Aspie female needs advice about intimacy

[clueless]

Hello...i'm new on here, but have been reading posts for a while. i wouldn't have posted a question so soon before introducing myself...but i'm kind of in a mess, and i need advice.

i am 25, female. never had a boyfriend, never been kissed, never had sex (obviously). i've met this guy who is seriously gorgeous and popular (he's 34), he asked me out and we've been on a couple of dates (after a series of highly embarrassing miscommunications). i barely know him so i don't really trust him yet (and i think he's far too good looking to be trusted). but i am really trying to get out of my comfort zone and get practice at this...if i stay at home with my history books, i will never grow.

my question: i know we are supposed to kiss (and i want to!) but i can't because 1) i don't know what to do and i'm afraid i'll do it wrong, and then he'll be weirded out, 2) i don't like being touched by strangers. The first reason is stressing me out more than the second.

i can't tell him that i don't know how to kiss, because it's way too early for him to know i'm a virgin. i don't know what to do...i can't sleep, i'm having anxiety attacks. to begin dating at my age is just awful.

have any of you (particularly aspie women) been in this situation? how do you navigate the beginning of a relationship, when intimacy is socially expected but impossible, for whatever reason, for the aspie partner?

thank you for any suggestions

 

[Loomis]

I see no one is responding so I will just jump in although I am in no way qualified to give you "advice." I will just describe my own experiences and you can take or leave whatever you want from them. Maybe if I start answering this thread an aspie female, who will be better equipped to say something useful, will add her two cents.

First I am male and 63 years old. I kissed my first girl when I was 16 or 17. I just did it. We had just met and I put my arms around her and kissed her in the back seat of a car my friend was driving. I liked it and so did she. It was a brief event, maybe 30 seconds or a minute. I have never forgotten it. We dated for a while after that and I was sad when she broke up with me a month or two later. The next time I kissed a girl, she was someone my friend was dating. My friend was not available and she wanted a date so I agreed to go out with her that evening. We went to a drive-in movie and made-out. We kissed for about a half hour to an hour. That was all we did. Just kissing and nothing more. I remember that after it was over I thought we had made-out too long. Interestingly, we both considered this a casual thing. We were friends and it was not anything like my first kiss I described earlier. It was not especially exciting although she was an attractive girl. We never went out again and I talked to my friend who was dating her and he was a bit miffed but not really too much. That was the end of that. I think, for me, this was about learning to make-out. And I think it was the same for her. At the time this happened I was still dating the girl who was my first kiss (she was on vacation and out of town.) and as I said this "casual girl-friend" was dating my friend. All four of us were friends. There was nothing serious at all about this second experience, we were just experimenting. After those two experiences I felt more comfortable kissing and making-out with girls and I just did it whenever it seemed right. So, that was me and my first kissing. I don't know that it will help you but I thought I would just get the thread started since you seem to genuinely want some feedback.

 

[Bay]

Clueless, I am a 54 year old female, and had trouble with dating when I was your age. In my case, I was naive and trusting (since lying was nearly impossible for me, it didn't occur to me that others might lie to me) and was easily taken advantage of. I am glad that you are maintaining awareness of his motives. My only advice would be to listen to your instincts. If you don't trust your instincts (Aspies often second guess themselves, I think), please give yourself permission to take it as slowly as you feel you need to. Don't do anything you are not ready to do.

 

[kg4fxg]

Hi,

I have dated many girls and I would spell it out completely. Tell him the truth about your Aspergers and lack of experience. Trust me, I was not aware of my Aspergers until recently. I have been with girls who have never kissed before. My reaction, it is not a deal breaker. If I love the girl I just want to be with her. As was the case. No sex required or kissing or going very slow with even putting my arm around her.

He needs to know the truth, and with that you both can move forward in a positive direction. Anything less will eventually end in a many misunderstandings and hurt and confusion.

OK, many men may not be as patience as me. But many are that patient. Give him a chance with the truth.

 

[RubenX]

30y/o male here. I had trouble in that department too. Like Bay said, it never occurred to me that people could lie. I believed every single girl that ever told me "I'll love you for ever".

 

[clueless]

Thank you everyone. This is amazing, I've never been on a message board before. I usually feel so alone, I'm so used to figuring things out by myself.
I am also very trusting and truthful. It was devastating to find out that not everyone else is. That's why I'm super cautious now. It's so difficult for me to trust. I feel like I'm being led to the edge of a precipice and I'm desperately trying not to fall off the edge...but I think I am supposed to fall off the edge. That's what trust is, isn't it? I just can't do it unless I know there will be a soft landing. I tried to explain Asperger's to him...he wasn't having any of it. I thought I could just say "my brain is wired differently, so I'm kind of weird and the social world is difficult for me to interpret". Apparently not. I ended up telling him outright (not in person though). I'm not sure if that was a mistake...we'll see what happens.

