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Anyone overcome narcissism?

Ephraim Becker

Ephraim Becker

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Are there anyone who got over narcissism in this forum? My parents are saying that I’m narcissistic and that I’m very wrapped up in myself all because I’m jealous of people in my neighborhood having an overwhelming a lot of privileges than me which makes me rigid and disrespectful to my parents. I’m very unpopular and get blocked by people I know a lot. I’m persevering over exploring the United States and going to Yeshiva in Israel which everyone in my neighborhood my age is coming back from already. I feel like I missed a lot of experiences. I annoyed people in camp by saying things over and over again and looked at other people’s medications in camp to see if someone’s on methylphenidate so I can get a support group and people were mad about these behaviors. I don’t want to be narcissistic. What do I do and how do I explore my dreams?
 
It's so good to hear from you again, Ephraim! Everyone missed you alot!

So the path you are seeking is a simple one. Gratitude overwhelming for all that you are and all that you have, and your privileges in society, over and over again. One describes how blessed he is, and in what ways.

You learn to praise and venerate the significant people in your life. That is your parents and family and kin and all that. And your rabbi, and your temple that you have and the people there. And you try and tell everyone that you live with and work around, why they matter to you so much. And you make a point of thanking those special people for specific things. Be authentic.

Why do I love you so much. That's the question of the righteous man.

Now that you appreciate, next you learn to explain yourself. And in doing so you learn to apologize, and seek to be forgiven by those you have hurt. This is called making amends.

Now you learn to appreciate them for what they are, and learn to cherish that, and praise. Always praise. Look always and forever for the finest things about others and learn to Express your love and appreciation as Art.

Tell those people that you admire what you like about them, and why, and then say it all over again.

Your mind is a powerful tool. Your focus on gratitude may well shine the light of truth on narcissism.

To be narcissistic is to be childish, and ignorant, and small in your heartsong, and petty. Become that which you know yourself to be!

The very best version of you is waiting just ahead. Learning to admire them all, for all that they are, will dispel narcissism, in general.
 
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Think l overcame a narcissistic spouse and l dreaded the final 3-4 years. But l find that l am very distrustful now.
 
@Ephraim Becker,
I am surprised to hear that narcissism can co-exist with autism.
A functioning narcissist would be fairly adept at winning highly-sought, general approval.
That does not describe many autistics.

Are you sure that your parents are not mistaking "poor theory of mind" for narcissism?
Delays in executive function development might also present as a "self-centeredness" that is not consistent with one's physical age.
 
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Crossbreed said:
@Ephraim Becker,
I am surprised to hear that narcissism can co-exist with autism.
A functioning narcissist would be fairly successful at winning highly-sought, general approval.
That does not describe many autistics.

Are you sure that your parents are not mistaking "poor theory of mind" for narcissism?
Delays in executive function development might also present as a "self-centeredness" that is not consistent with one's physical age.
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As someone can relate really well to the executive function or dysfunction for that matter and other behaviors I've had that were self protective. Just doing things differently or doing something in a way people don't understand that doesn't even directly step on anyone's toes besides maybe the medication part and repeated sayings of something to people was at worst just annoying to them. Even with the parent I got along with that raised me the most there was still times he got very upset at me and I had no idea why at the time since I didn't do anything wrong or directly hurtful. NT's can wrongly interpret all of that as narcissism or simply being a bad person on purpose and believe me I have dealt with real narcissists. Whole different animal. The amount of times I have been baffled myself of the way people viewed me that was so off that it about crashed my brain in confusion has been a theme throughout my whole life.
 
Pieceofmind said:
...he got very upset at me and I had no idea why at the time since I didn't do anything wrong or directly hurtful. NT's can wrongly interpret all of that as narcissism or simply being a bad person on purpose and believe me I have dealt with real narcissists. Whole different animal. The amount of times I have been baffled myself of the way people viewed me that was so off that it about crashed my brain in confusion has been a theme throughout my whole life.
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Agree.

