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Asperger's in Norway.

Swords

Member
Hello all,

I am new to the forum, and have recently been diagnosed with Asperger's.

I am an Irishman that lives in Norway for a few years now.

I am wondering if there is anyone here from Norway, that I can ask specifically about how workplace facilitations work, and any other tips on how to navigate NAV in relation to this disability?

Thank you.
 
Hello, I'm a little unsure how NAV will handle you, since you are Irish and have only lived there for a few years. What's your status in Norway, you're an Irishman who travelled there to work? Or have you moved to Norway permanently?

Workplace facilitations, I think it's common for many workplaces to bend over backwards for their employees. So you will be treated good I think, both with and without AS.
 
Hello, I'm a little unsure how NAV will handle you, since you are Irish and have only lived there for a few years. What's your status in Norway, you're an Irishman who travelled there to work? Or have you moved to Norway permanently?

Workplace facilitations, I think it's common for many workplaces to bend over backwards for their employees. So you will be treated good I think, both with and without AS.
Thank you for your prompt response.

So, I have been living in and working in Norway for a few years, and I look to stay permanently.

Well, the DPS that was evaluating me, around 2 months before they finished up, they put me in touch with a NAV Job Specialist, and she had communication with me, my psychotherapist and my employer. Now, at this point, it wasn't particularly clear I had Asperger's, especially to me, but they were at least floating the prospect. The NAV Job Specialist, looked to understand what kind of workplace facilitations I needed, and she drew up a list. With my permission, she met with my supervisor.

Coincidentally, at the same time, I had submitted a complaint to my supervisor about a team lead that had been name calling me in private, as they were frustrated with me, and I guess my Asperger tendencies. I requested that I change team, and submitted a complaint to my supervisor in writing.

Anyways, the NAV Job Specialist meets with my supervisor, and the supervisor is not particularly happy with the workplace facilitations, or the conversation with the NAV Job Specialist. She told me, he didn't seem very interested, and looked to not give straight answers about what he might be able to do etc.

NAV Job Specialist goes on vacation for a week, and during this week, my supervisor asks for me to meet with him. During this meeting, he reads down through all of the suggestions (headphones, desk placement, maybe dimmed lights), and he smiles and says that he thinks I should just work from home, and should do so immediately. He says that I am allowed to do so on a trial basis, and after the trial, "my employment going forward would be re-evaluated". I asked him what he meant by this, and he said that my contract would have to be changed in some ways. It was at this point I started to document the meetings, and sending summaries of the meetings to the supervisor.

So, I worked from home for a few days, but I felt like something wasn't right, and the NAV Job Specialist was returning soon, and I would discuss the matter with her. I decided that I would return to the office, and I sent an email beforehand explaining a union rep needs to be present, indicating that working remotely isn't something that we asked for, and it would be a large change to make, considering the workplace facilitations we requested.

When I returned to the office, I met with the union representative, and I asked that he be present for any meetings I have with the supervisor on this topic going forward. The supervisor tried to corner me, to get me to meet with him alone, but I held firm, and told him I was going to get the union rep, which then made the supervisor run off. He then returned a couple of hours later, visibly angry that the union rep was present. He didn't talk to us about workplace facilitations, he asked me to submit a written complaint about the colleague from weeks ago directly to HR. I asked him, why the complaint I had sent to him weeks ago wasn't sufficient, and he wouldn't answer.

After the NAV Job Specialist returned, she revealed to me that the supervisor had been sending her emails. He basically said that they cannot implement any of the facilitations, that I would have to work remotely, and that my ability to do my job remotely was greatly diminished for some reason (I'm a software engineer, working on a team with other remote people...). He then demands that she get her supervisor to write her a letter to indicate what her job description is.

Anyways, after this, the supervisor avoids meeting with us, and keeps cancelling meetings on what workplace facilitations can be handled, he won't even talk about it if you were to speak with him. He seems really angry during these meetings. We eventually have to get the union lawyer involved, and he gets in touch with the NAV Job Specialist, and she brings him up to speed on the correspondence the supervisor has been sending.

