I would have loved to join the debate club and work to defend a position even if it weren't my choice. However, when conversation without a moderator turns to discussion of pros and cons, then to debate and finally, to arguing, I really don't want to participate. If the battle really heats up I don't like to stay within ear shot. I was recently drawn into an online political debate (I would never get into a face to face similar situation--I would have beat a hasty retreat) and I immediately regretted that I said anything. I learned that the participants actually enjoyed arguing. Is my behavior on the Aspie side?
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Are you argumentive?
- Thread starter Aspieistj
- Start date
Perkinsj88
Well-Known Member
It depends, I would say Yes..I definitely 'enjoy' arguing; well...I enjoy winning and being right. BUT, I will not argue a losing side, when I 'debate' I make sure it's one I can win. MOSTLY THOUGH I avoid talking to people all together, so my arguments are few. Normally I will not speak to other people unless absolutely required (e.g. - Wanna get your car tire off my toe?!). If the person pisses me off they will wish that they'd been the one avoiding talk. I find that anger replaces my anxiety if anyone provokes me in any situation.
Perkinsj88
Well-Known Member
The point is to educate all the 'normal' folk about the details they sometimes overlook. Plus I get the satisfaction of being right...makes me all warm and fuzzy lol.
What I was trying to say earlier is normally I avoid confrontation as well, it is only after someone really gets under my skin that I let them have; I enjoy the after effects of argument though not the actual argument I suppose.
Blade_Runner
Guardian of the Princess of the Enchanted Forest
Oh my, I can be so argumentative - especially with my parents (not to an alarming degree). If I feel threatened then my shields go up 100% and my verbal torpedoes are firing away. I have this tendency to know that I'm right; not all the time but only when I feel attacked personally. Looking back at arguments in the past, it was my way of trying to regain control when it seemed I had lost it. Of course, now, I'm working on looking at what people say differently and trying to understand that what they say isn't necessarily and personal attack. :idea:
I am... but not so much online. I don't see the point in arguing with a person that is miles away for most part. That, and the fact that some people just tend to stay anonymous and think they can get away with whatever they say. I guess one can see trolling as a way of "arguing" nowadays.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with using a screen name (I mean, I'm using one right now), but I always felt that online arguing is so inherently different from having an actual argument with someone in real life.
I've found that arguments online often end up like the eye of the storm. I have an argument with someone and then people gather and pick sides. And before you know it, it's 50 people engaged in an all out verbal brawl. I have had a lot of these situations where no one knew who was referring to what since people kept smashing the reply button over and over before one could actually finish an actual defense that as well written. Also, I've found that people, even if they like to argue, or even choose to get engaged in said arguments, have pulled this "TL;DR" attitude (for the ones not familiar with internet lingo; Too Long, Didn't Read). I can come up with the most elaborate point of view, that might be totally spot on, but internet is, in my opinion a terrible medium for it. A lot of people wont even sit down to read a decent plea if you're arguing. They just discard an opinion because it's not interesting to them to spend time on, but will keep on arguing, even if you actually debunked their point of view multiple times in a single post. I will vouch for a clear and readable post. A post with no white spaces and just a wall of text does not invite to read. If you can pull up an argument with good spelling, grammar, if needed numbering or bullet points and enough white spaces to make it inviting, I wouldn't mind sitting through it. It seems that some people don't even understand that concept. To me it looks like if someone would be speaking to me and not taking a single breath blurting everything out at a fast pace.
In real life, however, you sit down, and listen to everyone (and preferably just a one on one conversation) let that sink in and form your own side of the story. There is pretty much no walking away. Well, there is, but that is considered rude. It's equally rude online, but there seems to be less etiquette about it. It feels that in real life you have this obligation to finish an argument, where online, people can log off, and just stop caring about it at all. While someone might get all riled up over a ****** argument, and someone just said it for the shock factor.
Similarly, I guess I avoid confrontation online a lot. There's no point to that. Online I'm more of a "let's agree to disagree" type of person. That works best. People can still say what they want and I might or might not bite. If I were to argue back and forth until I got my way I'd be going on for ages. By now I know that a lot of my personal ideologies wont get a lot of people to back me up. But as I said in a different thread here "popular opinion does not make it the right one". I'm fine with not marking my territory everywhere, heck... in a lot of cases I don't even care to be right, since it's a subject I know nothing nor care about at all. Some subjects just seem so mundane... and while I understand these are serious issues, I just can't get over the fact that these things persist to be topics that need to be discussed ad infinitum and still show relatively little progress with humanity.
