Autism and employment

[Kevin L.]

Hi Guys:

I recounted parts of my work issues in other threads when it comes to following rules and policies at work, and a friendly co-worker (whom is aware of my autism) has tried to help me . . . and I'm having difficulty understanding his advice.

Basically, I've often been fired from jobs because I'm meticulous about following the rules (as I've indicated in other threads).

My co-worker compared my adherence to rules and policies to someone whom follows stupid laws that are still on the books . . . for example, there is a law in New York City which states that you have to get out of your car and fire your pistol in the air before turning left or right at an intersection, or another law in Alabama which states that when you beat your wife for "home correction," you must not use a stick that's thicker than your thumb.

I'm sure that we've all heard of similar laws from talk show hosts and late-night comedians . . . and my co-worker compares my tendency to follow workplace rules and procedures to a person who follows these kind of out-dated laws despite these laws being stupid and dangerous (such as firing your pistol in the air while turning at an intersection). So . . . when I meticulously follow the rules, I'm being passive-aggressive. Speaking for myself, I can't stand dealing with passive-aggressive people at work (or anywhere else, for that matter). When people meticulously follow rules, it's often called "working to rule," which is considered a form of passive-aggressive behavior that's used to protest workplace inequalities.

How does one decide which policies to follow and which ones to ignore . . . with the idea that I don't want to be perceived as passive-aggressive? I don't feel comfortable simply copying someone else's work behavior, because I seem to see a lot of people who don't do their jobs.

Also, the time and energy that I would spend worrying about how everyone else is doing their job should be more properly channeled into me doing my job. Also, I have a little voice in my head which says that just because someone else doesn't do their job doesn't mean that I shouldn't do my job.

My co-worker may actually be right about how I'm perceived as a passive-aggressive a----hole because I follow the rules.

How do I figure out which rules should be neglected?

Any input would be appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

See below for what I mean by "working to rule."

Baltimore Teachers Union

 

[Bolletje]

This is really tricky. Would it be possible to have a chat with a supervisor about which rules are strict rules and which rules are more like guidelines?

I run into a similar problem at work and have started rating rules by importance. The most important rules are rules I always follow and will report coworkers for breaking. The rules low on the priority lists are still rules I follow, but if I see they aren’t being followed, I let it slide because I know management doesn’t really care about those rules being broken. It’s not ideal - I still get anxious when I see rules broken over and over again - but at least I’m not alienating my coworkers by being perceived as a stickler.

 

[Magna]

Also, I have a little voice in my head which says that just because someone else doesn't do their job doesn't mean that I shouldn't do my job.

^ This has been my work motto all of my working career. I think it's a good one.

I empathize with you because I've had the same issues with work. An autism therapist I had explained a few things to me about workplace rules and dynamics. It surprised me for example when she said: "When the boss is on vacation, they don't expect much work will get done and they know that most of the employees will sit around and chat, do the bare minimum, etc."

My therapist recommended I read a book called: "Don't Burp in the Boardroom".

I think the most important thing at a job is to make sure you're doing the work and following the rules that your boss expects. Can you talk to your boss about that?

If your coworkers are doing the bare minimum or doing subpar work, don't reduce yourself to that level.

 

[Kevin L.]

This is really tricky. Would it be possible to have a chat with a supervisor about which rules are strict rules and which rules are more like guidelines?

I run into a similar problem at work and have started rating rules by importance. The most important rules are rules I always follow and will report coworkers for breaking. The rules low on the priority lists are still rules I follow, but if I see they aren’t being followed, I let it slide because I know management doesn’t really care about those rules being broken. It’s not ideal - I still get anxious when I see rules broken over and over again - but at least I’m not alienating my coworkers by being perceived as a stickler.

Thank you very much.

 

[Matthias]

How do I figure out which rules should be neglected

Work rules shouldn't be neglected but you should seek to follow the spirit of the rule instead of the literal wording of it. This can be done easily by paying attention to people around you and thinking about other people's needs and desires instead of solely focusing on yourself.