The supervisor, in the meantime, looks to present my return to the office as a breach of conduct... Saying that I didn't provide enough warning before returning, etc. Which is strange, because there was nothing to indicate to me, that I had to provide a warning before coming into the office, or did anyone tell me why I could not come into the office. And, from we could tell, looked to represent the situation to upper management as an insubordinate employee. Upper management and HR booked an appointment with me, and I became very stressed out, and suicidal.

The union lawyer then sent an letter to the company, making it clear, that in light of the workplace facilitations requested, demanding that an employee works from home, would be seen as not facilitating anything, and also isolating an employee against their wishes and changing the stated work location on their contract. The meeting with upper management rolls around, and they don't say anything really, and the supervisor very begrudgingly accepts to have a conversation with me about what workplace facilitations can be performed. The supervisor was still very resistant, and I only got a change of desk and headphones in the end.

The whole ordeal, made me leave on medical leave for work related stress, and I have to say it was completely humiliating, and I view it as an attempt by an employer, of using my workplace facilitation as a guise, to separate me from the person I complained about, and perhaps, look to change my contract and force me out of the company.

It is after this whole ordeal, that I just don't know what to expect anymore about workplace facilitations, and if I can expect to work in an office again in Norway. When I talk to NAV, they are just very matter of fact, that the employer must make reasonable facilitations, but I am terrified of going through the same thing again somewhere else.
 
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Wow. That sure spiralled out of control. Not much I can say about the job situation really, but as I understand it you have moved to Norway so you live there and plan to continue doing that. And you were diagnosed at the DPS. And you are already in the NAV system. One thing you may or may not know, NAV is a bureaucratic monster. And right now NAV is not doing great. They have too much to deal with. So one thing that could happen is that if you lose that job, NAV might just push you through the system quickly and put you on disability benefits, to get you out of their way. That happens to many people. And AS is considered to be a disorder that makes it difficult for you to work and the next step on the NAV ladder if you or they fail to find work, is disability benefits.

But I don't know, you have a NAV handler and it all depends on what she does now. Workplace facilitations, keep in mind that employers just want employees that can work. They're not super interested in employees they have to spend a lot of extra time on. It's costing the company money. So you may have rights and employers must do as NAV says, but some bosses will not be happy about it. And then it won't be a friendly workplace. Your boss have to spend time on a NAV handler and a union lawyer and other things, he's not happy, that I'm sure of.
 
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Thank you again, for another prompt response. It is truly a relief to finally talk to someone that is familiar with the systems I am talking about, and has context on what is normal or not. The only other people I have to speak with, is the DPS psychotherapist, and NAV, and I feel they don't really give me straight answers.

Well, I need to be clear, because there was additional developments. The NAV Job Specialist was very nice, and looked to help me find another job somewhere. She said she could reach out to some employers I suggested, and see what they say. Now, she did this with one employer, and they said no to me. And from what I saw, that employer really did't want to have anything to do with me. Which was pretty crushing, because with my level of experience, I would be a no-brainer for most places. So, it was the first sense, that perhaps, we didn't want to be forthcoming about my facilitations. It was at this point that I told the NAV Job Specialist that perhaps we should finish up, since we managed to get some facilitations at my current job, and any other jobs I apply for, I am probably better off doing it myself. I was in the NAV system at the same time, and they looked to get me to submit jobseeker reports, but I really didn't get any assistance from them, and the Job Specialist is really only supposed to be a temporary aid in broaching the topic of workplace facilitations with your employer.

I also want to make it clear, that I started to wind things down with NAV, because I was under the impression that I wasn't going to get an Autism diagnosis, and was probably due for some sort of therapy after Christmas.

So, I have been on sick leave because of work related stress, and I have just received my official diagnosis. After reading some more, I understand that NAV plays a part, in handling me being on potential sick leave, or me working at a reduced capacity etc etc. I decided to register with NAV again, but I have not heard back yet.

