or may not, but she'll never know unless you tell her that your inquiry was coming from a perfectly innocent place.

I'd have to agree. I'd think any woman working long term in such circumstances would be emotionally hardened in such a way. But in the same regard I'm not sure someone with that kind of mindset would even be receptive to an innocent explanation either. Tough call.

 

[Gulas]

Hey there!

I don't know what is to be a women, maybe never will. But she judged you based on past experiences with other people. That's irrational. You can't say men are creepy just because some are. Same way you can't say all women golddiggers just because some are. Overgeneralization is stupid.

I doubt you'll lose your job because you did nothing wrong, you didn't touch no one, you didn't say anything bad. And why are you scared of this woman? She is the one so scared that it clouded her judgment. Is apologies necessary, since you've done nothing wrong? A apologie would guarantee you will NOT lose the job? It would make you more experienced or wiser? Does it worth it? It's your choice.

As for being depressed of what others think, I've been there. But then I realised I can't control what others think, influence a little maybe, but never control. I won't put wear a mask, hide who I am just to satisfy what others will think. **** others (not literally), what good they would do for me? Why should you care for strangers thoughts of you?

 

[ghoulbler]

Hey there!

I don't know what is to be a women, maybe never will. But she judged you based on past experiences with other people. That's irrational. You can't say men are creepy just because some are. Same way you can't say all women golddiggers just because some are. Overgeneralization is stupid.

I doubt you'll lose your job because you did nothing wrong, you didn't touch no one, you didn't say anything bad. And why are you scared of this woman? She is the one so scared that it clouded her judgment. Is apologies necessary, since you've done nothing wrong? A apologie would guarantee you will NOT lose the job? It would make you more experienced or wiser? Does it worth it? It's your choice.

As for being depressed of what others think, I've been there. But then I realised I can't control what others think, influence a little maybe, but never control. I won't put wear a mask, hide who I am just to satisfy what others will think. **** others (not literally), what good they would do for me? Why should you care for strangers thoughts of you?

I don't think it was irrational. It's not so much that she was judging him based on past experiences, but that she has probably dealt with a lot of harassment in her years.
We humans learn from our experiences. If you touch the burner while it's hot, you'll get burned, and make a mental note to avoid doing that again in the future. That's, essentially, what this woman is doing. It's not irrational to look at past experiences to save yourself from future problems. It's literally just how humans work.

Anyway @Dustman319, just tell her that you did not mean to make her feel threatened - you weren't trying to hit on her, you were just trying to strike up a conversation. She probably thought you were hitting on her because usually when guys ask a woman out, they'll ask if they're doing anything that weekend, and if they aren't, they'll ask them out on a date. She probably thought that's what you were doing.

 

[Gulas]

I don't think it was irrational. It's not so much that she was judging him based on past experiences, but that she has probably dealt with a lot of harassment in her years.
We humans learn from our experiences. If you touch the burner while it's hot, you'll get burned, and make a mental note to avoid doing that again in the future. That's, essentially, what this woman is doing. It's not irrational to look at past experiences to save yourself from future problems. It's literally just how humans work.

Anyway @Dustman319, just tell her that you did not mean to make her feel threatened - you weren't trying to hit on her, you were just trying to strike up a conversation. She probably thought you were hitting on her because usually when guys ask a woman out, they'll ask if they're doing anything that weekend, and if they aren't, they'll ask them out on a date. She probably thought that's what you were doing.

While it's not irrational to care for your own safety and well being, it's irrational to live your life in fear, discriminating other men because of some misbehavior of some.

And expressing ones feelings, or flirting are no sin, it's not something dirty, as long nobody is hurted, and there's conssent (harass is different than flirt). Our society is full of sexual shame, affecting MOST people, regardless of their gender or sexual orientation. It's innapropriate in some places like work, or a dark street.

So Dustman, I'm curious what happened after these days? Are you still depressed? Are you still doing your job?

PS: About depression, I've been there for years of my life, is not something pleasant.

 

[ghoulbler]

While it's not irrational to care for your own safety and well being, it's irrational to live your life in fear, discriminating other men because of some misbehavior of some.

And expressing ones feelings, or flirting are no sin, it's not something dirty, as long nobody is hurted, and there's conssent (harass is different than flirt). Our society is full of sexual shame, affecting MOST people, regardless of their gender or sexual orientation. It's innapropriate in some places like work, or a dark street.

So Dustman, I'm curious what happened after these days? Are you still depressed? Are you still doing your job?

PS: About depression, I've been there for years of my life, is not something pleasant.

"Discriminating against men because of the misbehavior of some"

She wasn't discriminating, she was being cautious. She mistook his question as an advance, and all he needs to do is explain that it wasn't his intention - problem solved. And it is not irrational to live your life in fear of men, as a woman.
I'm a woman and I cannot walk down the street without being verbally - and physically - attacked, EVEN in broad daylight. I've had a middle aged guy sneak up behind me and wrap his arms around me before giving me a big, sloppy kiss on my cheek while all of his friends laughed. That's just one situation out of SO MANY that I have to deal with on a daily basis. It happens every day, multiple times a day. It is not irrational for me to develop a fear of men because of these circumstances.
It would be irrational if sexual harassment didn't exist, but it does, and it's rampant. It's entirely rational to be afraid of a real issue in today's society. Don't blame the woman. Instead, ask yourself if your actions could have been misinterpreted, and then take it from there. If you are not capable of figuring it out yourself, ask someone else - that's exactly what the OP did.