In real life I can, and will be argumentative. Most likely that's the only verbal interaction people get out of me. Maybe it's the aspie brain that thinks some stuff doesn't make sense and where I have to question it. I'm not going to settle with "just because". Especially since I'm well aware that people rarely walk out from an argument in real life. It's probably also where I make other people feel awkward and question why they do what they do more.
What I can't stand is when people argue and exercise power because of a position they're in. It's the arguments I had with my dad, where it came down to "this is my opinion and if you don't like it, you can pack your bags and get out of my house". That's not an argument at all. That's just him getting off on having power over someone. And these kind of arguments exist within employment as well. I've had many issues with supervisors who had this same idea of how to finish an argument. Suffice to say, it's one of the reasons I had some issues with keeping jobs. In real life I wont have anyone piss over me (proverbially speaking) and mark their territory because they think they can do so (and like to do so). And I guess similarly, there's arguments with people who only hear what they want to hear and just don't listen at all.
That being all said; I don't have to pick the winning side. I pick the side I like most. I like to stick to my principles, even if some of my ideas might border on some kind of utter madness that goes against all reasoning (well, it doesn't go against my reasoning). If I like it, I will defend it.
Also on the note of arguing on- and offline. It's interesting how some people often say things online they don't say offline. I mean... really? If you wouldn't dare to say it out loud offline for chance of repercussions, why would you say this online? It's the fact there's no fear in being online like this, where people have an opinion on everything no matter how ill-informed they are. It's where people plea for "freedom of speech", while with the internet there's also a certain degree of "freedom to get educated and informed", yet the latter is easily waived. Yes, I can understand people don't have time to read every article and get informed about everything. But then just don't mix in with the discussion at hand and move on (or STFU, if you will)... there's a reason I stay absent from some topics discussed on this forum (aside from moderating duties).
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with using a screen name (I mean, I'm using one right now), but I always felt that online arguing is so inherently different from having an actual argument with someone in real life.
I've found that arguments online often end up like the eye of the storm. I have an argument with someone and then people gather and pick sides. And before you know it, it's 50 people engaged in an all out verbal brawl. I have had a lot of these situations where no one knew who was referring to what since people kept smashing the reply button over and over before one could actually finish an actual defense that as well written. Also, I've found that people, even if they like to argue, or even choose to get engaged in said arguments, have pulled this "TL;DR" attitude (for the ones not familiar with internet lingo; Too Long, Didn't Read). I can come up with the most elaborate point of view, that might be totally spot on, but internet is, in my opinion a terrible medium for it. A lot of people wont even sit down to read a decent plea if you're arguing. They just discard an opinion because it's not interesting to them to spend time on, but will keep on arguing, even if you actually debunked their point of view multiple times in a single post. I will vouch for a clear and readable post. A post with no white spaces and just a wall of text does not invite to read. If you can pull up an argument with good spelling, grammar, if needed numbering or bullet points and enough white spaces to make it inviting, I wouldn't mind sitting through it. It seems that some people don't even understand that concept. To me it looks like if someone would be speaking to me and not taking a single breath blurting everything out at a fast pace.
In real life, however, you sit down, and listen to everyone (and preferably just a one on one conversation) let that sink in and form your own side of the story. There is pretty much no walking away. Well, there is, but that is considered rude. It's equally rude online, but there seems to be less etiquette about it. It feels that in real life you have this obligation to finish an argument, where online, people can log off, and just stop caring about it at all. While someone might get all riled up over a ****** argument, and someone just said it for the shock factor.
Similarly, I guess I avoid confrontation online a lot. There's no point to that. Online I'm more of a "let's agree to disagree" type of person. That works best. People can still say what they want and I might or might not bite. If I were to argue back and forth until I got my way I'd be going on for ages. By now I know that a lot of my personal ideologies wont get a lot of people to back me up. But as I said in a different thread here "popular opinion does not make it the right one". I'm fine with not marking my territory everywhere, heck... in a lot of cases I don't even care to be right, since it's a subject I know nothing nor care about at all. Some subjects just seem so mundane... and while I understand these are serious issues, I just can't get over the fact that these things persist to be topics that need to be discussed ad infinitum and still show relatively little progress with humanity.