I still have a job, and regardless of the workplace facilitations, I personally don't feel safe or welcome there any longer, which might be understandable. I hope to find another role soon, but what the role is, if it is remote / hybrid / on-site, if I should be working part-time, if I should be in a different line of work. All of it, I don't know the answer to right now.
 
NAV can be very helpful but a good rule of thumb is to stay away from NAV if it is possible. It can be exhausting to be in that system. It can be helpful or it can be a bureaucracy from hell. It can go either way. But it sounds like you were lucky and met a good NAV specialist.
 
So one thing that could happen is that if you lose that job, NAV might just push you through the system quickly and put you on disability benefits, to get you out of their way. That happens to many people. And AS is considered to be a disorder that makes it difficult for you to work and the next step on the NAV ladder if you or they fail to find work, is disability benefits.
Wow! Would that we had that problem here in the USA. Here it takes years and years and many applications and lawyers to get disability benefits.

Back on topic:

Welcome, Swords. I’m glad you’re here. That’s quite an entangled problem. We see that kind of bureaucratic quagmire in the USA also. I hope you can find a way through that suits you.
 
Maybe just apply for a new job? They'll probably give you a good reference. Then play it a bit differently next time?
 
Wow! Would that we had that problem here in the USA. Here it takes years and years and many applications and lawyers to get disability benefits.

Back on topic:

Welcome, Swords. I’m glad you’re here. That’s quite an entangled problem. We see that kind of bureaucratic quagmire in the USA also. I hope you can find a way through that suits you.
Thank you for the welcome, and I am sorry to hear that it is so difficult to get access to disability benefits in the states.

Being in Nordic countries has always been very relaxing for me, aside from the recent issues with my employer. I do believe, if you are on the spectrum, Nordic countries probably present some of the best support. So, considering my recent diagnosis, it would be wise for me to maintain my residence and career here.

As it looks currently, it seems that I will have to roll the dice on a new employer, and hope they are open to granting some workplace accommodations. I was very happy to see an article from a company in Stavanger, that just outright advertises their openness to hiring people with Asperger's, which is great.

https://www.tietoevry.com/no/nyhets...e-flere-med-asperger-syndrom--nav-tar-lardom/
The first port of call, as far as I can see, is just getting away from my current employer at least.
 
I was very happy to see an article from a company in Stavanger, that just outright advertises their openness to hiring people with Asperger's, which is great.

Stavanger is nice, that's the oil capital so there's a lot of activity, jobs and money there. And it's on the coast so in the summer it's just lovely to be there. Shrimps and boating in the sun. :)
 
That is quite the ordeal. I don't have much insight on the process, but changing employers seems like a good option. Also, you're new to the process of understanding your diagnosis, which means that you're also under stress and don't have an idea of what it is you need. From your description, it is hard to understand what is the issue from the point of view of the employer. What I mean is that I don't have a good sense of what are the issues you need to work on -- if any. One possibility is that you work with assholes, so changing jobs solves the problem. The other possibility is that is that you're dealing with a specific issue that you could figure out better in a new job. Have you always had problems with employers? Example, I always have problems with people with authority over me. I can't shut up when they do idiotic stuff, no matter how hard I try. I can't pretend to be nice to a person I don't like.
 
Stavanger is nice, that's the oil capital so there's a lot of activity, jobs and money there. And it's on the coast so in the summer it's just lovely to be there. Shrimps and boating in the sun. :)
Aye, Stavanger can be nice, but I fly to Ireland a few times a year, so living in a place with direct flights, would be nice. The only two cities that have that are Oslo and Bergen (1 flight twice a week). So, I have my intentions of moving to Oslo for various reasons, but since I cannot fly direct to Ireland from Stavanger, it isn't somewhere I would live I am afraid.

The downsides are of course, the expensive housing in Oslo, which there is little I can do about.
 
