A debate I had with my new AA sponsor.

[Metalhead]

Basically, my new AA sponsor is against me drinking non-alcoholic beer, and I am for drinking non-alcoholic beer. I get the beer flavor with fewer calories and no hangover. My AA sponsor calls that "rationalizing", and he means that in a detrimental way.

I am not drinking very much of it because the only non-alcoholic beer I like, Heineken 0.0%, is $20 for 12 bottles.

What are your opinions on this debate?

 

[DrBadStrings]

Basically, my new AA sponsor is against me drinking non-alcoholic beer, and I am for drinking non-alcoholic beer. I get the beer flavor with fewer calories and no hangover. My AA sponsor calls that "rationalizing", and he means that in a detrimental way.

I am not drinking very much of it because the only non-alcoholic beer I like, Heineken 0.0%, is $20 for 12 bottles.

What are your opinions on this debate?

Honestly I'd be telling the AA person to take a long walk of a short pier. And I say this as an alcoholic in recovery myself with over a year now. And as someone who in my previous extended 26 months of sobriety was in AA for about half that time.

While I am glad that AA works for some I feel that it is a very narrowminded and restrictive group that does more harm than good. They've not acknowledged 100 years of advancement in the understanding and treatment of Alcoholism and are essentially still at the "pray it away" mentality. They also put all of the blame on the person and not for their asinine steps.

Fun fact for you, the suicide rate among alcoholics that have been to AA is higher than in the population of alcoholics that has never been. The AA mentality is all about guilt and shame and if you can't stay sober you are at fault and not AA's inept grasp on what alcoholism really is, a disease recognized by medical professionals since the 1950's.

If drinking a non alcoholic beer will keep you from drinking an alcoholic beer then it's pretty clear what you should be going with. And if your sponsor is going to give you grief for that, get a new sponsor, and better yet, find something better than AA. Like an actual therapist, social worker, or medical professional that is trained in dealing with Substance Use Disorders.

 

[Metalhead]

Honestly I'd be telling the AA person to take a long walk of a short pier. And I say this as an alcoholic in recovery myself with over a year now. And as someone who in my previous extended 26 months of sobriety was in AA for about half that time.

While I am glad that AA works for some I feel that it is a very narrowminded and restrictive group that does more harm than good. They've not acknowledged 100 years of advancement in the understanding and treatment of Alcoholism and are essentially still at the "pray it away" mentality. They also put all of the blame on the person and not for their asinine steps.

Fun fact for you, the suicide rate among alcoholics that have been to AA is higher than in the population of alcoholics that has never been. The AA mentality is all about guilt and shame and if you can't stay sober you are at fault and not AA's inept grasp on what alcoholism really is, a disease recognized by medical professionals since the 1950's.

If drinking a non alcoholic beer will keep you from drinking an alcoholic beer then it's pretty clear what you should be going with. And if your sponsor is going to give you grief for that, get a new sponsor, and better yet, find something better than AA. Like an actual therapist, social worker, or medical professional that is trained in dealing with Substance Use Disorders.

Seeing as most of the people I met in AA seem to think of themselves as being genuinely irredeemable, I think I need to find a different avenue to support my sobriety at this point.

 

[DrBadStrings]

@Metalhead I just wanted to add too that if it wasn't for non-alcoholic beer I don't think I would have had the success I did at a recent music festival I was at. The entire time the bars in the tents had an array of non-alcoholic beers and I was never tempted for a real one. In fact at one point a bartender misheard me, gave me a real beer which I returned immediately without hesitation. The non-alcoholic beer took away any temptation for real deal that I may have had that night otherwise.

 

[Metalhead]

@Metalhead I just wanted to add too that if it wasn't for non-alcoholic beer I don't think I would have had the success I did at a recent music festival I was at. The entire time the bars in the tents had an array of non-alcoholic beers and I was never tempted for a real one. In fact at one point a bartender misheard me, gave me a real beer which I returned immediately without hesitation. The non-alcoholic beer took away any temptation for real deal that I may have had that night otherwise.

