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ADHD and ASD (sorry for long post)

Misty Avich

Hellooooooooooo!!!
V.I.P Member
I think I derailed the "why non-verbal?" thread enough (it's a habit of mine to go off on tangents on internet forums, apologies).
To avoid steering the topic in somebody else's thread on to myself I thought I'd continue the off-topic discussion in my own thread.
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This diagram thing is pretty interesting.
The majority of my problems seem to outweigh ASD by a mile.

Craves novelty and new experiences - I've always loved surprises, and often my mum would arrange surprise sleepovers for me with a cousin, and I was so excited when I found out. I wasn't the sort of child to follow or plan a routine and preferred spontaneity. As an adult I do sometimes have problems coming out of my comfort zone but this is part of anxiety, and I still have difficulty following a routine.

Difficulty regulating attention and focus - I have always had difficulty with attention and focus, even as a child. When I got fascinated by something I still had difficulty buckling down and learning more. When I was 12 I developed an obsession with Spanish and really wanted to learn the language, but I had difficulties with it which made the passion die off. That's just one example.

Difficulty reading social cues due to focus and attention issues - This has always been my problem when it comes to making friends, although it's gotten better as an adult. As a child it wasn't that I was unaware of social cues, far from it, but I often expressed impulsive behaviours that were annoying to my peers, due to inattention to "read the room".

Hyperactivity and impulsivity - I was a hyperactive child and impulsivity has always been my main symptom and difficulty controlling.

Inhibition difficulties - I don't think I had this as a child, as I'd sometimes be shy depending on what environment I was in, but as an adult I have online inhibition difficulties, like becoming addicted to online posting and finding it difficult to resist the temptation to post and not care about the consequences at the time (but then care too much after the damage is done).

The autism traits are very hit-or-miss for me.

Craves familiarity and routine - Usually I get mistaken for this when actually it's not. Like at my previous job at a care home I hated certain wings because those made me more anxious (more difficult residents, less staff and more work, etc). But my boss thought I just didn't like being on the wings I didn't like because I didn't like change, but it wasn't that at all. I often crave change, like at work. I get bored doing the same repetitive thing every day.

Self-soothes through repetitive behaviours and routines - I've ever been one to flap my hands or rock, despite my high anxiety levels. My way of dealing with anxiety is to talk to people about it, to get it off my chest, seek reassurance, and discuss solutions. Stoic, blunt answers like "yeah, your worst fear's gonna happen, nothing you can do about it" can ignite my anxiety further even if it is the truth. I rather things be sugarcoated, as this can soothe my anxiety and even make me forget what I was worrying about.
I do shake my leg sometimes when sitting but that's due to restlessness.

Difficulty reading social cues intuitively - As I already mentioned, I know I don't lack this intuition. Non-verbal cues make social life easier for me in a way.

Strict adherence to routines - No, I can't stand routine, which is why I wish I was rich enough to not have to work. I sometimes wish I could do shift work so that my routine can change more and I wouldn't become so bored or depressed, but many shift work involves very long shifts which might cause emotional burnout.

TL;DR: So most of my supposedly ASD symptoms are caused by ADHD reasons. Is that where the difference is?

For example:-

An ASD child doesn't want his toys moved by other people because it makes him very anxious due to preference to sameness and predictability.

An ADHD child doesn't want her toys moved by other people because if they make a mess or put things in places where the ADHD child may make a mess looking for them, then her mum will tell her to tidy her room again and she doesn't want to do that again. But once the toys are out of place again the ADHD child doesn't get too bothered if her toys are moved.

The latter describes me as a child. As an adult I care even less when my things are touched or moved. I have loads of (unfinished) projects and books everywhere, but I find it so hard to organise them and I don't notice if they are touched or moved.
I bought a little chest of plastic drawers to store all my art and writing books in and keep them organised. I even stuck stickers on the drawers and wrote what was in each drawer on them. But now somehow what is written on the stickers have no relevance to what is in the drawers lol.
 
Mine actually zigzag quite a lot, too. Since I've been diagnosed with both at different times as an adult, I've pretty much accepted that I have AuDHD, which is apparently also a thing.

