Advice wanted from Aspie mothers (or mothers of Aspie mothers...)

[Peatsmoke]

Does this ring any bells with anybody:

My sister (who I think is an Aspie - I would never dare bring it up with her) has recently told our mum that she's no longer welcome to spend any time with her daughter (mum's granddaughter). When asked why, she just said "Don't get me started!".

My mum and my sister used to be pretty close - closer than me and mum, for sure. My sister was always protective about mum - "don't say/do that, you'll upset her!" etc. She used to say how good their relationship was.

But that all changed when she moved away with her husband and had a kid, four years ago. She moved to Boston, a looong way from my mum in Seattle, so "granny" could only visit a couple of times a year (my mum hasn't got a lot of money, unlike my sister, who's pretty loaded). Fine. But when granny visited, she was only allowed to see her granddaughter for a day or two, even though she stayed for a week. Also, she had to stay in a hotel/Airbnb - my sister told her she couldn't stay in their house.

Then, last week, she said she didn't want mum seeing her kid ever again. She's still allowed to skype occasionally, but not to actually see her in the flesh.

I know having other people in your home can be difficult for some Aspies (including me), but this seems a bit extreme... Any thoughts?

 

[Momo]

I think something rather drastic must have occurred for a reaction quite that severe. I know I wouldn't just cut off a family member entirely without something very bad happening, especially a mother, and especially if I was close with her. I would probably cherish her visits more if I couldn't see her often. I suggest talking to your sister about it, and your mother, that's the only way you're going to get the whole story and come to your own conclusions. But in the end, your sister can do what she wants. And if that's estranging herself from her family, then that's her choice unfortunately.

 

[Peatsmoke]

I think something rather drastic must have occurred for a reaction quite that severe.

Yes, I would think that too... But nothing seems to have happened to prompt this; it's just been a gradual slide into being made more and more unwelcome. I've talked to mum about this quite a lot, but I haven't talked to my sister for over a year - our relationship has always been pretty bad.

 

[Alaska]

Yes, I would think that too... But nothing seems to have happened to prompt this; it's just been a gradual slide into being made more and more unwelcome. I've talked to mum about this quite a lot, but I haven't talked to my sister for over a year - our relationship has always been pretty bad.

I would suspect an abusive and controlling spouse is behind the changes in your sister. They like to isolate their victims from friends and family.

You can neither stop the abuse, nor convince the victim, (your sister), to face up to the abuse and get out until she is ready. The only thing you can do is not let him totally cut off contact. Inform yourself on how to support her once she is ready to get out. I am getting you a link about this.

How to help women abused and controlled by male partners: Stage 1

https://www.womenshealth.gov/violen...how-to-help-a-friend-who-is-being-abused.html

I do not like these links since they do not fit your situation very well. I will look for something better.

https://www.womenshealth.gov/violen...esources-by-state-violence-against-women.html

This one is better. If you can talk to your mother about this, you might want to give her a single hotline number that your sister can easily hide where her spouse will not find it. If an abuser finds something that makes him think his victim is preparing to leave, she can be in greater danger.

It is likely that she is still unaware of, or in denial of her abuse at this point. Having children also makes it much harder for her to get away.

I am not sure that you should talk to your mother about this. You know her, so you can best decide. It could make your mother feel better to know that nothing he has done has caused this. It could really drive her crazy worrying about your sister's safety and that of her grandchildren. Your sister might be inclined to reach out to your mother for help first, once she is out of denial.

 

[Maiki]

