ASD and personality

[King_Oni]

Recently on another aspie forum the following idea got "sparked" through a thread about employment, disclosure and accomodation.

It got me wondering about the human being behind the condition. Afterall, we are not our diagnosis, we're actual people with a personality, preferences, moral standards and then some, yet often those can be colored because of our AS.. and furthermore, for some it might be hard to diverge from said personal preferences because of difficulties changing (or perhaps even finding adequate support to go through suitable change).

So this is the post I ended up posting;

As much as some people don't want special consideration for their AS (and that's perfectly fine) it makes me wonder if my (or someone else on this forum) workplace issues are solely AS issues. I'm well aware that I have a strong personality and a pretty pro-active attitude when it comes to addressing things (basically, anything that bothers me does become the proverbial elephant in the room and I will address it accordingly). Plenty of people on the spectrum whom I know (including real life friends) aren't like that. Which makes me think that the "issues" that I bring aren't AS issues on it's own, but rather personality traits that are motivated by perceptions because I'm on the spectrum.

I guess people might see it as "it's not your AS acting up, you're just being an utterly impossible person to deal with on a personal level" (or in more simple terms "you're being an ass").I don't want to get into the argument whether it's just to act like that. And I must add, I'm not acting like that on purpose, but just because things genuinely bother me.

So all in all, it's what makes us different individuals. It's not just AS that forms us, yet there's an inate focus that AS could and should be accommodated in it's textbook form.

I'm not even sure how functional I'd be if you take the AS issues out. Much like another user (on that other forum) pointed out, I'm not one for sunlight, so if possible I'll wear shades or ask for a spot where this issue is less prevalent. That's a sensory thing and often attributed to AS. A simple example as dealing with the radio at work and having difficulties dealing with that because the music is not of your preference and thus will affect how well you function because it gets on your nerves is a personal thing. I don't mind music, but I don't mind MY music. And I have no interest in being exposed to someone elses. Intolerant you say? Yup. And I don't even care how intolerant it is. I don't see how exposing someone to something he doesn't like is remotely humane. So either play something everyone likes (which is a hard thing to do) or just all sit around with earphones on/in. Both that stance of being intolerant as well as preference of music to feel motivated and productive can be attributed to personality and preference. Obviously, the more you end up on the fringes of what's acceptable in a workplace the harder it gets altogether (I guess that's where not fitting in starts). But all this has nothing to with AS. What might be AS here is that one might have trouble adapting with the necessary evil to fit in. That's when AS issues go onto a deeper level, and those can hardly be accommodated at all, yet they do pose a problem.

So with it's interesting in that if you ask someone (perhaps even more likely, as an NT) "what do they do to accommodate your personality at work?" they will give you a weird look. You're there for a job and thus you need to adapt to fit in. That's what I've been told plenty of times when it comes to employment... I've even heard it in schools. But what if your personality is so intertwined with "special needs"? Afterall, we're not empty shells with just AS in there. We're people with experiences, ideologies, views, expectations, goals and so on. Does one need therapy to stamp out every notion of personality so that only the special needs are left and can be addressed? Totally ignoring the fact that such practices might be frowned upon in general.

So, thoughts on AS vs. AS intertwined with personality when it comes to support?​

 

[Tarragon]

Just a couple of thoughts....

I think this might be a variation of "do we do what other people do and blend to fit in, or do we stand out like a sore thumb?" with the asd making it harder to blend socially perhaps.
(Actually, how is a sore thumb standing out? Just realised how silly that phrase is!!!)

Maybe we are all more suited for jobs where we get to be ourselves. This is hard! Self employment is the easier option. And/or choosing a job where our
personalities get to be an asset is the ideal. Anyone (asd or nt) in the "wrong job" will suffer, perhaps asd people cope less well?

NT's might find it easier to just switch off/tone down their personalities to just get the job done? In sure asd people can too, but it requires much more effort.

Our personalities are all individual, and its tempting to generalise and say as asd people our personalities are more "interesting" than NT, but that's not true. (Though perhaps not all of the time? )

Maybe the question is too focused on issues to "jobs". As people, we are all different. Asd can't be blamed for all our quirks. We are all ultimately responsible for our own faults

I do think that the number of jobs suited to us are much more limited than for a "typical" nt. It makes it harder. The whole thing is geared socially towards them obviously.

