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Are Nihilism and Cynicism "two leaves on the same plant?"

watersprite

watersprite

lost
V.I.P Member
Not an emergency lol. I was just having a 'friendly discussion' with someone about this and am curious as to what other's input. So naturally, I came a/c. :)

To clarify: We were discussing the philosophical definitions and underpinnings. One person thinks Nihilism is derived from Cynicism, the other person disagrees with that, and claims the motivations for the beliefs are disparate, though some overlap is acknowledged.
 
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no i think nihilism is just anger and depression and selfishness in general ,where you can be cynical about some issues but not cynical about everything
kestrel said:
Not an emergency lol. I was just having a 'friendly discussion' with someone about this and am curious as to what other's input. So naturally, I came a/c. :)
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Cynicism is a perspective based on an assumption of the fallibility of human beings. Nihilism is a perspective based on abandoning moral principles and religious precepts because life has no cosmic meaning.

Technically they are separate perspectives.

Yet are they mutually exclusive of one another? I don't think so. The irony being that IMO the fallibility of humanity is a core aspect of our cosmic existence. That on this plane of existence, we're supposed to be flawed. ;)
 
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The people I have known who identified themselves as Nihilists were pretty scarey people. I have not experienced that with cynics. Nihilists are so down on everything they might do something unpleasantly drastic at any time. I always felt as if being around them was akin to walking on eggs. It was not a good experience.

I much prefer cynics. They can be very funny when talking about their cynicism.
 
I see it as -
  • Cynics have doubts that humans can behave morally and that they will even try to appear to be behaving morally (for self gain) while actually doing the opposite - "hell hath no fury like a vested interest posing as a moral principle".
  • Nihilists believe that no action is inherently good or bad - ie: there is no intrinsic morality (it's a human creation) or alternatively - "it's all bs and then you die".
 
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I'm an existential nihilist, in that I believe that (my) existence has no inherent value. I'm not angry or depressed, I just feel like very few people actually matter in the big picture.
Yes, I have an impact on people that surround me, but unless I do or discover something extraordinary I doubt I will be remembered in a few hundred years. And I'm okay with that.
I think murder is wrong, I think euthanasia and abortion are not. I don't believe life (or anything) in itself is sacred, I do believe in being respectful of others, but in some circumstances I believe ending a life (or preventing a new one from entering this world) can be merciful.
 
Bolletje said:
I'm an existential nihilist, in that I believe that (my) existence has no inherent value. I'm not angry or depressed, I just feel like very few people actually matter in the big picture.
Yes, I have an impact on people that surround me, but unless I do or discover something extraordinary I doubt I will be remembered in a few hundred years. And I'm okay with that.
I think murder is wrong, I think euthanasia and abortion are not. I don't believe life (or anything) in itself is sacred, I do believe in being respectful of others, but in some circumstances I believe ending a life (or preventing a new one from entering this world) can be merciful.
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I think i agree. I'm a doubtful nihilist.

Try to be what i thoought was realistic but am called cynical.

Or sometimes wonder why can't we all get along even though its all meaningless?
A deluded nihilist.
 
Alaska said:
The people I have known who identified themselves as Nihilists were pretty scarey people. I have not experienced that with cynics. Nihilists are so down on everything they might do something unpleasantly drastic at any time. I always felt as if being around them was akin to walking on eggs. It was not a good experience.

I much prefer cynics. They can be very funny when talking about their cynicism.
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Do you wear shoes?
 
Presumably you were discussing the modern usage of the words, and not the philosophical categories (which are distinct and don't match the modern words usage).

cynicism: an inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest. synonyms: skepticism, doubt, distrust, mistrust, suspicion, disbelief;
pessimism, negativity, world-weariness, disenchantment

nihilism: the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless. synonyms: skepticism, negativity, cynicism, pessimism; disbelief, unbelief, agnosticism, atheism

Clearly, there can be overlap between the two, but they are different.
 
For instance, I can be cynical, but never a nihilist.