 

[Bolletje]

I read the working to rule thing: I haven’t really associated that with people meticulously following all the rules. Rather, I associate it with people that only do what’s in their contract, but not anything else. I have coworkers that sign off the minute their work shift ends, regardless of how much work is left and how busy things are overall. They show up, perform their work to the letter of the contract and are not prepared to do anything extra.

If that’s the situation for you, I can understand it being perceived as passive aggressive.

 

[Aneka]

Hi Guys:

I recounted parts of my work issues in other threads when it comes to following rules and policies at work, and a friendly co-worker (whom is aware of my autism) has tried to help me . . . and I'm having difficulty understanding his advice.

Basically, I've often been fired from jobs because I'm meticulous about following the rules (as I've indicated in other threads).

My co-worker compared my adherence to rules and policies to someone whom follows stupid laws that are still on the books . . . for example, there is a law in New York City which states that you have to get out of your car and fire your pistol in the air before turning left or right at an intersection, or another law in Alabama which states that when you beat your wife for "home correction," you must not use a stick that's thicker than your thumb.

I'm sure that we've all heard of similar laws from talk show hosts and late-night comedians . . . and my co-worker compares my tendency to follow workplace rules and procedures to a person who follows these kind of out-dated laws despite these laws being stupid and dangerous (such as firing your pistol in the air while turning at an intersection). So . . . when I meticulously follow the rules, I'm being passive-aggressive. Speaking for myself, I can't stand dealing with passive-aggressive people at work (or anywhere else, for that matter). When people meticulously follow rules, it's often called "working to rule," which is considered a form of passive-aggressive behavior that's used to protest workplace inequalities.

How does one decide which policies to follow and which ones to ignore . . . with the idea that I don't want to be perceived as passive-aggressive? I don't feel comfortable simply copying someone else's work behavior, because I seem to see a lot of people who don't do their jobs.

Also, the time and energy that I would spend worrying about how everyone else is doing their job should be more properly channeled into me doing my job. Also, I have a little voice in my head which says that just because someone else doesn't do their job doesn't mean that I shouldn't do my job.

My co-worker may actually be right about how I'm perceived as a passive-aggressive a----hole because I follow the rules.

How do I figure out which rules should be neglected?

Any input would be appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

See below for what I mean by "working to rule."

Baltimore Teachers Union

So if your blinker is broke the pistol takes over the job. What if the pistol is broke?

 

[Kevin L.]

^ This has been my work motto all of my working career. I think it's a good one.

I empathize with you because I've had the same issues with work. An autism therapist I had explained a few things to me about workplace rules and dynamics. It surprised me for example when she said: "When the boss is on vacation, they don't expect much work will get done and they know that most of the employees will sit around and chat, do the bare minimum, etc."

My therapist recommended I read a book called: "Don't Burp in the Boardroom".

I think the most important thing at a job is to make sure you're doing the work and following the rules that your boss expects. Can you talk to your boss about that?

If your coworkers are doing the bare minimum or doing subpar work, don't reduce yourself to that level.

Thank you very much.

I am currently working as an EKG technician in a hospital while I'm going to school to be an RN.

An example is a rule which requires me to write up a situation where a patient is disconnected from an EKG machine . . . which brings supervisory attention on the patient's nurse.

I alienate my co-workers and my boss (for example) when I wrote up a patient who got disconnected . . . and he has "do not resusitate" orders due to a terminal illness.

The monitors are often utilized in this setting to help calibrate doses of pain medication instead of an indicator for CPR.

So, I'm callous and nasty for getting a nurse in trouble over "something stupid." On a few occasions, a terminal patient and their spouse wanted to be intimate before becoming too incapicitated during the dying process . . . and I upset this process by following the rules (I'm taking a lot of shortcuts and making generalizations in my discription of the situation, but I'm communicating the essence of what happens).

 

[Kevin L.]

So if your blinker is broke the pistol takes over the job. What if the pistol is broke?

Then I can't turn at the intersection.

 

[Kevin L.]

Work rules shouldn't be neglected but you should seek to follow the spirit of the rule instead of the literal wording of it. This can be done easily by paying attention to people around you and thinking about other people's needs and desires instead of solely focusing on yourself.

I understand the point of what you're saying, but not how to go about implementing it.