Tricky painful territory. I'm a late diagnosed Aspie-- married and mum of 3. Growing up, our family probably looked to all outsiders as the quintessential functional, picture perfect version of a family. Upstanding professionals for parents. Very involved in community. Lovely home. Two boys and me, the girl in the middle, for kids. We were great students, church going, went on to successful careers of our own.
Pretty picture began to unravel when my mum became ill with an aggressive early-onset dementia. She lost her ability to use language before she lost her other mental faculties. I could write a novel about how my family of birth imploded, but the long story short--I emerged from it all enforcing full disconnection from my older brother. No one but myself and my mental health professionals will ever understand why I needed to sever all connections to him. While I feel sadness about the fact that he has subsequently blocked all attempts of mine to continue any contact with his own children (returned my gifts and birthday cards), I needed to take this step to protect myself and my own family. After decades of emotional abuse, I finally found the strength, self-worth and support to escape him. My surviving family members are actually somewhat supportive of my decision, even though they do not know the extent of what went on. Even within a family, realities and perspectives can vary, and often family members play unwitting or misguided complicit roles in maintaining dysfunction.
My point in sharing all this, if I have one, is to try to talk separately to the family members involved. Try to hear their perspectives without imposing judgement. Then, follow your instincts with regard to how you proceed. If your sister is unwilling or unable to speak frankly with you, then don't hesitate to follow up with concerns for her well being-- until your mind is at ease that she is able to act freely. Sometimes abuse is hard to see, even for those in the midst of it. I think that being an Aspie female, my life has been largely spent trying to please others, fit in-- at all personal cost, make peace, etc. I have enormous amounts of emotional empathy (it's my super power), but am lacking greatly in cognitive empathy. By this, I mean I can feel others' pain-- I am affected by emotional tone in a room, and I 'share' the pain with those experiencing it. What I cannot seem to do is PREDICT how emotion with make a person react. I can't guess at people's intentions or motivations. When I predict how a person may act toward me, I am usually wrong. I think this is tied into my ASD. I suspect that I am getting better about it, but I am still an easy target for anyone with a reason to use or manipulate me. I just want to help people. I want them to feel better. I want to fix what is bothering them. I must keep in mind that there are those that will take advantage of this. I know that I'm not the only Aspie woman with these traits.

 

[Sabrina]

I can tell you about my experience.

For most of my life I was very proactive looking to maintain a good relationship with my parents (I'm an aspie, married to an aspie, two aspie kids). But it all started changing little by little because I decided to be myself more and more, a few years ago. I changed my lifestyle, and started to take more decisions according to my beliefs and not my parent's. My parent's are status driven and I became a minimalist, started living a simpler life, and started taking my own, odd, decisions. Some of them were bad decisions, (money wise) and others were good decisions (for my mental and physical wellbeing).

Consequently, my parents changed their relationship with me. They didn't like my new, real me, without the status mask. So when they realized that they couldn't get me with their criticism, they went after my kids.

The day I left my 11-year-old daughter with my mom for half a hour, and I came back to pick her up, and she was IN TEARS because her grandma was making her feel bad about hefself (criticizing her for not socializing, etc), I decided that I'd had it. I started distancing myself from my parents, but I still thought that we could have Christmas together. Bad idea. They couldn't even treat us nicely for two days in a row. Same thing my two (single) sisters.

I was still keeping a relationship with them after that (it was distant; we even decided we were not going to go on vacation with them for obvious reasons, but I told them a socially-accepted lie: my husband had to work , we couldn't go). But soon after that, a distant cousin wrote me telling me that "I was so mean to my parents, that they were so special, that how it was possible that I was not letting my parents see my kids".

That was a huge lie: we even spent Christmas together with them. It had been awful, but I still thought back then, that it was important for my kids to share time with their grandparents and viceversa.

That's when I realized that my own mother was not only lying behind my back, she was turning everyone in my extended family against me. So, I decided to severe relations with them at that moment, indefinitely.

My recommendation: verify facts. The fact that it is your mother and that you love her, doesn't mean she is not capable of lying. Talk to your sister and listen to her own version of the story.

You mentioned there was a disparity in lifestyles between your sister and your mother. Maybe it's a similar situation than mine, but in reverse. Maybe your mother doesn't approve of the way your sister lives and spends her money, and is trying to make your sister look bad in the eyes of your niece, so your mother can look good. That happened to me, my mother told my daughter an unfortunate comment like that (among so many other things. I can relate with your sister when she said "don't get me started").
You also said your sister was "loaded", which makes me think that you are not comfortable with her money, or the way she spends it either. That too reminds me of my sisters, in reverse.