I definitely don't have classic signs of either, but all of the middle stuff is pretty much there, now that I double-checked it. So weird (yet helpful) to see it all laid out like that!
 
People have guessed I have ADHD but ASD has never been guessed. I display a lot of hyperactivity for an adult, and people love my sense of humour and "silliness". It's all part of hyperactivity, not being childish.
 
What do your reports for PDD-NOS and ADHD say your traits are?
It would be easiest to identity what is what by seeing what the professionals identified.
 
But I bet the traits in the ADHD section have been mentioned as autism traits at some point. It seems that every trait of dyspraxia is also an autism trait. It's like autism steals all the traits from all the other neurological disorders.
 
I can't really pin it down, but I'm often bored and I'm drawn to more attractive and dynamic distractions. I also can't sit still, lol. I fidget, drum my fingers, pace with a leg etc. I think I can be impulsive as well. As a child I was everywhere and doing things all the time, hyperactive.

As a child it wasn't that I was unaware of social cues, far from it, but I often expressed impulsive behaviours that were annoying to my peers, due to inattention to "read the room".
I was and am aware of other people's emotions, but I don't neccesarily want to do the expected thing and it's hard to resist doing something that I would want, not what others would expect.

Strict adherence to routines
That one is curious, I stick to routines, because I get so wrapped up in doing one thing (hyperfocus) that I forget about everything else or I get distracted and start doing something else and a set order and times reduce how complicated it is for me to do some tasks. If the order is always the same, it's easier to remember and learn. Or for example if I always put something in the same place, I don't lose it. Otherwise - I do.

I also find it hard to adjust when something during the day changes the hour, because my body doesn't give signals to e.g. sleep or eat otherwise.

So I don't know in general if that's ASD or ADHD. An ASD thing is that I find changes to routine exhausting. It's like my body and brain need to learn them. It feels completely different. I can't easily make sense of all the sensation changes produce and tune to them. Generally I find that the concept of a "highly sensitive person" describes it the best.

An ADHD child doesn't want her toys moved by other people because if they make a mess or put things in places where
I would just lose something if someone moved it, I have difficulties finding things in a mess or in unexpected places. It's not that I worry and this is the problem... I just can't deal with clutter.

I've ever been one to flap my hands or rock, despite my high anxiety levels.
I fidget a lot for a lot of reasons.
 
I meant to say "I've never been one to flap my hands or rock".
Although I do find myself in a rut, I still find routine difficult. I don't have a particular bedtime routine, and my body clock is all over the place. When the clocks go back or forward an hour it doesn't make any difference to me.
I don't always forget to do important things, I just deliberately leave most things until another day. I can be very spontaneous and creative.
 
Interesting post!

I know someone, who's daughter has ADHD and before she was officially diagnosed, she took the aspie test and did grade quite high. However, it is CLEAR that she does not have aspergers, because there are some contradictions. But, it is easy to see why "professionals" can get confused ( oh, the irony of that), because there are similarities too, which is why, many are diagnosed with both, when in fact, it is one or the other.

Those who have ADHD have no time regulation. Those with Aspergers, are hyper over time and I am well known to be a great time keeper.

When I was being diagnosed, I remember the "expert" said that I do not have autism; I have aspergers and thus, it actually winds me up with many say they have autism, when it is aspergers.
 
I heard from a PhD level therapist who specializes in autism that in the autism field there's a theory one of the researchers put forward that ADHD and ASD LV I are the same thing. Who knows if that's really the case.

I do know from my own personal experience that I connect seamlessly and far better with other people I know who have only been diagnosed with ADHD than I do with NTs. I've also known several people who have belonged to autism support groups I've been in that were only diagnosed with ADHD and they fit in perfectly with those of us who have ASD.

Since I'm diagnosed with both ADHD and ASD I don't know the answer to this, but I'd really like to know of people diagnosed solely with ASD and NOT with ADHD if they have racing random thoughts constantly or not. If people with ASD (and not ADHD) also have racing random thoughts then in my mind it would further support that theory that ADHD and ASD are perhaps...the same thing.

