am I´m getting fooled?

[Shaddock]

2 and a half week ago I asked a neighbor if she wants to have contact with me (walking in the park : P and so on (but friendship)). she is the tenant of the appartment, which will be my appartment in a few days. she agreed and after 2 weeks she gave me her number (2 weeks nothing). she said she was not home the 2 weeks, she has less time and don´t feel good at the moment (illness or whatever).

my thought was that maybe she only gave me her number, because she thinks I could be useful for her until she moved out. but I could not waited until she moved out, because then I would never had the possibility to contact her. and my thought was that we could have used the last weeks to have contact (but it was not).

she never talked with me in personal. only about the appartment. she never wrote with me personal. I only know her name and her age, nothing else. a few days ago I asked for her profession, but until now she never answered.

I have the big feeling that after relocation she will instantly block me/my number and ghost me.

I allowed her to use my cellar for her bulky waste, until she can dispose it. I am about thinking if I would deny her this permission (tomorrow she will clear the appartment and cellar and on monday is the official hand-over of keys (with the landlord)).

also she asked me for something about the energy provider and wanted me to do something. it was not a big thing, but it was senseless and I told her that. it makes me angry because she said she asked me because she don´t wanted to it to do on her own (but that this causes me to had to do the things she don´t wanted to do was probably no problem for her).

after I said "the things are not just about you", she answered me really unfriendly and not very empathic.

if she is fooling me, I really want to break up the contact previous and deny her to store her bulky waste. and I have to do this today, because tomorrow she clears the appartment.

complicate situation. maybe she is just stressed, but I can´t imagine that she does 3 weeks nothing or acts like she did, and then after the relocation she will be different. I don´t think that.

maybe she only said she was 2 weeks not home, so she don´t had to speak with me in personal. and because she gave me her number only after 2 weeks, I could not wrote to her too.

because of me she saves herself a monthly rent, because she resigned earlier and just because I can move into this appartment 1 month earlier than others, she does not have to pay the monthly rent.

I probably would have rejected my offer and said that I will only move 1 month in the future, so she has to pay the rent, but I really need this appartment and can´t wait any longer and also I am not a dick : D

I am thinking about if I should confrontate her today and say that I think she is fooling me. I feel like she is sitting in a chair with jetpacks under it. and there is a button in front of me and I am hardly thinking about if I should or shouldn´t press it. and if she is really fooling me I just want to say "GET OUT. YOU´RE FIRED!!" : P

 

[Hypnalis]

@Shaddock

Your default action should always be to stay polite. This is especially true when you're upset.

In terms of your post:

• There's no objective reason for such a dramatic exit. You have nothing to gain, and you might frighten her (which would be completely unacceptable behavior).
• You don't even have a reason to tell her you've lost interest. If neither of you follow up, there will never be any non-business contact.
• I also don't see any point in the way you turned down the request with the energy provider. And it seems that had a small but real downside. A polite refusal is always better than a rude one. If you don't understand the "protocols" for this, learn them ASAP - it's an essential life-skill.

 

[Shaddock]

well, thanks for your answer hypnalis. the way you describe is the way most people do, but I think its not the way I did so far and neither I want to go in the future.

I am direct and honest. I always want to make clear breakups and not "waiting until noone follow up."

but I still try to always be polite. being directly is not the same as "being unpolite."

for me the question is not how to do a breakup. the question is if I should breakup. I am unconscious. maybe she is unhonest, maybe she only got no time and feels stressed atm

if I don´t breakup contacts, the contacts will follow me in my mind until I do so, even without any real contact. when I breakup, I can finish it and can let it behind me.

 

[Homulilly]

I think this situation might be a misunderstanding.

2 and a half week ago I asked a neighbor if she wants to have contact with me (walking in the park : P and so on (but friendship)). she is the tenant of the appartment, which will be my appartment in a few days. she agreed and after 2 weeks she gave me her number (2 weeks nothing). she said she was not home the 2 weeks, she has less time and don´t feel good at the moment (illness or whatever).

I'm repeating my understanding of the situation. You have a neighbor who is about to move out of her apartment. After she moves out, you will move into the apartment. Right now you guys are neighbors. (Does that mean you two perhaps live on the same street?) 2 and a half weeks ago you asked her if she wanted contact, she agreed but didn't say/do anything more. Then after 2 weeks she gave you her phone number, and explained that the reason for not contacting you was because she was not home. Is this correct?