However, I do see where this type of behavior could be misinterpreted: Narcissistic personality disorder - Symptoms and causes

I do think narcissism and autism can co-exist. Personally, I do not think I am a "narcissist" per se, but I do have some narcissistic traits, per the above definition. I do think as @Crossbreed said, there may be some mistaking "poor theory of mind", but sometimes, especially with so-called "higher functioning" autistics, those that would be described as having above normal intelligences, that narcissistic behaviors can be a coping mechanism to deal with underlying anxieties and low self-esteem issues. At times, I have been told I can come off as a bit "over confident" and seem a bit "aloof" towards others,...the interesting thing, it really isn't a conscious thought or with intent,...it just gets interpreted this way. I haven't really sat down and examined my personal issues with this nebulous behavior phenomenon, but it does appear to be some degree of overlap here.
 
Neonatal RRT said:
Agree.

However, I do see where this type of behavior could be misinterpreted: Narcissistic personality disorder - Symptoms and causes

I do think narcissism and autism can co-exist. Personally, I do not think I am a "narcissist" per se, but I do have some narcissistic traits, per the above definition. I do think as @Crossbreed said, there may be some mistaking "poor theory of mind", but sometimes, especially with so-called "higher functioning" autistics, those that would be described as having above normal intelligences, that narcissistic behaviors can be a coping mechanism to deal with underlying anxieties and low self-esteem issues. At times, I have been told I can come off as a bit "over confident" and seem a bit "aloof" towards others,...the interesting thing, it really isn't a conscious thought or with intent,...it just gets interpreted this way. I haven't really sat down and examined my personal issues with this nebulous behavior phenomenon, but it does appear to be some degree of overlap here.
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On coping mechanisms that's what I meant by "proctect behaviors" like a certain rigidity in a schedule of doing something to prevent this or that from mentally/physically spiraling out of control that would lead me down a worse road for my well being that wouldn't be good fro anyone. Like I eat only a certain set of things at certain times or sometimes because this interferes with this I have on my schedule I won't participate but it's not as simple as just not wanting to do something either since these tie into my well being and I'm fully aware of what it looks like to other people but they'll never quite understand. Though I have over the years gotten better with being much more open like that despite the ways my body and mind are fragile.

I have also gotten the over confident and aloof descriptions from people, in fact I have had a handful of times where people have told me things like "Why do you think you're better than everyone else?" and I would have no idea what they were talking about and I have never even interacted with said person much at all. Me seeming more cold to people on a lighter observation is very common though and it's good that people let me know so I can explain. I do seem more emotionally detached from others often when I don't mean to be and I'm not as expressive outwardly with emotion which does fluctuate a bit from day to day. There obviously can be overlap just like with anything else but if you're thinking about this at all I don't think it's a big issue as much as there may be things for you to work on which is true for anyone. Who hasn't had times to look back on and say they should have done something different because the current circumstances got the best of them.
 
I would caution, not to buy into any labels that frustrated family members apply. It takes a lot of education and training to properly diagnosis a person. When you are speaking in terms of mental health diagnosis, turn to a professional.

I'd view their diagnosis/label of you it with polite inner skepticism, and get a professional diagnosis from a professional of your choosing (not theirs). Seems like your family members are frustrated.

If there is one thing I have learned, it's no one is normal. If these family members went for an evaluation with testing, a few labels would very likely be applied to them.
 
I do not believe people with ASD can be narcissists. Narcs are almost always successful. They will leach YOUR energy and end up on top. Sometimes they leave a mass of carnage behind, planned carnage and sometimes they just wring you dry and end up on top. Either way, narcs are on top. They will have it no other way.

Narcs trivialize people and use them and your suffering is their gain. People with ASD are the VICTIMS of that carnage. Narcs lie and manipulate when you are just trusting. Then, when you implode with your suffering front and centre, then YOU are called ND?

Science shows that great suffering reduces empathy. This is NOT the same as causing pain. This is not the same as not giving a crap. If you are hurt and can no longer can use sufficient frontal cortex energy to show empathy, YOU are not the problem. The ones who hurt you are the psychopaths.

If you are astoundingly successful, @Ephraim Becker , and that as a result of harming others, lying to others, using others, and sapping them dry to get on top, then sure, you may have ND. But based on the hell you have endured, I highly doubt it.

It is astounding to me how people trivialize our trauma and then, when we implode into it, we are accused of having ND. Resist that label. You are not ND.
 