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That is quite the ordeal. I don't have much insight on the process, but changing employers seems like a good option. Also, you're new to the process of understanding your diagnosis, which means that you're also under stress and don't have an idea of what it is you need. From your description, it is hard to understand what is the issue from the point of view of the employer. What I mean is that I don't have a good sense of what are the issues you need to work on -- if any. One possibility is that you work with assholes, so changing jobs solves the problem. The other possibility is that is that you're dealing with a specific issue that you could figure out better in a new job. Have you always had problems with employers? Example, I always have problems with people with authority over me. I can't shut up when they do idiotic stuff, no matter how hard I try. I can't pretend to be nice to a person I don't like.
So, I would have had difficulties with management for the past number of years yes. This would revolve around management saying or doing things that perhaps they should not be doing, or a colleague saying or doing something towards me in private that they probably should not. So, I get hung up on the right and wrong, and whether I feel safe. I don't think I necessarily go after management for the sake of it, there are plenty of managers I was on good terms with. It is just that I get hung up on the right or wrong of the situation, when atypical people would just ignore or move on from the situation, or see the bigger picture and understand the battle isn't worth it.

The situation with my current employer, is special, as it is the first time, someone has done something quite blatantly illegal towards me, and hidden their actions from their own employer, and have gone out of their way to make life harder for me, it is not a great situation to be in...

The only way forward, is for me to submit an official complaint against the manager (situation cannot get any worse than it already is, and some written record against the manager needs to make its way to the head office), and get another job, preferably in Oslo.

When it comes to knowing what to do, it is really just hard to know, but staying in the industry I am in, and trying to get another office job (this time hoping they are fine with workplace facilitations) is the best I can do. But, in time, it will show if I need a more aggressive arrangement of remote / hybrid work.
 
It sounds like you have some work to do. No accommodation will fix interaction issues resulting in clashes due to disagreements, unfortunately. However, a very understanding supervisor could work with you to find middle ground, but finding such a person is luck and wouldn't be considered an accommodation.
 
NAV can be very helpful but a good rule of thumb is to stay away from NAV if it is possible. It can be exhausting to be in that system. It can be helpful or it can be a bureaucracy from hell. It can go either way. But it sounds like you were lucky and met a good NAV specialist.

This thread reminds me of the Lilyhammer tv series. ;)
 
Aye, Stavanger can be nice, but I fly to Ireland a few times a year, so living in a place with direct flights, would be nice. The only two cities that have that are Oslo and Bergen (1 flight twice a week). So, I have my intentions of moving to Oslo for various reasons, but since I cannot fly direct to Ireland from Stavanger, it isn't somewhere I would live I am afraid.

The downsides are of course, the expensive housing in Oslo, which there is little I can do about.

Yeah Oslo is expensive. I lived there for many years. It's not a great place I think, I moved to get away from it. But if you find the right place to live and a good job, it can be ok there. My tip would be to stay away from the east side of town. I lived there for too long. Go west if you can.
 
Yeah Oslo is expensive. I lived there for many years. It's not a great place I think, I moved to get away from it. But if you find the right place to live and a good job, it can be ok there. My tip would be to stay away from the east side of town. I lived there for too long. Go west if you can.

What would be your main criticisms of Oslo? Do you find it unattractive to live in, too much crime?

Whether I would live in the city itself, or being at a commutable distance from it, remains to be seen. I feel it is important to leave myself with some flexibility, such that I can commute to an office, occasionally if needed, or I can attend events or meetings in-person.
 
What would be your main criticisms of Oslo? Do you find it unattractive to live in, too much crime?

Whether I would live in the city itself, or being at a commutable distance from it, remains to be seen. I feel it is important to leave myself with some flexibility, such that I can commute to an office, occasionally if needed, or I can attend events or meetings in-person.

I'm not really the right person to ask, if you ask a city boy who was born and raised there, he will tell you it's a great city. And it can be, there are many nice places there. But I'm not a city boy, too much noise and stress and crap for me. And it has changed a lot, it was much nicer there years ago.
 
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