We can't hide behind an asd mask all of the time though. If we are grumpy and irritable then perhaps that's just our own quirk

As for removing our own individual personalities to leave just the textbook asd issues - sounds a bit like asking us to have a lobotomy?!! Kind of depressing to think that in order to have a job and earn a living you have to not only put your asd issues aside but you have to supress your very individuality too! No wonder its so hard to get and keep a job! I mean, 8 hours a day being a zombie just to be acceptable to others? That's asking way too much!!

Maybe this is why I don't work well with others....

 

[King_Oni]

Maybe the question is too focused on issues to "jobs". As people, we are all different. Asd can't be blamed for all our quirks. We are all ultimately responsible for our own faults

I do think that the number of jobs suited to us are much more limited than for a "typical" nt. It makes it harder. The whole thing is geared socially towards them obviously.

Oh, I'm sure it is more focused on "employment". I've never heard my girlfriend, friends or parents tell me to "get my act together". The ones that judge you are mostly employers (even if they judge by simply not hiring you) or ones involved with jobs (social services, disability office).

As for removing our own individual personalities to leave just the textbook asd issues - sounds a bit like asking us to have a lobotomy?!! Kind of depressing to think that in order to have a job and earn a living you have to not only put your asd issues aside but you have to supress your very individuality too! No wonder its so hard to get and keep a job! I mean, 8 hours a day being a zombie just to be acceptable to others? That's asking way too much!!

Perhaps it does sound like a lobotomy... though half a century ago that procedure wasn't frowned upon as much as it is now.

But all things considering, I can't recall the number of times I've heard stories (including personal experiences) where it just seemed a therapist couldn't deal with personality traits and see through them in order to get to the core of the problem (and in our case that would be ASD).

Long before I got my diagnosis, I've had sessions with therapists where they thought I was a difficult person, just because I tend to go against the establishment in general. That has nothing to do with being on the spectrum. Though granted, the reasons why I do so, might be spectrum-inclined. But on the surface it would seem I'm someone who just wants to cause a scene for the heck of it.

It's interesting you bring up the entire issue of being a "zombie" 8 hours a day just to be acceptable to others... and how it's asking too much. I totally agree. On a related note, I once had a brainfart (that ended up in one of my blogs on AC) where I questioned how reasonable it is/was for someone on the spectrum to not only do the job as per job description but on top of that also be social, present the correct body language (in social context as well as towards customers), have the same frame of mind as NT peers... you're doing at least 2 jobs at the same time for the same pay... social behavior in all it's nuances that aspies tend to struggle with, should in no way become an assumption that it's included when you hire someone. Also reminds me of the argument I had with a therapist where I called him out to define "friendly" as a unwritten requirement when it comes to certain jobs. Again, assuming that everyone has the same basic understanding of social behaviour, regardless of background, and in our case, neurodiversity... it's silly and short-sighted at best.

No wonder many of us end up calling in sick with a burn out if we ever land a job.

 

[Sem]

I don't think it s personality all that much. People don't like dealing with our requests for support/accommodations. I know that when I don't have support at work or have to deal with supervisors who can't do their jobs my brain functioning goes down. If it continues to go on, then I start to really not do well. This is why I am starting my own business. Everything will suit me and how I work best, no nonsensical rules, only people I can tolerate and when I can't I can address it with them (if they are aggressive, do not follow the dress code, etc.).

 

[gonzerd]

As for removing our own individual personalities to leave just the textbook asd issues - sounds a bit like asking us to have a lobotomy?!! Kind of depressing to think that in order to have a job and earn a living you have to not only put your asd issues aside but you have to supress your very individuality too! No wonder its so hard to get and keep a job! I mean, 8 hours a day being a zombie just to be acceptable to others? That's asking way too much!!

I'm far too depressed today to write anything, but I've been wanting to post this somewhere, and this seems like a good place...

 

[mama_lotus]

I love Bukowski. I'm sorry you're down.

Follow up. The office did not burn down. My insulation is being installed tomorrow. I am glad I didn't say anything like "I hope you restore your office quickly"