Anyway, thanks again everyone. This is the first time since reading Aspergirls a few months ago, that I've felt like other people "get" me

 

[Soup]

Hi Clueless!

I'm a 47yr old Aspie woman-married with 2 young adult kids. I don't like being touched either, am a solitary sort & I can identify with your awkwardness even today! Remaining aware of this man's intentions is important BUT "...and i think he's far too good looking to be trusted." <--- this kind of thinking could cause you to alienate what might be just a nice guy who, after all, was born looking the way he does & isn't responsible for the fact that his looks correspond to our current society's beauty conventions. There is no correlation whatsoever between beauty & a person's character. Someone attractive can turn out to be morally/ethically bankrupt just as readily as he might turn out to be truly admirable. Same goes for a hot looking guy.

Here are a few red flags & good signs to watch out for:

1. A difference between what he says & what he does (Believe what he does not what he says: talk is cheap) <---RED FLAG!

2. You are just beginning to date & hardly know him. If he gets too physical too fast (simple holding hands, taking your arm, or a simple kiss on the cheek is pretty normal in the early dating stages) & tries groping you, slobbering all over you, tries to get you to have sex with him on your 1st few dates, it's a bad sign.<--RED FLAG!

3. If on your 1st few dates he conveniently, accidentally 'forgets' his wallet & sticks you with a bill, it's a red flag. If he tries to borrow money from you or asks you to ask your parents (firends etc.) for a loan for him, say NO no matter what the sob story is & don't date him any more.<---RED FLAG!

4. If he begins, right away, prying into your personal life & your very private business (asking you about your sex life, asking you what you like to do in bed, asking you about your body) then ditch him. <---RED FLAG!

5. If he takes an interest in YOU as a PERSON, it's a good sign. He asks you about your hobbies, pass-times, sports you do, what you enjoy doing, what activities you love...GREAT! He's looking to get to know you as a friend not just as a pretty girl to date because you look good on his arm (like a watch or something).<--GOOD SIGN!

6. If he shows signs of being a control freak ---> tells you something like: 'You'd be so much prettier as a red head." or orders for you at a restaurant without consulting YOU, controls every aspect of the date, where you go & what activities you do whether you enjoy these things or not, BAD SIGN!

7. If he spends time on the date bashing other women he used to date (or his mother or any other women), seems curt & rude with others like waiters, ushers, ticket-takers etc. it is a sign that he's an angry person. I don't care if he looks like Johnny Depp. Don't pursue a relationship with a rude angry person. Ever.<---RED FLAG!

8. If, while on a date with you, he indiscreetly ogles every other woman who passes by, ditch him.<---RED FLAG!

9. He respects the limits you set ---> such as the time you have to be back at home, you are okay with hand-holding BUT not ready for heavy groping. You love going to museums & the ballet, but don't want to go to a baseball game or bowling for ex. He respects that & you make plans for the evening together that you both like. <---GOOD SIGN!

10. He doesn't spend the date texting others, on the phone with others & ignoring you. <---GOOD SIGN.

These few clues ought to help you navigate your foray into the dating world better. Remember that dating nerves & jitters can disguise themselves as intuition & you can mistakenly attribute your discomfort to some message coming from him. Watch his behaviour & actions. Watch his attitude & how he treats other people. If his behaviour is good, your discomfort is probably just newbie nerves. THIS IS NORMAL! Even experienced daters get nervous on a 1st date with a new person. This has nothing to do with Asperger's & everything to do with human nature. HE'S NERVOUS TOO! But probably using all his skills to try not to appear too nervous. After all, HE wants to ake a good impression on a nice new girl, HE knows you're watching & evaluating him & he doesn't want to fail to measure up! Enjoy your date & let us know how you managed!