I need more context to interpret her intentions. During your initial contact with her 2 1/2 weeks ago, how was the situation like? Did you go to her apartment to speak with her or vice versa? Did you happen to see her somewhere in public? Did you specifically tell her you wanted to be friends? Did you ask her for her phone number during that encounter?

Most importantly, how much contact did you have with her before your contact with her 2 1/2 weeks ago? This is important for NTs to determine whether they can trust giving out their personal info and develop a deeper relationship. For example, NTs are very reluctant to give out their contact info to someone who they've never spoken to. Speaking for myself, I would not give out my phone number to a neighbor if we've never had a conversation (saying hi does not count), although the threshold for giving out contact info is different for each NT. If you were the one who asked for her phone number, it could come across as creepy because of all the sexual predators out there. Even if you meant well, your neighbor has no way of knowing that.

Then, 2 weeks later, she gave you her phone number. Did she go find you to give this info, or did you go find her? Or did you guys happen to see each other in public?

she never talked with me in personal. only about the appartment. she never wrote with me personal.

It's possible that she gave you her phone no. so you guys could mediate things during her move-out and your move-in, and not for friendship. It's common practice for NTs. But this does not mean she is trying to use you. Doing this tend to smooth things out between NT tenants because moving is chaotic.

I allowed her to use my cellar for her bulky waste, until she can dispose it. I am about thinking if I would deny her this permission (tomorrow she will clear the appartment and cellar and on monday is the official hand-over of keys (with the landlord)).

When she asked to use your cellar, how was the context like? For example, after she asked, did you immediately say yes? How did she respond? If you thought that you wouldn't like the bulky waste, but said yes, then she would've thought that you were ok with it. Anyways, if you really want to get rid of the waste and she needs to clean out the apartment, this sounds reasonable. Phrase it into something like "The bulky waste in the cellar is taking up more space than I thought, so it would be great if you clean it out first."

also she asked me for something about the energy provider and wanted me to do something. it was not a big thing, but it was senseless and I told her that. it makes me angry because she said she asked me because she don´t wanted to it to do on her own (but that this causes me to had to do the things she don´t wanted to do was probably no problem for her).

This is also common practice for NTs. If she felt like she would have trouble talking to the energy provider, it's acceptable that she asks someone within the social context of the apartment. Did you say exactly "it's senseless" or something similar? If so, coupled with "the things are not just about you," NTs definitely feel that this is mean. Usually the polite way to decline would be something like "I'm too busy to do so" or "I also have trouble talking to the energy provider." If you feel that this is like lying, you could just tell her that you didn't want to do it. Some people might not like it, but it's acceptable. Also, if you feel that she's relying on you too much, it's ok to tell her that. There is a limit where NTs feel reasonable on relying on others, especially if they aren't friends.

 

[Shaddock]

I'm repeating my understanding of the situation. You have a neighbor who is about to move out of her apartment. After she moves out, you will move into the apartment. Right now you guys are neighbors. (Does that mean you two perhaps live on the same street?)

everything correct. same street and same building.

2 and a half weeks ago you asked her if she wanted contact, she agreed but didn't say/do anything more. Then after 2 weeks she gave you her phone number, and explained that the reason for not contacting you was because she was not home. Is this correct?

yes. she said "in the next time I will bell at your door" and so I waited. 2 weeks after asking her for contact, there was a letter on my door (she knocked before, but I was in the bathroom), with her letter.

I need more context to interpret her intentions. During your initial contact with her 2 1/2 weeks ago, how was the situation like? Did you go to her apartment to speak with her or vice versa? Did you happen to see her somewhere in public? Did you specifically tell her you wanted to be friends? Did you ask her for her phone number during that encounter?