Also, as far as the differences between ASD/Aspergers and ADHD being contradictions, etc. Look at how many females are overlooked, undiagnosed or misdiagnosed for ASD because their traits can be so much different than the male-biased ASD testing. Perhaps again, those contradictions really aren't contradictions but are just part of a broader spectrum of ADHD and ASD being the same?
 
Since I'm diagnosed with both ADHD and ASD I don't know the answer to this, but I'd really like to know of people diagnosed solely with ASD and NOT with ADHD if they have racing random thoughts constantly or not. If people with ASD (and not ADHD) also have racing random thoughts then in my mind it would further support that theory that ADHD and ASD are perhaps...the same thing.
Well if you ask autistic people that then they'll probably say yes they do have racing thoughts, because many autistics just put everything they do down to autism. One time on another forum I saw a thread come up saying it's an autism trait to not follow rules and everyone in it agreed. But then in all* the other threads (*figure of speech) they said that it is definitely an autism trait to follow rules rigidly. Makes more sense that following rules is more of an autism trait than not.
Also, as far as the differences between ASD/Aspergers and ADHD being contradictions, etc. Look at how many females are overlooked, undiagnosed or misdiagnosed for ASD because their traits can be so much different than the male-biased ASD testing. Perhaps again, those contradictions really aren't contradictions but are just part of a broader spectrum of ADHD and ASD being the same?
I think I may have been diagnosed with ADHD in childhood had I been a boy or if I was a naughty extrovert at school. But being so I was very shy in the classroom and had a fear of getting into trouble, I guess ADHD got overlooked.
Back then ADHD was still another word for "naughty schoolboy", but it has been proved that a lot of the ADHD population are actually opposite to its original stereotype.

There were a few extroverted boys in my class who often disrupted the class by impulsively having to talk to their friends and showing off in class when they were supposed to be quiet. But they were just popular extroverted NTs, not kids with ADHD. Generally kids with ADHD have challenges throughout school that these extroverted NT kids didn't have.
 
What was tested on your ADHD assessment, Misty, or anyone else who has both Autism and ADHD?
Can you post a list of your tests from your assessment report and also the list from your autism report?

I'll do the same when I get up.

The list is different. The reports are different.
 
The only thing that makes me not doubt ASD is the way I was as an adolescent. My social skills seemed to decline at age 10 or 11 and I was too socially awkward and lonely to just have ADHD. In fact I seemed more socially awkward and lonely than the average high-functioning female Aspie. It might have been because my stupid ASD diagnosis was revealed to everyone and their dog, and also because I had an aide sit with me in the classroom so that got everyone seeing me as "the class dunce" or something and were too embarrassed to be seen with me or something.
 
Is it possible you just became more acutely aware of your loneliness in adolescence, because that's when the other kids started to develop socially but also because it's when we all become more self-conscious and introspective?

It's also possible that you were starting to experience depression or other mental health effects because of the length of time since you first started having an aide at school.

(Sorry I'll post my report info but I'm moving slowly.)
 
That could be from masking, but of course social skills aren't the only consideration in autism.


Sorry for the delay.

Here's my list of tests performed for my ASD assessment (2018) vs. my ADHD assessment (2020).

I thought it might be interesting for people to see how different they were, regardless of what the online articles might say about there being similarities.

I recall there were a few tests that the ADHD doctor didn't need to do because he used my ASD data, but he said most of the tests were completely distinct.




ASD Tests Conducted: (Focus on social but also sensory, emotional, non-verbal skills, etc.)

ASD Tests.png




ADHD Tests Conducted: (Focus on attention and memory)


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This was called "CNS Vital Signs" - I assume that means Central Nervous System but idk:

CNS Vital Signs .jpeg



CAARS S-L:

CAARS SL.jpeg



Brief-A:

BriefA .jpeg



ARS:

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Sorry for the infodump but I think this makes it really clear that ASD and ADHD tests don't look at the same measures even when they're related to DSM.
 

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