Yeah, I think at this point non-alcoholic beer is a lesser vice than something as calorie-filled as Mountain Dew.

 

[DrBadStrings]

Seeing as most of the people I met in AA seem to think of themselves as being genuinely irredeemable, I think I need to find a different avenue to support my sobriety at this point.

My biggest problem with AA is the opener. Excuse me if I paraphrase as it's been a while. But that line "we admitted to ourselves that we were powerless". That line is the most dangerous part of AA in my view. If you day in and day out tell yourself you are powerless to deal with your addiction you will believe it and you won't succeed.

It's along the same lines of why you wouldn't tell a child every day growing up that they were stupid and worthless because eventually they would start to believe it and act accordingly.

Getting and staying sober takes work. Hard work. And often the help of medical professionals is needed. But the pro's should be the first stop. AA should be a secondary support for some. For me my secondary support is a non-step weekly peer support group for addicts of all stripes. We meet, we talk about what does and doesnt work, what's going on in our lives, it's a pretty open talk but I always walk away with motivation and new insight.

 

[Misery]

Seeing as most of the people I met in AA seem to think of themselves as being genuinely irredeemable, I think I need to find a different avenue to support my sobriety at this point.

I'm surprised you havent kicked them to the curb already. Everything you've said about them over time just tells me that all they are doing is making this even harder for you. As if defeating an addiction isnt hard enough already. They seem to be doing the opposite of their stated function.

It's up to *you* to put a stop to that, though, as it seems pretty clear that they will not improve their methods. It's certainly okay to vent and discuss on here and all, but you have to make a change, or there will be no change.

Words are hollow, action isnt.

I'm sure I butchered the funky heck outta that phrase but you probably get what I mean.

 

[Metalhead]

I'm surprised you havent kicked them to the curb already. Everything you've said about them over time just tells me that all they are doing is making this even harder for you. As if defeating an addiction isnt hard enough already. They seem to be doing the opposite of their stated function.

It's up to *you* to put a stop to that, though, as it seems pretty clear that they will not improve their methods. It's certainly okay to vent and discuss on here and all, but you have to make a change, or there will be no change.

Words are hollow, action isnt.

I'm sure I butchered the funky heck outta that phrase but you probably get what I mean.

You are right, it is time for me to look for a sober community somewhere else - preferably not around people who make their addictions the entirety of their being.

 

[Gerontius]

Beer is awesome, alcoholism is not, beer isn't the problem but the alcohol in it is- how is reasoning a bad thing?

Sobriety makes a world of sense but I would LOVE to be able to have five beers at a brewery instead of having to walk home after two. (Lightweight, lol.) It would mean I could enjoy the social aspect and the refreshing cold and flavor profiles without the issues from alcohol.

 

[Shamar]

You are right, it is time for me to look for a sober community somewhere else - preferably not around people who make their addictions the entirety of their being.

I have never been addicted to alcohol, or anything else, but I suspect I came close. If I had a social life, I might have succumbed. It seems to me that saying you are forever powerless against it, you are forever addicted. The goal should be to overcome the addiction and recover, not be under it's spell forever. If you are drinking non alcoholic beer for the flavor, and not for the memory of being drunk, I believe you have mostly recovered. Are you still susceptible to the lure of alcohol? You now seem to have enough will power to turn it down. In this forum, we often say "If you have met one autistic person, then you have met one autistic person." We are all individuals and we are all different. The opinion of one sponsor is the opinion of one sponsor. It seem to me, if you ARE turning down the alcohol, then what you drink, even if it is beer flavored, is irrelevant. Keep up the good work.

 

[Metalhead]

I have never been addicted to alcohol, or anything else, but I suspect I came close. If I had a social life, I might have succumbed. It seems to me that saying you are forever powerless against it, you are forever addicted. The goal should be to overcome the addiction and recover, not be under it's spell forever. If you are drinking non alcoholic beer for the flavor, and not for the memory of being drunk, I believe you have mostly recovered. Are you still susceptible to the lure of alcohol? You now seem to have enough will power to turn it down. In this forum, we often say "If you have met one autistic person, then you have met one autistic person." We are all individuals and we are all different. The opinion of one sponsor is the opinion of one sponsor. It seem to me, if you ARE turning down the alcohol, then what you drink, even if it is beer flavored, is irrelevant. Keep up the good work.