And if we are motivated by self-interest, so what? It can be an unthinking reflex to think that is selfish and wrong. I love cats... I run a website helping people with their cats because it gives me pleasure to do so; I love thinking of people getting along better with their cats because of my efforts. It gives me a purpose.

My romantic relationship is built on me getting pleasure from these varied transactions, and likewise for my partner. We enjoy the same things, pool our resources, and make each other laugh.

Selfish? Well, such makes me happy. To the point where if I do something that makes someone I care about unhappy, that makes me unhappy.

Which is how our brains should work, I think. Fallible, certainly, but not hopeless.
 
I've been tempted by both paths, especially when all the negativity and bad experiences start piling up. Not in a degenerate sort of way - despite everything now and in the future, I've still that last bit of morality and it shows - but it does get hard to maintain faith in the human species at times.

I hear of people who find meaning in life at the very last moment long after others have already done so. As for myself? I'm still struggling to find it.
 
Nihilist here and: no
It is possible for both but I'd say no. I wouldn't say that I also experience cynicism or that the two go hand in hand.
 
Is there a definition for the view that the world and everything has no inherent meaning but still keeping your moral values?
 
I couldn't begin to define any of this nay better than has been done. Strange part is I was listening to a teaching by Alan Watts just a little while ago...

I find him interesting for some reason (maybe its because he seemed to think so differently), but I keep a very open mind. He was discussing this sort of thing maybe without using the exact words. In short he was saying, everything around us is an illusion created by what we think as individuals, and as a collective consciousness. They over lap, collide, intertwine, and equal what we call a life experience... And what we see as humanity moves forth as this changes. It was very interesting... just as this post is. : )
 
xDominiel said:
Is there a definition for the view that the world and everything has no inherent meaning but still keeping your moral values?
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Immanuel Kant (wiki, standford philosophy) probably comes the closest because his approach to morality does not depend on understanding a larger meaning to existence.

Though I don't think the term "Kantian" is a thing, I have used it to describe my own philosophical position. Usually to blank stares because these days hardly anyone knows who Kant was, let alone read his books, particularly Critique of Pure Reason and Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals. BTW, both of which are available in the public domain. Though they are not an "easy read."
 
Chance said:
I couldn't begin to define any of this nay better than has been done. Strange part is I was listening to a teaching by Alan Watts just a little while ago...

I find him interesting for some reason (maybe its because he seemed to think so differently), but I keep a very open mind. He was discussing this sort of thing maybe without using the exact words. In short he was saying, everything around us is an illusion created by what we think as individuals, and as a collective consciousness. They over lap, collide, intertwine, and equal what we call a life experience... And what we see as humanity moves forth as this changes. It was very interesting... just as this post is. : )
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Grew up reading alan watts. (The book against knowing who you are- misremembered title probably)
You should try krishnamurti. Although his voice is annoying.

alan watts didnt put his hand in a blender.
Recognising the limits of the illusion is important :)
 
Fridgemagnetman said:
Grew up reading alan watts. (The book against knowing who you are- misremembered title probably)
You should try krishnamurti. Although his voice is annoying.

alan watts didnt put his hand in a blender.
Recognising the limits of the illusion is important :)
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I am very open minded, but I am very "sane" in what I allow to stick. I know its way out there, yet it isnt in some weird sense. I think more than anything he tried to blend the physical and the non-physical. Of course the blender wouldn't be an issue in the non-physical that surrounds us, but we are temporal in the physical so that blender is very real indeed. That was actually his point, but he was trying very hard to get people to look past it also.

I'm not much of a Nihilist or a Cynic... so much... I look for answers not a dark abyss of finality.
If things go on forever, then I want my part in that, it sounds fun to me, a blunt nothingness not so much : )
 
tachyon said:
I see it as -
  • Cynics have doubts that humans can behave morally and that they will even try to appear to be behaving morally (for self gain) while actually doing the opposite - "hell hath no fury like a vested interest posing as a moral principle".
  • Nihilists believe that no action is inherently good or bad - ie: there is no intrinsic morality (it's a human creation) or alternatively - "it's all bs and then you die".
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is the undercover story of nihilism a refusal or inability to take responsibility for creating meaning in life?
 
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