Most importantly, how much contact did you have with her before your contact with her 2 1/2 weeks ago? This is important for NTs to determine whether they can trust giving out their personal info and develop a deeper relationship. For example, NTs are very reluctant to give out their contact info to someone who they've never spoken to. Speaking for myself, I would not give out my phone number to a neighbor if we've never had a conversation (saying hi does not count), although the threshold for giving out contact info is different for each NT. If you were the one who asked for her phone number, it could come across as creepy because of all the sexual predators out there. Even if you meant well, your neighbor has no way of knowing that.

first my landlord told me on phone that the appartment of a tenant will be available soon. she told me the name of the tenant, so I went to her (that was her) and belled on her door. we only spoke about the appartment and very short. she let me in. the landlord told me to arrange a meeting with her (lets call her Anna (tenant, the person who I asked for private contact), the landlord and me. I did so.

we had the meeting (it was about the appartment). 2 hours after it I went to Anna again and asked her for private contact. you know the rest.

we spoke not much. I just asked her and nothing else. she asked nothing too.

Did you happen to see her somewhere in public? Did you specifically tell her you wanted to be friends? Did you ask her for her phone number during that encounter?

no we never saw each other in public. I specifically asked her if she wants to speak with me (explicit not because of the appartment, but in personal) and maybe wants to walk in the park for me, because of - if we find each other sympathic - for friendship. I did not asked for her phone number and also not for a concrete meeting (date/time). she gave me her number on her own afters 2 weeks.

yeah I understand what you say about NTs. but I don´t smalltalk and do like it was random, only to get real contact. I always ask directly out of nowhere and THEN, speaking (for example walking in the park) and get to know each other better.

there were persons who had no problem with that. they instantly met me and sometimes it turned into a friendship.

she first said "thanks, but I have a boyfriend", but that was not my intention. I said "no I just want friendship" and she said "Ok."

I don´t get why so many woman think that every man just wants to have sex with them. I had many platonic female friends and I don´t wanted anything more from the most.

but its okay if someone asks, so I can tell them that I have no sexual interest.

everyone needs to decide if he/she wants to be in contact with me. its not my decision. I just hate it when people say things they don´t mean honest. thats not fair. but I have no problem if anyone says "No, no interest."

It's possible that she gave you her phone no. so you guys could mediate things during her move-out and your move-in, and not for friendship. It's common practice for NTs. But this does not mean she is trying to use you. Doing this tend to smooth things out between NT tenants because moving is chaotic.

thats the thing I "fear." but then she would have been unhonest, because she said she wants private contact too and I explicit asked for that. I disagree with you. too be honest means that she should have said "we can talk about appartment but I don´t have interest in private contact."

well, I don´t care if NTs act like this. not all do. but it is still bad behavior in my view. when most people act badly, its still no argument for acting badly.

When she asked to use your cellar, how was the context like? For example, after she asked, did you immediately say yes? How did she respond? If you thought that you wouldn't like the bulky waste, but said yes, then she would've thought that you were ok with it. Anyways, if you really want to get rid of the waste and she needs to clean out the apartment, this sounds reasonable. Phrase it into something like "The bulky waste in the cellar is taking up more space than I thought, so it would be great if you clean it out first."

sry but I don´t know exactly anymore.

This is also common practice for NTs. If she felt like she would have trouble talking to the energy provider, it's acceptable that she asks someone within the social context of the apartment. Did you say exactly "it's senseless" or something similar? If so, coupled with "the things are not just about you," NTs definitely feel that this is mean. Usually the polite way to decline would be something like "I'm too busy to do so" or "I also have trouble talking to the energy provider." If you feel that this is like lying, you could just tell her that you didn't want to do it. Some people might not like it, but it's acceptable. Also, if you feel that she's relying on you too much, it's ok to tell her that. There is a limit where NTs feel reasonable on relying on others, especially if they aren't friends.

well I feel like I don´t want to be in contact with persons who act like persons you described. not every NT act like this and I don´t like this indirect behavior. it stresses me, it just sucks.

well I don´t feel able to act like you recommend to do and I don´t really want to. and there are persons who like how I be, my directness and honesty.

if I can´t talk directly and honest with someone, I never could be in friendship with this person. and with my friends I always spoke directly and it was never a problem, on the contrary.

I don´t like persons you describe and I don´t want any contact with them. they are complicated, irrational, stress me, no thanks. horrible. and if "Anna" is like that, I would be glad if contact with her would break up.

to conclude: maybe she is a nice person and acts in a way most people would not be afraid of, but I am/would be. but in all circumstances this would result in the fact that a friendship with her would make no sense not satisfying for me. and probably for her too.

