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Asbestos Concern

M

mw2530

Well-Known Member
I have some concerns regarding asbestos at my parent's farm. Does anyone here have knowledge/experience dealing with asbestos and the potential dangers/risks?

An old farm building fell down a year or two ago during a storm. Sometime after that, my brothers and I along with my dad spent some days pulling the building down. The building was not very large - it was attached to another larger shed that is still standing. We pulled the building remains to an area in an old pasture that we have used to burn up down trees/branches, etc. We recently had a fire to burn it along with trees that had fallen down the past few years. Vast majority of the fuel for the fire was dead or fallen trees, but the building was in there too. We believe that there was some rectangle shaped insulation boards that were in the fire which we suspect to have contained asbestos. There are a few of these insulation boards still attached to the outside of the still standing shed, but I believe two or three ended up in the fire. Size wise, guessing they were about 2x3 feet or maybe 3x4 feet size.

As I read more about asbestos risks, I learn that it is not dangerous unless it starts falling apart or it is disturbed. The dust is what is dangerous when it is disturbed, and the scary part is the dust is generally completely invisible when airborne. Fire does not get rid of the asbestos - probably is the worst thing you can do with it since it probably releases the fibers into the air. Health impacts can take decades before they appear.

The fire already happened so can't do anything about that. But I don't know if I should be concerned about the surrounding area being contaminated with dust now. My parent's house is probably only 300 feet from the fire. Wind was blowing somewhat towards the house during fire. Is dangerous levels of dust now in their house? Did it get on our clothes and shoes and bring it into the house or my car? Did it settle all over the pasture or in our yard? Is the remaining ash from the fire dangerous? I don't know so then I worry. I don't think asbestos is something to blow off or mess with. Nonetheless, my dad, with no concern in the world, said he took the tractor and pushed together the remaining debris that did not burn up. Likely kicking up the dust again.

My dad does not seem worried about it at all. My brother also does not seem very concerned, but I'm not sure he is aware of what the risks are. So ultimately it feels like I am the only one in the family who is thinking about it. I tend to catastrophize things, so I'm not sure if I am overblowing the situation. Not sure how much is my irrational brain or if there is actually a real risk to be concerned about. I'm just not sure what I should do, if anything. I usually go to my parents house once a week.
 
mw2530 said:
The dust is what is dangerous....
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That's the most important thing to consider, and consider it in every single move you make with asbestos.

Wear a breathing mask while working with it.
Working on wet days is better, or hose it all down and wet it before you start working with it.

Best way to dispose of it is to bury it, but do it properly. At least 3 feet of clean soil covering to topmost part of your waste. Also mark this spot on a map so that future property owners know not to dig it up. Most farms keep such a map of their property showing where water and power lines are under the ground, a very handy thing.

 
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We had to do this when we moved into our home (1853 construction, updated in 1927 and 1941). You can get DIY test kits or official ones. The one we got had us swab three areas of concern and send it into a lab. I can't remember how much it was, and the prices have probably changed, if not test procedures. USD$20 - $25 it seems like. It'd be worth it sounds like for the particulate risk, just to be sure.
 
mw2530 said:
There are a few of these insulation boards still attached to the outside of the still standing shed, but I believe two or three ended up in the fire. Size wise, guessing they were about 2x3 feet or maybe 3x4 feet size.
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I missed this line the first time I read through - it's not a lot of material you're talking about here, so like your father I wouldn't be overly concerned. Certainly bury any pieces you can still find in the ash pile and bury them deep enough that they won't get exposed again in a hurry but don't go stressing over it so much.

It's not like the dust is radioactive or anything, it's just dangerous if you breathe too much of it in.
 
Its also a good idea to paint over intact insulation boards to keep them from weathering -- keep the fibres sealed in.

There's asbestos everywhere in most Canadian buildings built before the 90's.

If you ever need to clean up dust that is too extensive to just wipe up with a damp cloth after mistint with soapy water, use a certified hepa vacuum with a disposable bag or container and good seals at every join. And like @Outdated said, wear a hepa mask. The disposable kinds are fine.

It's actually less concern to be breaking up asbestos containing materials outdoors because the airborne fibres will disperse rather than remaining at stready concentration in the same area of air-space, dispersing only very slowly with incoming and outgoing air. The less concentrated the fibres, the fewer around for you to breathe in, the lower the risk should be.

Asbestos isn't something you need to be terrified of if it's not friable, but you shouldn't trivialize the risk either. It's a thing that there really isn't any safe level of exposure for -- some people suffer absestosis or get asbestos-related cancers from very minimal exposures, but most don't; And others who are regularly exposed to quite a lot of it get lucky and never develop any related disease. The thing is you don't know which category you and anyone exposed might belong to so it is best to be cautious.

It isn't poison but because it is microscopic it takes a long time to settle once airborne and is easily kicked up into the air again when its all over the ground. The harm it does is mechanical -- when it gets into your digestive or respiratory system, it tends to persist, your body cannot break the fibres down easily or at all ...causing very very long-term inflammation and possible scarring, and with the tissue damage increases the risk of cancers.
 
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the_tortoise said:
Its also a good idea to paint over intact insulation boards to keep them from weathering -- keep the fibres sealed in.
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Excellent tip.

One of the cheapest and best options is a clear water based polymer coating used to seal concrete floors where ever internal floors are uncovered concrete - factories, car showrooms, etc. That stuff lasts for decades.
 