In real life I can, and will be argumentative. Most likely that's the only verbal interaction people get out of me. Maybe it's the aspie brain that thinks some stuff doesn't make sense and where I have to question it. I'm not going to settle with "just because". Especially since I'm well aware that people rarely walk out from an argument in real life. It's probably also where I make other people feel awkward and question why they do what they do more.
What I can't stand is when people argue and exercise power because of a position they're in. It's the arguments I had with my dad, where it came down to "this is my opinion and if you don't like it, you can pack your bags and get out of my house". That's not an argument at all. That's just him getting off on having power over someone. And these kind of arguments exist within employment as well. I've had many issues with supervisors who had this same idea of how to finish an argument. Suffice to say, it's one of the reasons I had some issues with keeping jobs. In real life I wont have anyone piss over me (proverbially speaking) and mark their territory because they think they can do so (and like to do so). And I guess similarly, there's arguments with people who only hear what they want to hear and just don't listen at all.
That being all said; I don't have to pick the winning side. I pick the side I like most. I like to stick to my principles, even if some of my ideas might border on some kind of utter madness that goes against all reasoning (well, it doesn't go against my reasoning). If I like it, I will defend it.
Also on the note of arguing on- and offline. It's interesting how some people often say things online they don't say offline. I mean... really? If you wouldn't dare to say it out loud offline for chance of repercussions, why would you say this online? It's the fact there's no fear in being online like this, where people have an opinion on everything no matter how ill-informed they are. It's where people plea for "freedom of speech", while with the internet there's also a certain degree of "freedom to get educated and informed", yet the latter is easily waived. Yes, I can understand people don't have time to read every article and get informed about everything. But then just don't mix in with the discussion at hand and move on (or STFU, if you will)... there's a reason I stay absent from some topics discussed on this forum (aside from moderating duties).
starfox64_0
Active Member
KO, I believe that is the best post I have read yet on this forums. 
Anyways, I am a really argumentative person in real life. I typically (Like KO) don't argue online because I just don't find it worth it though. There are a lot of people who don't understand me or just don't even want to where I live (including my family which some of you guys know about THAT fun situation) and it leads to multiple arguments a day. I'm constantly arguing with teachers at school or fellow students. Mainly because I am "weird, awkward there must be something wrong with him what is it, why does he act like that." All the students at my school have been trying to pin me with something for a while now, or just think I'm an odd person. This leads into multiple arguments about how they treat me, or about how they do this or do that because I don't understand. I typically tend to be the one who "either you do all the work or you do no work at all" in group projects but then they never give me directions that I can understand when they tell me to do something because they always do these vague verbal instructions to me and I get loss and confused and they start yelling at me calling me an idiot and retarded and stupid and just plain weird, or my favorite case of where they want me to fix the project because I told them they were doing it wrong and wouldn't listen to me until the final day and on the final day they decided to let me fix it (which required taking the project apart and trying to put together something that took 5 class periods for them to put together in 30 minutes) and thankfully I managed to get it done because it was something that had to do with robots and computers and I can build that stuff faster than most people can read the directions.
Like I said, I am typically highly argumentative with people where I live because there is only one autistic person in my town and he is two grades below me, along with there being no Asperger's people. So I tend to just float around trying to survive in a NT system when I am not one. :banghead:
Anyways, I am a really argumentative person in real life. I typically (Like KO) don't argue online because I just don't find it worth it though. There are a lot of people who don't understand me or just don't even want to where I live (including my family which some of you guys know about THAT fun situation) and it leads to multiple arguments a day. I'm constantly arguing with teachers at school or fellow students. Mainly because I am "weird, awkward there must be something wrong with him what is it, why does he act like that." All the students at my school have been trying to pin me with something for a while now, or just think I'm an odd person. This leads into multiple arguments about how they treat me, or about how they do this or do that because I don't understand. I typically tend to be the one who "either you do all the work or you do no work at all" in group projects but then they never give me directions that I can understand when they tell me to do something because they always do these vague verbal instructions to me and I get loss and confused and they start yelling at me calling me an idiot and retarded and stupid and just plain weird, or my favorite case of where they want me to fix the project because I told them they were doing it wrong and wouldn't listen to me until the final day and on the final day they decided to let me fix it (which required taking the project apart and trying to put together something that took 5 class periods for them to put together in 30 minutes) and thankfully I managed to get it done because it was something that had to do with robots and computers and I can build that stuff faster than most people can read the directions.