I'm also in the camp that has a hard time believing NPD and ASD can co-exist.

Must have at least five of the following nine per the DSM V:

  • A grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g. exaggerating achievements and talents, expecting to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements): < Exaggerating achievements and talents. I see this is wilful misrepresentation/lying. Not a trait people with ASD are known to have.
  • Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. < Maybe the brilliance or ideal love part from what I've seen on autism forums. Most autistics could give a rip about unlimited success, power or beauty in my opinion.
  • Believing that they are "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) < Wanting to "rub elbows" only with highly successful or prestigious people. A desire to "keep up with the Joneses". I don't think so.
  • Requiring excessive admiration. < No.
  • A sense of entitlement (unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations) < Maybe.
  • Being interpersonally exploitative (taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends). < No. Autistic people are not known for being conniving and manipulative and "weaving webs" of deceit for their own gain.
  • Lacking empathy: unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others. < Ok.
  • Often being envious of others or believing that others are envious of them. < I'm not envious of others. "Others" have been the source of most of the problems I've had to deal with in life. No envy.
  • Showing arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. < I don't think so.

I've just recently come to the realization, however, that it's very probable that my dad and sister are classic NPD. This has been a very harsh realization. It explains many things and now I have to figure out what that means in my life and in relating to the damage it's caused me in mental and emotional abuse and the damage it's caused to my family.

There is no "cure" for NPD and as one would expect, the success rate at someone "overcoming" NPD is dismal since they're people who don't think they have a problem and in fact think the opposite.
 
Magna said:
I'm also in the camp that has a hard time believing NPD and ASD can co-exist.

Must have at least five of the following nine per the DSM V:

  • A grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g. exaggerating achievements and talents, expecting to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements): < Exaggerating achievements and talents. I see this is wilful misrepresentation/lying. Not a trait people with ASD are known to have.
  • Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. < Maybe the brilliance or ideal love part from what I've seen on autism forums. Most autistics could give a rip about unlimited success, power or beauty in my opinion.
  • Believing that they are "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) < Wanting to "rub elbows" only with highly successful or prestigious people. A desire to "keep up with the Joneses". I don't think so.
  • Requiring excessive admiration. < No.
  • A sense of entitlement (unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations) < Maybe.
  • Being interpersonally exploitative (taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends). < No. Autistic people are not known for being conniving and manipulative and "weaving webs" of deceit for their own gain.
  • Lacking empathy: unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others. < Ok.
  • Often being envious of others or believing that others are envious of them. < I'm not envious of others. "Others" have been the source of most of the problems I've had to deal with in life. No envy.
  • Showing arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. < I don't think so.

I've just recently come to the realization, however, that it's very probable that my dad and sister are classic NPD. This has been a very harsh realization. It explains many things and now I have to figure out what that means in my life and in relating to the damage it's caused me in mental and emotional abuse and the damage it's caused to my family.

There is no "cure" for NPD and as one would expect, the success rate at someone "overcoming" NPD is dismal since they're people who don't think they have a problem and in fact think the opposite.
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My parents were saying that i'm narcissistic for years and just came to accept it last night. Did you see that chart? The highlighted is what I have.
 
True narcissistic personality won't be here asking about how to fix themselves. They have the inability to see themselves as broken. This is a true narcissist. That makes it virtually impossible to treat.

So the fact that you are here asking how to get better kinda throws you out of the narcissistic campsite. Congratulations.
 
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Aspychata said:
True narcissistic personality won't be here asking about how to fix themselves. They have the inability to see themselves as broken. This is a true narcissist. That makes it virtually impossible to treat.

So the fact that you are here asking how to get better kinda throws you out of the narcissistic campsite. Congratulations.
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Thank you. But my parents still won't take away the narcissistic label even after I told them that "I think i'm narcissistic".
 
A lot of people use the term narcissistic to mean selfish or self absorbed, they don't tend to be referencing a diagnosable disorder when they do that. I think @Skittlebisquit offered some useful advice about focussing on what you can be grateful for, for most of us there's plenty.

Do you have depression @Ephraim Becker ? That's an issue that can make people seem self absorbed. What may help you when you are hoping to change an aspect of yourself?
 
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