I like having more energy and not having any more hangovers.

 

[Aspychata]

l was shocked how good the Heineken non-alcoholic beer is. l could have sworn l was drinking the real thing. Just don't inform your sponsor of your non-alcoholic choices, it's not their business. Your mom put you in a position of helplessness in your personal choices , (l say this nicely) STOP giving random people control over your life choices. Hey, congrats on staying on target for getting your life more on track. Pat yourself on your back, your choices have changed so much in the last two years. You are actually qualified to give us motivational talks to those of us floundering around in our bad choices

 

[DrBadStrings]

Beer is awesome, alcoholism is not, beer isn't the problem but the alcohol in it is- how is reasoning a bad thing?

Sobriety makes a world of sense but I would LOVE to be able to have five beers at a brewery instead of having to walk home after two. (Lightweight, lol.) It would mean I could enjoy the social aspect and the refreshing cold and flavor profiles without the issues from alcohol.

At least in my province there is now a massive selection of non alcoholic craft beer at most of the larger grocery stores. Interestingly enough the biggest market for them being those in their 20's/30's that simply don't want to drink alcohol but still like beer. But they never had a problem with alcohol though. I keep some on hand at the house but I rarely ever want a beer. I was a whiskey/vodka drinker and never had issues with beer. Having those in my pantry isn't a trigger for me at all. And while I no longer drink I do occasionally want a beer and it's nice that there are now a lot of high quality non alcoholic options. That younger generation is doing something right.

 

[Rocco]

On one hand I can see enjoying the taste of something to get you through the struggle to overcome something like addiction.

On the other hand… change people, places, and things in recovery comes to mind. Also if you are drinking non alcoholic beer it’s just one step away from real beer so it’s a placebo or placeholder for addiction.

Both sides are valid points. I think If you could have controlled your drinking you would not be in recovery. It has been a problem in your past so why flirt with disaster and old habits in the present?
I say that with no judgment of you personally, it’s just based on my experience with others I’ve met in life.

 

[Judge]

Interesting question. My answer? You decide, @Metalhead.

Apparently there are plenty of articles about this, yet they can differ in their answer. Yes, no and maybe or both. Seems to me it's best left to the individual to decide if this is more a problem or a solution.

Refreshment or relapse: Can alcoholics drink nonalcoholic beer? - Addiction Treatment in Knoxville, TN - Cornerstone of Recovery

Does Non-Alcoholic Beer Break Sobriety? 7 Facts You Need to Know — Sober Powered

Does Drinking Non-Alcoholic Beer Break Sobriety?

Does Non-Alcoholic Beer or Wine Help or Hinder Alcohol Recovery?

 

[Rodafina]

@Metalhead
AA sponsors are not omniscient and infallible role models - each one of them had to find their own path and sometimes, they try to impose that path on others.

That does not mean that it is the right path for you.

If you are very honest with yourself and can see how drinking non-alcoholic beer could contribute to a relapse, then sure, stay away from it. On the other hand, if it has been a helpful substitute to you and you are enjoying it, then maybe you just don't have to listen to this guy.

I enjoy sparkling hop-flavored ice tea, which tastes a lot like a beer. It has never caused a craving or a problem. It's just a lovely, savory drink to enjoy and does not spark the pathological and unnatural dopamine reward system that I abused so badly with drugs and alcohol.

 

[Xinyta]

Honestly. Do what's best for you. Overreliance on anything trend to be a nasty trap. People are fallible. Methods will not work on everyone.

It's along the same lines of why you wouldn't tell a child every day growing up that they were stupid and worthless because eventually they would start to believe it and act accordingly.

My stepmother would be a great AA employee.

But seriously. Reading that sent shivers down my spine. I know that all too well. Living through that exact thing.

 

[Metalhead]

The key to my recovery is not hating myself for having an addiction. It is finding better things to do. AA is dead to me now.