 

[Shaddock]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding in the nature of the relationship you have with her. Being friendly neighbors and able to help each other out in a mutually beneficial way is different from being friends.

you´re right, but I think it is clear that I meant friendship, because it was clear that she is moving out early and it would not make sense to say "Hey, I know you move out in a few days, lets be friendly neighbors!", I asked her where she is moving too and I also said "I am asking because I want to know if it is possible to have a contact after your moving out (distance)." She answered which city she is moving to and the city is very near to me. So it would be no problem to hold up contact (if she wants to).

 

[Ayy]

Keep it minimal, It sounds as though any more will be inappropriate regardless of previous intent. Just let the situation die a natural easy death of professional distance don't worry about what happened, it is very small and over analysing will make the reactions worse for both of you because your heart remembers what you think a lot about

 

[Shaddock]

It really frustrates me. She said she wants private contact. But she don´t answer me, she never met me and never really talked to me. I hate that. Say something and do it or just shut up otherwise. Everything else is unhonest and unfair to others.

I want fair and real contact and I don´t want to be set on a waiting list, where MAYBE EVENTUALLY the person has some time for me and we meet each other.

If a person says something but does nothing, he/she should really get out.

I don´t care. she moves out early, nothing what I could say would change anything. I can say what I want to her (except for insults). And if she should talk to the landlord (which I don´t think) I could say that I asked her for private contact and she acted unhonesty to me, and the landlord won´t care about what his tenants do in private.

I know this feeling of mine. tomorrow will be the same and it will not end until I break up, because until this point it went too far and the things which happened (or not happened) destroyed my interest of contact.

I think I will break up in a few minutes.

is it hot in here or is it just me burning inside?

message is written, but I´m still thinking about if I want to send it to here. No insults, so no problems, but I know that she was a bit in contact with one neighbor next to her and I don´t want that she tell him that I am a bad person (in her view), because I don´t want stress. don´t know if she would or if she is still in contact with him.

or I just could say "sry I don´t want to wait any longer for contact getting in drive. I am no longer interested. I reject my proposal."

 

[Ayy]

My friend, I believe you're too locked in to this right now. Just take a break and step back from everything. Sleep on it and just let her go, no need for you to address how she made you feel, though it feels unfair and dishonest, it is not a problem anymore as she is leaving and doing anything now especially when upset will make a new problem. It'll solve nothing and just make you more upset. You're pissed off at the communication differences between neurotypicals and neurodivergents more than you are at the actual situation and it's borrowing that frustration to make you focus on it. It really doesn't deserve your time

 

[Homulilly]

everything correct. same street and same building.



yes. she said "in the next time I will bell at your door" and so I waited. 2 weeks after asking her for contact, there was a letter on my door (she knocked before, but I was in the bathroom), with her letter.



first my landlord told me on phone that the appartment of a tenant will be available soon. she told me the name of the tenant, so I went to her (that was her) and belled on her door. we only spoke about the appartment and very short. she let me in. the landlord told me to arrange a meeting with her (lets call her Anna (tenant, the person who I asked for private contact), the landlord and me. I did so.

we had the meeting (it was about the appartment). 2 hours after it I went to Anna again and asked her for private contact. you know the rest.

we spoke not much. I just asked her and nothing else. she asked nothing too.



no we never saw each other in public. I specifically asked her if she wants to speak with me (explicit not because of the appartment, but in personal) and maybe wants to walk in the park for me, because of - if we find each other sympathic - for friendship. I did not asked for her phone number and also not for a concrete meeting (date/time). she gave me her number on her own afters 2 weeks.

yeah I understand what you say about NTs. but I don´t smalltalk and do like it was random, only to get real contact. I always ask directly out of nowhere and THEN, speaking (for example walking in the park) and get to know each other better.

there were persons who had no problem with that. they instantly met me and sometimes it turned into a friendship.

she first said "thanks, but I have a boyfriend", but that was not my intention. I said "no I just want friendship" and she said "Ok."