 

[Gulas]

I would love to discuss this even more, intelectual discussions are awesome. But by doing that, it would digress the point of this post (but a PM would be great), which is actions being misinterpreted, like you said.

I'm bad at comunication, and aspieness worse the problem. I can relate with Dusty problem, but it never put risk of my job.

 

[Dustman319]

"Discriminating against men because of the misbehavior of some"

She wasn't discriminating, she was being cautious. She mistook his question as an advance, and all he needs to do is explain that it wasn't his intention - problem solved. And it is not irrational to live your life in fear of men, as a woman.
I'm a woman and I cannot walk down the street without being verbally - and physically - attacked, EVEN in broad daylight. I've had a middle aged guy sneak up behind me and wrap his arms around me before giving me a big, sloppy kiss on my cheek while all of his friends laughed. That's just one situation out of SO MANY that I have to deal with on a daily basis. It happens every day, multiple times a day. It is not irrational for me to develop a fear of men because of these circumstances.
It would be irrational if sexual harassment didn't exist, but it does, and it's rampant. It's entirely rational to be afraid of a real issue in today's society. Don't blame the woman. Instead, ask yourself if your actions could have been misinterpreted, and then take it from there. If you are not capable of figuring it out yourself, ask someone else - that's exactly what the OP did.

With help from Ste11aeres & Historianthomas the night I posted this, they helped me see her point of view. The hardest part for me is to imagine what it's like to in another person's shoes. I now know it was clumsy chit-chat on my part.

To ghoulbler, I know that world is a dangerous place, that a women(anyone really)can be victims from sexual harassment to assault. I've read horror stories about teenage girls committing suicide because they were attacked & the perpetrators post the attack on the internet & other people sided with the perpetrators. The world is hard enough without people hurting each other. ghoulbler, I'm so sorry you had that middle-age guy kiss you without your permission. If I had to think one thing everyone could improve on,(too many things really)it's boundaries. I would definitely not kiss a stranger in any situation. Without boundaries, we're animals which I think most of society as become. Most people think is themselves first.

Rant over.

 

[ghoulbler]

With help from Ste11aeres & Historianthomas the night I posted this, they helped me see her point of view. The hardest part for me is to imagine what it's like to in another person's shoes. I now know it was clumsy chit-chat on my part.

To ghoulbler, I know that world is a dangerous place, that a women(anyone really)can be victims from sexual harassment to assault. I've read horror stories about teenage girls committing suicide because they were attacked & the perpetrators post the attack on the internet & other people sided with the perpetrators. The world is hard enough without people hurting each other. ghoulbler, I'm so sorry you had that middle-age guy kiss you without your permission. If I had to think one thing everyone could improve on,(too many things really)it's boundaries. I would definitely not kiss a stranger in any situation. Without boundaries, we're animals which I think most of society as become. Most people think is themselves first.

Rant over.

Sorry if I went on a bit of a rant myself, I was just trying to explain that we shouldn't blame women for being cautious around men because of our daily struggles, and I hope I didn't derail the thread too much. I kind of got very caught up in the whole thing. Thank you for your words, by the way. Hopefully you can approach this woman and talk about how you feel, and hopefully she will understand.

 

[Judge]

Sorry if I went on a bit of a rant myself, I was just trying to explain that we shouldn't blame women for being cautious around men because of our daily struggles, and I hope I didn't derail the thread too much. I kind of got very caught up in the whole thing. Thank you for your words, by the way. Hopefully you can approach this woman and talk about how you feel, and hopefully she will understand.

Nothing to apologize for. You had a valid point of view and you shared it.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I think the people on this thread are essentially in agreement. We all think that women should not be sexually harassed. We also hopefully know that sexuality has it's place and although misused, and used as a form of horrible abuse in some (too many) cases, is still a good thing in some other cases. We know that some men harass women, but that Dustman had innocent intentions. Innocent intentions which were misunderstood. We hope that things got straightened out for him. The little tension earlier simply had to do with varying emphases, on different aspects of this delicate issue.

 

[Ereth]

I have to make a correction here: NO ONE should be sexually harassed. Women aren't the only victims.

 

[Gulas]

I have to make a correction here: NO ONE should be sexually harassed. Women aren't the only victims.

I agree, in this world there are a lot of violence, abusers, bullys, people who can break your spirit and scar you for the rest of your life. Sometimes these type of people are in your family (like mine):help:. No one deserve this.

How to deal with fear, pain, or how to make this world better is one of my quests on my day-to-day.

See ya.

 

[ghoulbler]

I have to make a correction here: NO ONE should be sexually harassed. Women aren't the only victims.

There are also more than two genders. There are those who don't identify as any gender, those who identify as both, etc etc. I could go on, but that would be lengthy. I think we can all agree that no one should be harassed, it's just that a woman was the topic, so I just mentioned women. It's cool that you added this on, though.
I also see that we live in the same city

Anyway, I think the issue(s) have been solved on this thread.

 

[Ereth]

Rest assured that I'm aware of the gender spectrum as well---I'm pansexual.

I did not mention it because, as you said, that is a complex and lengthy topic. I responded regarding men because of the general stereotype regarding domestic and sexual abuse---that women are the victims and men are the abusers. While it's true that this is statistically more common, it doesn't mean that men cannot be victimized. I just wanted to remind everyone of that.

And yes, we are both Gothamites! I noticed your avatar fairly quickly after registering and it makes me laugh every time I see it. (Poor Eddie!)