 

[clueless]

Hi Soup,
I love lists thank you for your advice, it really is helpful to see things written down like that. i always know in my gut when things are right or wrong, but i often question myself because i'm never sure what NTs think of as "normal"...and when it comes to dating, what might be "normal" to the dating partner.

i saw this guy again, and i really think he's not for me. he continues to violate rule 9... he makes me feel abnormal every time i try to explain my boundaries (they are aspie-related sensory or social boundaries). when i'm with him, i just feel...dulled. the only way i can describe it is that the whole evening seems grey. i don't feel like i'm allowed to be myself.

clearly not ideal (i knew this deep-down from date no.1), but because sometimes i second guess myself, i was sort of willing to see if it got any better -- i wasn't sure if i'd eventually grow to like him more. in Aspergirls, Rudy Simone talks about giving people a large enough "window of opportunity" (i can't help thinking of an actual window that opportunities come from!) to meet one's expectations, and that's what i was trying to do.

but then i spoke to my close friend about the whole situation, and she said never to settle for someone like that, because eventually he would just crush my spirit. i believe she's right.

i have 1 or 2 good friends who i find it so easy to be around...being with them is as enjoyable as being by myself. i think there must surely be a guy out there who'd make me feel the same way. unfortunately, i think i will have to date lots of people before i find him. i really hate this, i don't understand why NTs enjoy dating so much! from what i can figure out by listening to my work colleagues and university friends talk... nowadays, it seems that people my age quite often have sex on the 4th or 5th date. and if the first date goes well, they'll have a proper snog. the first kiss is hugely important, apparently. i've listened to many friends describe how they decided not to keep seeing their date because the first kiss was disappointing. i'm not even sure that people hold hands before doing all of that! my friends all tell me how great the "honeymoon period" is. for me, the honeymoon period equals panic attacks, sleepless nights, and time spent trying to figure out how to postpone the dreaded kiss (i wish i'd had my first kiss at 16, like loomis). but i suppose if i met a man who made me feel comfortable and accepted, then maybe it would be easier. that's my holy grail

 

[RubenX]

Hello again,

I wanted to add something that I figured out not long ago. As clueless said at the beginning, I also believed that most people were telling the truth. In my case, the confusion was multiplied to the gazilionth degree because I grew up in private religious schools. And while the religious indoctrination failed (bible stories had flaws), nuns did succeed in making me believe that a romantic partner should be "pure". I honestly bought all the tales of terror about bad it gets when one practices sex freely. And I learned to repudiate those who did.

Not only that kept me from pursuing relationships (I wanted to be pure)... but it also made me get away from suitable partners (they had not been "pure"). When I finally got married, I married the one and only girl I had ever kissed. And just as she was my first, my one and my only, I was also her only boyfriend ever, her first. That relationship didn't went well, but I tried to make it work for 5 long years. My reasoning was that, if I divorce, I'll be "non-pure" and whatever relationship I start will not be "special" because I'll be "unpure". And I would also be a liar, because I promised "till death do us part".

Still to this day, when I meet somebody who claims to be "single", I usually think they are not having sex with nobody... as indoctrinated by the nuns for 12 years. Phrases like "I dated him/her" are of no meaning to me. When does "dating" means dinner and when it means sex? Almost 40 years old and I still can't tell. Same thing with "we were just friends". When "just friends" means dinner and when it means occasional sex without romantic involvement? I never know. I really can't tell when it's one or the other.

My current relationship is almost 3 years long now, Live-in fiance. If this ever ends I don't know what I'm gonna do because the whole dating scene is so confusing to me. I'll probably just stay alone and avoid the stress. After all, I already have 2 kids so I fulfilled the "grow and multiply" mandate. :\

 

[Soup]

I'm glad you didn't continue with a guy who violates rule #9. That's a BIG one because it speaks to whether or not the guy respects YOU as a person & if he's a cooperative.
If you felt dulled & diminished with him, he's not relationship material for you. Why not date another Aspie? there's a lot more mutual understanding from the get-go...

@ RubenX: Many people who were raised in overly religious environments struggle with the same challenges. Rather than having truly high standards for another person, they rely on dogmatic superficialities. Since when does the fact of never having had sex make a person 'pure'? The person might be a lying thieving bad character: you can't tell who a person is by whether or not they were sexually active. 'Purity' (human goodness & positive intentions) calculated in sexual terms is like judging character according to wealth!!! It makes no sense whatsoever. Also in the early dating phase, another person's sexual history is none of anyone else's business! Most hypocritically, too, such assessments revolving around 'virginity' apply much more severely (almost exclusively) to women! I'm glad you're questioning & deconstructing those teachings & growing beyond them.

 

[Kelly]

I'm late to this thread but just wanted to say Soup you gave some great advice, wish I'd had someone like you to advise me when I was younger.

Clueless I am so glad you are not going to carry on seeing this guy, don't give up on dating though you may have to go on many crap dates before you find someone who is just wonderful.