I don´t get why so many woman think that every man just wants to have sex with them. I had many platonic female friends and I don´t wanted anything more from the most.

but its okay if someone asks, so I can tell them that I have no sexual interest.

everyone needs to decide if he/she wants to be in contact with me. its not my decision. I just hate it when people say things they don´t mean honest. thats not fair. but I have no problem if anyone says "No, no interest."



thats the thing I "fear." but then she would have been unhonest, because she said she wants private contact too and I explicit asked for that. I disagree with you. too be honest means that she should have said "we can talk about appartment but I don´t have interest in private contact."

well, I don´t care if NTs act like this. not all do. but it is still bad behavior in my view. when most people act badly, its still no argument for acting badly.



sry but I don´t know exactly anymore.



well I feel like I don´t want to be in contact with persons who act like persons you described. not every NT act like this and I don´t like this indirect behavior. it stresses me, it just sucks.

well I don´t feel able to act like you recommend to do and I don´t really want to. and there are persons who like how I be, my directness and honesty.

if I can´t talk directly and honest with someone, I never could be in friendship with this person. and with my friends I always spoke directly and it was never a problem, on the contrary.

I don´t like persons you describe and I don´t want any contact with them. they are complicated, irrational, stress me, no thanks. horrible. and if "Anna" is like that, I would be glad if contact with her would break up.

to conclude: maybe she is a nice person and acts in a way most people would not be afraid of, but I am/would be. but in all circumstances this would result in the fact that a friendship with her would make no sense not satisfying for me. and probably for her too.

Ah I see. The situation seems more complicated with what you've provided. One thing I'm pretty certain about "Anna" is that she probably wasn't against being friends at first, given that she approached you and gave you her phone number. Everything else after that is hard to say for sure since none of us experienced that first hand.

A speculation that I have is that maybe after some contact with you regarding the apartment, she didn't want to be friends anymore, but she is also trying to reach this decision. She might also have difficulties rejecting people, which leads to what you consider dishonesty and irrational. I have insights on why she does what she does, but I'm not sure if that's going to be helpful info or alleviate your stress.

she first said "thanks, but I have a boyfriend", but that was not my intention. I said "no I just want friendship" and she said "Ok."

I don´t get why so many woman think that every man just wants to **** them. I had many platonic female friends and I don´t wanted anything more from the most.

but its okay if someone asks, so I can tell them that I have no sexual interest.

A side note on this. As a female who was stalked/harassed at least once a year during the height of puberty, I understand where the caution comes from. This isn't against you personally. But sadly the world is full of predators, and some women just tend to stay alert.

I agree with @Ayy here, seems like the problem at hand is the communication differences between NTs and NDs, and it's just hard to reach a common ground in this specific situation. Maybe Anna's communication style is just too different for you guys to be friends. Take a break for now and come back later, then decide what you want to do with a clear head.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Human behavior does not always follow logical progressions, Some people by their nature are ambiguous. Do not over analyze. My term for people like this is flakes.

 

[Shaddock]

I think you convinced me. I think I say just say nothing to Anna right now and wait how and if she does something.

You're pissed off at the communication differences between neurotypicals and neurodivergents more than you are at the actual situation and it's borrowing that frustration to make you focus on it.

you really could be right

I agree with @Ayy here, seems like the problem at hand is the communication differences between NTs and NDs, and it's just hard to reach a common ground in this specific situation. Maybe Anna's communication style is just too different for you guys to be friends.

yeah really could be

Ah I see. The situation seems more complicated with what you've provided. One thing I'm pretty certain about "Anna" is that she probably wasn't against being friends at first, given that she approached you and gave you her phone number.

there was not really a reason for her giving me her phone number. she just could have waited until moving out, if she would not be interested. after 2 weeks I thought its over, until I saw her letter with the phone number. I was really suprised.

sadly a few days ago another neighbor gave me her number (I asked her too : D), but I don´t know there were some misunderstandings and we ended up with not following the thing with private contact. but she said that she really likes me and my open behavior and I should go on with that. also I told her that I have autism and she said she knows what that is. and she said we always could speak as neigbors if there would be something. I found her very authentic and sympathic.

A speculation that I have is that maybe after some contact with you regarding the apartment, she didn't want to be friends anymore, but she is also trying to reach this decision. She might also have difficulties rejecting people, which leads to what you consider dishonesty and irrational.

this really could be. nice, I haven´t thought of this.