Like I said, I am typically highly argumentative with people where I live because there is only one autistic person in my town and he is two grades below me, along with there being no Asperger's people. So I tend to just float around trying to survive in a NT system when I am not one. :banghead:
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Like varying manifestations of empathy, I suspect being argumentative is yet another trait which has many "shades of gray" for an Aspie.
I'm very selective about being argumentative. Prefer not to be if I can help it. Otherwise it just seems like a waste of emotional energy, and can be physiologically toxic.
In the workplace I have always strayed away from being argumentative for any reason. It served me well in a corporate environment. Saw too many people do that watching them go down in flames. None of them appeared to be autistic that I recall...
I'm very selective about being argumentative. Prefer not to be if I can help it. Otherwise it just seems like a waste of emotional energy, and can be physiologically toxic.
In the workplace I have always strayed away from being argumentative for any reason. It served me well in a corporate environment. Saw too many people do that watching them go down in flames. None of them appeared to be autistic that I recall...
I didn't learn I am an Aspie until after my parents had died. It was suddenly clear to me that my father was an Aspie and I really wish I could tell him that. I felt much better about myself once I learned I actually had a recognizable condition. About my father, who was far more Aspie than I, he ALWAYS argued with everyone. He was driven to support the opposite side of an issue and would go on for hours arguing and driving people crazy. I once asked him why he always had to disagree and he said it made the conversation more interesting. Um--interesting for whom? I know of only 2 people who ever chose to spend time with my father and be his friend. Not even his family could tolerate him very well.
Yes, you are definitely on the Aspie side. Aspies are too smart to waste their time arguing. Aspies want to explore, learn, discuss, and find solutions. Arguing is in direct contrast of an Aspies aspirations, pun fully intended.
I hate confrontations, confrontations with aggressive people make me take several steps back and at no time am I interested in confrontations. I have a hate of people that love to argue, that love to confront others.
To me there is nothing worse than a confrontational person.
tlc
The Mackinac Bridge and U.P. is my happy place.
No way. I can't stand arguing or confrontation. If someone wants to argue I'll just walk away. Even on forums, I'll post everything I want to say about a topic, then leave it be. Unless new things are brought up that are interesting and don't involve arguing, then I might say a thing or two more. Sometimes things don't come out right but I don't like to say things to hurt people. So often I don't say anything at all in person. How can someone feel good winning, if the other person is going to have a bad attitude toward you over it anyway? I'm in the school of "why can't we all just get along?"
Was as a child, less so as a teenager, and at some point realized that even if you win an argument through irrefutable logic and sound evidence, people are not logical and act more based on emotion. They usually do what they were going to do anyway. At that point, the attraction of arguing vanished for me. Now, unless I see no way out of it, I avoid it like the plague.
gouldgrl
Well-Known Member
I consider myself argumentative, even though I don't always confront people whenever I see an "opening" for a debate. I will often carry on the debate in my head (where, of course, I always win!). On occasions when I do initiate a debate of some kind, I find it difficult to keep my emotions in check. I become extremely nervous, animated, and self-conscious. I can get kind of loud, too, without being aware of it. Still, I often have a hard time not saying something.
Just the other day, I was peacefully demonstrating on the street, and a young woman approached me and challenged my position--in a civil and respectful way. Nonetheless, as we debated this particular issue, I became flushed and nervous, as if I were under attack! God knows what she thought was happening to me!
umbrellabeach
Well-Known Member
I don't like arguing at all and I rarely start arguments, but if someone starts one with me, I usually respond. Just today I got into an argument on YouTube about whether or not autism is a disease. -_- I can't believe it's 2014 and people still think that.
You are right, autistic people are very talented people but I am used to the fact that others will judge what they are not capable of. I hate arguments, really really hate arguments. Will never be good at arguing: do you know why? Arguing is based on the fact that one person wants to force their opinion onto another person. Anything forceful I absolutely detest, arguing is often used to just hurt another person for no apparent reason.
But if someone attacks me and starts to argue about some stupid stuff, which is exactly what one stupid young punk did, would love to whop that bastard's ass, then I will stand my ground and tell them exactly what I think and what I know is right.
I believe that I am, I don't back down when I know I'm right. Gets me in trouble at work a lot...
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