Ruben - I sort of know where your coming from, well sort of...let me explain. I had this idea of not having sex hopefully until I was married or until I was 100% sure I was in love and the guy loved me too (not from a religious view just because that was how I felt about sex). When I was 16 I met a guy who like me was a virgin, he was really sweet, seemed to respect me etc and we started dating. Then after a few months of seeing him /talking to him every day I was soooo sure I was in love and he loved me too, he was so romantic (wrote me poems and stuff like that)....long story short my first time was with him and he was so nasty to me during it that I was afraid to tell him to stop incase he seriously hurt me. I was absolutely distraught but because my head was so messed up afterwards he convinced me that it was somehow my fault and that ALL women like it like that 'or so he'd heard'. I stayed with him on and off for 2 years because I desperately clung on to the idea that we would eventually get married we had to, we were in love right and he was my first and lots of niaeve(I can never spell that word) stuff like that.

I ended up sleeping with alot of guys purely because they showed me the slightest bit of interest, I was so convinced nobody would ever really truely love me that I thought what does it matter who I have sex with they are all the same, they only care about getting laid and treat me like dirt, even the ones who start out acting all nice. That first relationship really screwed me up for quite a few years and even when I met my husband I thought again he would just use and abuse me like all the rest, it took a long time for me to really trust him and really believe that he loved me for me and not just for my body.

Anyway back on topic, clueless you go as slow as you want with your dates, if he really respects you he will go as slow as you want to, if he starts getting pushy then it may be time to stop seeing him. As for the actual kissing it will feel awkward at first but then you will get so 'into it' that I think instinct or whatever it is just kicks in and you just seem to know what to do. Just start slow with a little peck on the lips and work your way up to open mouth & tongues(if you want to do that, not everybody likes tongue) and you can always pull away if your not comfortable or anything like that.

I hope a nice guy comes along soon for you x

 

[clueless]

Hi Kelly, I hope so too! Actually, I think this guy might actually have been nice, but maybe i just couldn't read the signs... i don't think we were a good fit for each other, but maybe i didn't give him a proper chance. i am so protective of myself...my feelings. i don't know, i am quite confused, actually. i am starting to think that unless a guy can truly understand AS, it will be difficult to be in a relationship with me.

since my last post, I sent him a very blunt (in retrospect, rude), email...and he answered with a very irritated but honest email. he told me what i needed to hear, and now i know that he's not a jerk...but i had to push him away to find that out. and now i wonder, was i wrong? how would an N.T girl have read the situation? my instincts really told me not to trust him, but it seems i was wrong. maybe my overactive amygdala tricked me...

i feel bad about it all...i hate getting tangled up with other people's needs and desires and feelings...people always get hurt. i'm the emotional equivalent of a bull in an china shop. at the same time i know that if i found someone who could handle me, then it could be really amazing. i even annoy my family though, so it'd take a really special guy to be able to deal with me. i was feeling self confident in my last post...after the email exchange, it hit me that i haven't blended in the N.T world as much as i'd thought i had. dating makes me feel my differences acutely.

also, i've realised that i have no idea what it's supposed to feel like when you start dating someone. i assume that if it's a good match, people feel giddy, nervous, excited? i never felt that with this guy. i felt nervous...but more like panic attack nerves, not simple jitters. i'm so anxious about dating, that maybe my anxiety covers up the good feelings.

even though i don't think this guy was for me...i still sort of feel like it was my one chance, and i blew it! i never usually meet anyone because i don't flirt, and i can't tell when someone is flirting with me. i really just wanted him to be amazing so that i could relax and feel "normal" for once. i really can't even imagine what it must be like to not be alone. i'm trying not to feel too down about this whole thing. i found a quote in Aspergirls (i promise i'm not the book's P.R person! it's such a good book though, really helped me)...an AS woman's N.T husband wrote about her: "i get very protective of her because she's my everything. i don't care about her quirks. that's not who she is, it's just a part of what makes her personality interesting. she's smart, funny, and honestly the bravest woman i've ever met. she's been through hell and came out ok. i'm sure some came from people not understanding her AS, but i don't care. she's mine, and i wouldn't change her..." i've printed it out and stuck it on my bedroom wall to remind me that there might be someone out there for me, who is as amazing as that woman's husband. sometimes i have a little cry when i read it.

oh, and i agree with Kelly...Soup, you do give wonderful advice. your kids are lucky to have a mum like you! i've thought about dating aspies, it would be easier. (my dream: a tall, skinny, geek with glasses and a big beard who could tell me stuff about stuff ) but i don't know how to find aspies where i live. i don't think there are any support groups here (i live in china for now...which is a whole different post...i've never lived anywhere so full of AS triggers. it's truly exhausting).

well, i'm blabbering now. thanks again everyone. i have learned something through this experience, at least. i really appreciate all the kind help and advice.