 

[Maiki]

Consequently, my parents changed their relationship with me. They didn't like my new, real me, without the status mask. So when they realized that they couldn't get me with their criticism, they went after my kids.

I think that for many of us (me included) there is such strong pressure to keep 'the family together' that we will hang in there--trying--to our own detriment. I was the same as you said Sabrina, I took so much abuse in the name of family... until it became clear that my children could be harmed. The mama bear came out then! As well as standing against using children as pawns in adult conflicts, I refused to let my kids watch me and learn that "you should just take it, for the sake of family harmony". I want my children to see me modelling the belief that we all deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. If we are not being treated that way, then-- family or not-- it is not okay.

 

[Peatsmoke]

Tricky painful territory. I'm a late diagnosed Aspie-- married and mum of 3. Growing up, our family probably looked to all outsiders as the quintessential functional, picture perfect version of a family. Upstanding professionals for parents. Very involved in community. Lovely home. Two boys and me, the girl in the middle, for kids. We were great students, church going, went on to successful careers of our own.
Pretty picture began to unravel when my mum became ill with an aggressive early-onset dementia. She lost her ability to use language before she lost her other mental faculties. I could write a novel about how my family of birth imploded, but the long story short--I emerged from it all enforcing full disconnection from my older brother. No one but myself and my mental health professionals will ever understand why I needed to sever all connections to him. While I feel sadness about the fact that he has subsequently blocked all attempts of mine to continue any contact with his own children (returned my gifts and birthday cards), I needed to take this step to protect myself and my own family. After decades of emotional abuse, I finally found the strength, self-worth and support to escape him. My surviving family members are actually somewhat supportive of my decision, even though they do not know the extent of what went on. Even within a family, realities and perspectives can vary, and often family members play unwitting or misguided complicit roles in maintaining dysfunction.
My point in sharing all this, if I have one, is to try to talk separately to the family members involved. Try to hear their perspectives without imposing judgement. Then, follow your instincts with regard to how you proceed. If your sister is unwilling or unable to speak frankly with you, then don't hesitate to follow up with concerns for her well being-- until your mind is at ease that she is able to act freely. Sometimes abuse is hard to see, even for those in the midst of it. I think that being an Aspie female, my life has been largely spent trying to please others, fit in-- at all personal cost, make peace, etc. I have enormous amounts of emotional empathy (it's my super power), but am lacking greatly in cognitive empathy. By this, I mean I can feel others' pain-- I am affected by emotional tone in a room, and I 'share' the pain with those experiencing it. What I cannot seem to do is PREDICT how emotion with make a person react. I can't guess at people's intentions or motivations. When I predict how a person may act toward me, I am usually wrong. I think this is tied into my ASD. I suspect that I am getting better about it, but I am still an easy target for anyone with a reason to use or manipulate me. I just want to help people. I want them to feel better. I want to fix what is bothering them. I must keep in mind that there are those that will take advantage of this. I know that I'm not the only Aspie woman with these traits.

Thank you for your thoughtful (and thought-provoking) reply. I'm really sorry to hear about your older brother; I understand completely the need to cut off all contact with a family member - that doesn't seem strange to me at all (I have some experience of this via my ex and her older brother).

What you say about your emotional vs cognitive empathy is absolutely how I am (I'm male, but I've noticed that my mind doesn't work in a particularly "male" way, if that's even a meaningful statement...). I share people's pain, and try (and try and try and try!) to fix it, although I have become better at spotting which people are likely to be dangerous to me. My sister, though, has never given the appearance of being like that; she's always cultivated a "tough cookie" persona, which of course could be a defense mechanism...

I know my mum can be very annoying, exasperating, frustrating, etc; she's really p***ed me off sometimes, even as an adult. I've just never experienced anything from her that would push me to cut off contact like that. But then, I don't have a kid, so I don't really know what she'd be like in that situation.

I agree that talking to my sister about this would be the ideal solution, but I know how she'd react if I brought it up (if she ever agrees to skype with me again, of course) - she'd be furious, and there would be no more contact, at least for a long time.

 

[Maiki]

Oh well... thanks for your reply and hope things work out.