I seem to have lots and lots of people around me whom don't do their jobs. How do I distinguish between a co-worker not doing their job vs. a co-work whom is sloppy about following rules in order to work? It's the same question that I have for myself, but applied to another person . . . which doesn't seem to get me anywhere.

I've tried to talk to my boss, but he seems to be afraid to authorize me to deviate from the rules, because if something happens . . . then it will be his responsibility.

This is--evidentally--why I get told "If I have to do your thinking for you, then I may as well fire you and do your job myself. The whole rest of the world can figure this out, so you're being deliberately stupid when it's conveinient for you."

Before you call my boss an ogre, I get this--in one form or another--from everywhere I work . . . so it is me and not the rest of the world.

 

[Tom]

Your friends information is out of date. New York has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country and you now have to throw your javelin instead of firing a pistol when your blinkers aren't working.

 

[Kevin L.]

Your friends information is out of date. New York has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country and you now have to throw your javelin instead of pistol when your blinkers aren't working.

Thank you. I stand corrected (LOL).

 

[Matthias]

I understand the point of what you're saying, but not how to go about implementing it.

I seem to have lots and lots of people around me whom don't do their jobs. How do I distinguish between a co-worker not doing their job vs. a co-work whom is sloppy about following rules in order to work? It's the same question that I have for myself, but applied to another person . . . which doesn't seem to get me anywhere.

I've tried to talk to my boss, but he seems to be afraid to authorize me to deviate from the rules, because if something happens . . . then it will be his responsibility.

This is--evidentally--why I get told "If I have to do your thinking for you, then I may as well fire you and do your job myself. The whole rest of the world can figure this out, so you're being deliberately stupid when it's conveinient for you."

Before you call my boss an ogre, I get this--in one form or another--from everywhere I work . . . so it is me and not the rest of the world.

Ask yourself questions such as:
Why was the rule created?
What is the purpose of the rule?
How does this rule help my employer?
What problems does this rule intend to prevent?

Once you think about it and understand the reasons behind the rule, it will be easier to do what your employer wants.

 

[Kevin L.]

Ask yourself questions such as:
Why was the rule created?
What is the purpose of the rule?
How does this rule help my employer?
What problems does this rule intend to prevent?

Once you think about it and understand the reasons behind the rule, it will be easier to do what your employer wants.

I agree, and I have utilized this stratedgy in prior jobs. I have to figure out how to approach my boss with this idea of clarification, as he has a dictatorial management style, and he gets intensely angry when people question his policies . . . which--in his mind--is the same thing as challenging his authority.

 

[Bolletje]

I am currently working as an EKG technician in a hospital while I'm going to school to be an RN.

Ah. Hospitals are a great place for following rules (I worked there as a doctor). Is it possible for you to write down your own personal list of exceptions to the rules? For instance, if a patient is disconnected from the EKG machine, you wouldn’t report that immediately, but instead find out the reason for the disconnection and whether or not that is a valid and/or understandable reason for disconnecting. I know as an EKG tech you’re probably not the one to make the call on whether or not it’s medically responsible for a patient to be disconnected for a while, but you can hold up the reason to your own moral compass.

For instance, for me a terminal patient being disconnected to be intimate with their partner for the last time would be an understandable and acceptable reason to disconnect (and it is something I have allowed on my ward).

A patient’s EKG being disconnected because a member of staff is annoyed by the beeping, or because someone wants to use the electrical outlet for something, is not okay in my book.

I realize that these are extreme examples, but that is how I try to gauge whether or not to report (that, and the aforementioned “priority/importance” chart.

I currently work in a clinic instead of a hospital, but I employ the same type of logic and that determines whether I let things slide, whether I address the issue with the person breaking the rule, or whether I report the issue to management.

 

[Bolletje]

How do I distinguish between a co-worker not doing their job vs. a co-work whom is sloppy about following rules in order to work?

Just a bit of curiosity: is it part of your job to assess how well your coworkers are functioning? If not, I think it might be in your best interest to let it go unless them not following the rules create a seriously dangerous situation. It’s obviously your own choice, but if you’re alienating your coworkers by keeping an eye on and reporting each and every mistake, this might be a solution.

 

[Kevin L.]