I think other people are often as frustrated with me, like I am with them.

I have insights on why she does what she does, but I'm not sure if that's going to be helpful info or alleviate your stress.

you really can say what you think, if you want : D

A side note on this. As a female who was stalked/harassed at least once a year during the height of puberty, I understand where the caution comes from. This isn't against you personally. But sadly the world is full of predators, and some women just tend to stay alert.

I understand.

really thank you guys : ) especially ayy and homulilly : ) you are very intelligent and empathic. and your answers helped me a lot.

sometimes I think for some people I am like their kid. they love me, but sometimes they are really frustrated and don´t know how to circumvent with me : D some time ago a friend said to me "I´m really fond of you, but sometimes I have to resist the craving of hitting you : D"

 

[Homulilly]

also I told her that I have autism and she said she knows what that is.

Seems like she really wanted to be friends at first. It could be that after interacting with you, she realized that you two just aren't on the same page on communications.

Edit: I might've misread what you wrote. Do you mean you were talking to Anna here?

you really can say what you think, if you want : D

I was going to provide a possible reason for why she does "dishonest" and confusing things. Many NTs, women especially, were conditioned at a young age to think that rejecting other people is mean/bad/whatever. This usually isn't explicitly said, but comes up in all kinds of social interactions. Some people as they grow older notice this and decide to learn how to directly reject. Anna unfortunately might not be one of them, and thus uses the strategy of not responding. But I mean, all speculations here, I can't be sure.

Anyways, good luck working this out!

 

[Aspychata]

Yes. I start out passively rejecting. But several times, it hasn't worked. So then you have to say no because stalking behavior has happened this late in my lifetime around jobs. I have had men be really rude because l turned them down. Like l owed them something. It's happened in the last three jobs l have had. So hopefully the poster will understand being female comes with it's own set of problems.

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

@Shaddock

• I also don't see any point in the way you turned down the request with the energy provider. And it seems that had a small but real downside. A polite refusal is always better than a rude one. If you don't understand the "protocols" for this, learn them ASAP - it's an essential life-skill.

Where do you learn these "protocols"?

 

[Hypnalis]

@PinkPhilodendron

Sorry, that's too big a question for me to answer in a forum. The possible responses have to be "tuned" depending on the social relationship (family, friend, colleague, stranger), and (among other things) the nature and size of the request, so there's no simple "ND-friendly" answer.

But FWIW the paragraph above is an example

This search gave some useful results. NT-centric of course, but it's a starting point:
how to refuse a request politely at DuckDuckGo

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

@PinkPhilodendron

Sorry, that's too big a question for me to answer in a forum. The possible responses have to be "tuned" depending on the social relationship (family, friend, colleague, stranger), and (among other things, the nature and size of the request, so there's no simple "ND-friendly" answer.

Bur FWIW the paragraph above is an example

This search gave some useful results. NT-centric of course, but it's a starting point:
how to refuse a request politely at DuckDuckGo

Thank you! I just thought I'd ask in case there is like a book or something for autistic people with the most common everyday-used protocols. Because I would not even know where they exist and wheree they don't so it's hard to search if you don't know what you are exactly searching for.
We have something called "Knigge" here, but I Don't know which things are outdated and which still remain and the explanations are often shallow...

 

[Hypnalis]

There are probably books (try "etiquette"), but I've never read one.

Aspie/HFA wasn't a thing when I was younger, so there was (AFAIK) no reference material. I had to figure things out for myself.

I'm comfortable with my ability to "speak/act NT" (not perfectly of course, but good enough so while there might be useful books and articles now, I've never bothered looking.

PS: This Knigge? "Über den Umgang mit Menschen" (1788)

 

[PinkPhilodendron]

I am impressed that you reached such a good level of acting NT without further material. I got better over the years but sometimes I still p*** people off without meaning to, so I am not yet where I would like to be.

Yes, that Knigge there are actually versions in modern language but I doubt all the etiquette in there is still used.

 

[Fino]

The way I'm reading it, there's nothing break up. You made vague plans with her and she backed out? That happens all the time. People often say, "Yeah, let's do this sometime!" and never do it. I don't know why. It's always confused me.