Before the dangers were known, asbestos mill workers were in a fog of dust all day. The above suggestions are good, but your concern is out of proportion. There are many worse dangers on farms these days, and a lot of them are being sprayed deliberately.
 
My brother (now 75) spent a fair amount of time in the US Navy doing "lagging". A term describing the application of insulation, which in his case involved the use of asbestos and all the dust created in the process.

Compounding that exposure was that he didn't successfully quit smoking until in his early 60s.

He's always thought that he will die of cancer....which has yet to happen.

How dangerous is such exposure? The first thing that comes to mind is the name Johns-Manville.

https://www.mesotheliomafund.com/asbestos-trusts/johns-manville/
 
I have been exposed to asbesto's a number of times over my career just life maintenance guys blowing out brake's.
on a coil line 50 years ago, not losing sleep over it Life is about risks many you cannot avoid, If you second guess every time you will have a boring life, be anxious all the time which in itself will cause more damage, shortening your life. Downward spiral. not worth it.
 
The issue with asbestos is that it can travel deep into your lungs and take decades to cause asbestosis, which is the end stages of the process where the asbestos destroys the lung tissue and you can no longer breathe.

There are lots of cases where people have lived long healthy lives working in high asbestos polluted environments. One example is the cast and crew of the Wizard of Oz where it was used in a scene where it was snowing.

So its a bit of a dice roll as to whether or not something bad will happen.
 
Chances are I was not standing close enough after all dilution is the solution. Enjoying my life , unlikely I'll make eighty even then only 50% chance for the rest of us.
 
These days in Australia we've got a lot of court cases trying to determine levels of liability for workers installing stone kitchen and bathroom bench tops.

And of course - companies are now trying to better market themselves around that. This company makes benches out of real stone instead of "reconstituted" stone and they claim their workers are safe:

Which Benchtops Don’t Cause Silicosis?
 
Outdated said:
I missed this line the first time I read through - it's not a lot of material you're talking about here, so like your father I wouldn't be overly concerned. Certainly bury any pieces you can still find in the ash pile and bury them deep enough that they won't get exposed again in a hurry but don't go stressing over it so much.

It's not like the dust is radioactive or anything, it's just dangerous if you breathe too much of it in.
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As far as I know those pieces were all there was, but it is possible there was more. Do you think there would be asbestos fibers in the ash itself, or would it be identifiable as part of a larger piece that did not burn?

I don't really trust my dad to be reliable in terms of accurately determining the proper level of concern, because he tends to never worry about anything to the point that it is sometimes dangerous. I also don't think he is well aware of the seriousness of asbestos exposure, especially when the something that is dangerous is also invisible. As an example, when I asked if he disturbed any more of the insulation panels that are still attached to the shed, he stated that he hadn't but if he had, you would see them on the burn pile. In other words, even though he now is aware that the panels likely contain asbestos, he was not going to change his behavior in any way. So that is another challenge of the situation is trying to work with someone who is so careless about the potential risks. The risks are basically not on his mind and generally will not take small actions to mitigate risks if it results in a minor inconvenience to him or creates more work or costs money.

I do understand what you are saying though in that it may not be worth getting overly stressed about it because the exposure level may not be high given the relatively small amount of asbestos material. I think that is what you were getting at. I appreciate your advise and input.
 
Shevek said:
Before the dangers were known, asbestos mill workers were in a fog of dust all day. The above suggestions are good, but your concern is out of proportion. There are many worse dangers on farms these days, and a lot of them are being sprayed deliberately.
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Yes I do agree there are many other risks, such as from excessive use of pesticides. Yes, it is possible my concern is higher than necessary, but the risk from asbestos does seem like something that can be harmful even with short term exposure.
 
Ronald Zeeman said:
I have been exposed to asbesto's a number of times over my career just life maintenance guys blowing out brake's.
on a coil line 50 years ago, not losing sleep over it Life is about risks many you cannot avoid, If you second guess every time you will have a boring life, be anxious all the time which in itself will cause more damage, shortening your life. Downward spiral. not worth it.
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I appreciate your input and understand what you are saying in that it can be harmful to constantly be worried about potential risks. And lowers quality of life. But at the same time there really is no upside to taking risks with asbestos. So in that case, it makes sense to take steps to minimize risk when possible. As opposed to taking a risk of starting a new job where there is potential that it could be a good fit or a bad fit.
 
I have had plenty of industrial experience/exposure/training with and around asbestos. Generally, it’s considered as dangerous as nuclear waste, but that is simply not true.

Asbestos is only potentially dangerous when it becomes airborne. It can be inhaled and stay in your lungs forever. BUT….. it’s only dangerous in large quantities over extended periods of time. I’m going to get people here saying I’m wrong but think about this: Automobile brake parts are made from asbestos. All of the brake dust from millions of cars goes into the air in crowded cities every day. Yet the main effect from asbestos exposure is mesothelioma, and it only really effects the miners who spend all day underground in the mines where they’re blasting it out with dynamite.

The small amount you would be exposed to during your project will have zero effect on your health. If you’re worried about exposure, just wet it all down with water. It’s literally dust and it can be held in place or rinsed away with plain water.

The way we drill through asbestos doesn’t even involve a mask. We use shaving cream on the drill bit. That’s how Cal OSHA (California Occupational Health and Safety) standards require drilling operations whenever asbestos is suspected. It keeps it from getting ’dusty’. Then it’s wiped up with a wet paper towel and put into the trash.

Get s hose and rinse it all down once. All of the asbestos dust will be gone, but it wouldn’t hurt anyone even if you don’t.
 
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