Ah. Hospitals are a great place for following rules (I worked there as a doctor). Is it possible for you to write down your own personal list of exceptions to the rules? For instance, if a patient is disconnected from the EKG machine, you wouldn’t report that immediately, but instead find out the reason for the disconnection and whether or not that is a valid and/or understandable reason for disconnecting. I know as an EKG tech you’re probably not the one to make the call on whether or not it’s medically responsible for a patient to be disconnected for a while, but you can hold up the reason to your own moral compass.

For instance, for me a terminal patient being disconnected to be intimate with their partner for the last time would be an understandable and acceptable reason to disconnect (and it is something I have allowed on my ward).

A patient’s EKG being disconnected because a member of staff is annoyed by the beeping, or because someone wants to use the electrical outlet for something, is not okay in my book.

I realize that these are extreme examples, but that is how I try to gauge whether or not to report (that, and the aforementioned “priority/importance” chart.

I currently work in a clinic instead of a hospital, but I employ the same type of logic and that determines whether I let things slide, whether I address the issue with the person breaking the rule, or whether I report the issue to management.

Very, very helpful. Thank you. I'll see where I can go with this.

My problems with employment, relationships, and so forth have simply re-occurred throughout my life, and everyone is unanimous on judging me to be the one that causes everything intentionally.

I have even run into problems--including professional sanctions-- because I've refused to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, and sexual orientation . . . with the common denominator being that I have "no common sense."

As an example of how I was sanctioned over sexual orientation, please consider this true story:

I was a paramedic and a field training officer, which meant that I was a kind of proctor for new hires.

Our medical director had close ties with a local university, so we often had nursing students riding with us as part of an elective EMS course.

So, I got one student whom was working on his advance-practice nurse practitioner credential. He already had a Master's Degree in healthcare administration, and over 7 yrs experience working in a pediatric intensive care unit.

We ran an emergency call on a very sick 11 year old boy who was undergoing chemotherapy and radiation for an aggressive form of leukemia . . . while being a type 1 diabetic at the same time and having a diabetic crisis besides.

In any case, I felt like I was missing something, so I put my student in charge and delegated myself to helping him. He performed magnificently, and saved this kid's life.

Now here is where I get to the point: The parents (especially the father) were horribly outraged, as my student was very effeminate in a way that would cause many people to assume that he's gay (and yes, he's "very gay").

The family was deeply religious, and they believed that my student was a threat to their son because "gay people have to recruit", because "nobody is ever born gay because God doesn't make mistakes." Also, since "almost all gay people are child molesters and pedophiles", and "how would you feel if some paramedic let a pedophile handle your child?"

They sent letters--signed off on by their whole church--to their Congressman, and also to the regulatory board that governs paramedic and EMT licensure.

In my autism, I didn't pick up on the family's discomfort, as I was narrowly focused ("tunnel vision") on saving the kid's life, and it never occurred to me to use anything less than all of my available resources . . . including my student, with his PICU experience.

I lost my promotion, as my actions were perceived like forcing a blood transfusion on a Jehova's Witness . . . or intentionally giving a devout Muslim patient pork insulin when I know that synthetic human insulin is readily available.

So . . . I walked on a patient's religious priorities because I didn't care about their beliefs.
It's things like this that always sink me at work.

They made me study the following book (and similar material) as source of continuing education.

 

[Kevin L.]

Just a bit of curiosity: is it part of your job to assess how well your coworkers are functioning? If not, I think it might be in your best interest to let it go unless them not following the rules create a seriously dangerous situation. It’s obviously your own choice, but if you’re alienating your coworkers by keeping an eye on and reporting each and every mistake, this might be a solution.

Thank you.

I only report what is in my purview in the context of my job. I--for example--may see people vaping in the restroom, but I don't say anything because hospital security isn't part of my job.

I only report what I'm told to report by the requirements of policy and procedure for my specific position.

 

[Bolletje]

Very, very helpful. Thank you. I'll see where I can go with this.

My problems with employment, relationships, and so forth have simply re-occurred throughout my life, and everyone is unanimous on judging me to be the one that causes everything intentionally.

I have even run into problems--including professional sanctions-- because I've refused to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, and sexual orientation . . . with the common denominator being that I have "no common sense."

As an example of how I was sanctioned over sexual orientation, please consider this true story:

I was a paramedic and a field training officer, which meant that I was a kind of proctor for new hires.

Our medical director had close ties with a local university, so we often had nursing students riding with us as part of an elective EMS course.

So, I got one student whom was working on his advance-practice nurse practitioner credential. He already had a Master's Degree in healthcare administration, and over 7 yrs experience working in a pediatric intensive care unit.

We ran an emergency call on a very sick 11 year old boy who was undergoing chemotherapy and radiation for an aggressive form of leukemia . . . while being a type 1 diabetic at the same time and having a diabetic crisis besides.

In any case, I felt like I was missing something, so I put my student in charge and delegated myself to helping him. He performed magnificently, and saved this kid's life.

Now here is where I get to the point: The parents (especially the father) were horribly outraged, as my student was very effeminate in a way that would cause many people to assume that he's gay (and yes, he's "very gay").

The family was deeply religious, and they believed that my student was a threat to their son because "gay people have to recruit", because "nobody is ever born gay because God doesn't make mistakes." Also, since "almost all gay people are child molesters and pedophiles", and "how would you feel if some paramedic let a pedophile handle your child?"

They sent letters--signed off on by their whole church--to their Congressman, and also to the regulatory board that governs paramedic and EMT licensure.

In my autism, I didn't pick up on the family's discomfort, as I was narrowly focused ("tunnel vision") on saving the kid's life, and it never occurred to me to use anything less than all of my available resources . . . including my student, with his PICU experience.

I lost my promotion, as my actions were perceived like forcing a blood transfusion on a Jehova's Witness . . . or intentionally giving a devout Muslim patient pork insulin when I know that synthetic human insulin is readily available.

So . . . I walked on a patient's religious priorities because I didn't care about their beliefs.
It's things like this that always sink me at work.

They made me study the following book (and similar material) as source of continuing education.

View attachment 73076

Oh no, that’s a horrible story! I’m so sorry that happened to you. It saddens me that people can be that narrow-minded to be upset about the perceived sexual orientation of the person saving their kid’s life, rather than being thankful for the timely help. Terrible.

I don’t feel like you treaded on their beliefs if they never spoke up about their discomfort. It’s not your job to guess whether your patient’s parents are bigots, it’s your job to care for your patients. Yes, bedside manner matters, but in an acute crisis it’s not at the top of your priority list. I’m really appalled about all of this. Even more that your superiors didn’t back you up.

 

[Kevin L.]

Oh no, that’s a horrible story! I’m so sorry that happened to you. It saddens me that people can be that narrow-minded to be upset about the perceived sexual orientation of the person saving their kid’s life, rather than being thankful for the timely help. Terrible.

I don’t feel like you treaded on their beliefs if they never spoke up about their discomfort. It’s not your job to guess whether your patient’s parents are bigots, it’s your job to care for your patients. Yes, bedside manner matters, but in an acute crisis it’s not at the top of your priority list. I’m really appalled about all of this. Even more that your superiors didn’t back you up.

Thank you for the validation.

This is an example of me following a rule ("Save the patient's life with everything you have within the scope of your training") at the expense of another ("Respect patients' religious beliefs . . . even if it kills them, as may happen when the child of a Jehova's Witness is excluded from a medically neccesary blood transfusion, for example").

I've run into very similar problems with racial issues.

As an example, consider the following points:

1) It is (or was) strongly believed that marijuana is a "gateway drug" that leads--in gradual increments--to heroin addiction.
2) Many Rastafarians (an Afro-Caribbean religion that originated in Jamaica) use marijuana as a sacrement in their faith.
3) Rastafarians often wear their hair in dreadlocks for similar reasons why many Orthodox Jewish men have payess side curls.
4) Minorities are over-represented in the American community of drug abusers and drug addicts.
5) Morphine sulfate is a live-saving drug if given in an appropriate and restrained manner to someone having a cardiac event and/or pulmonary edema from congestive heart failure.

So . . .

If I ran an emergency call on a White person whom was having symptoms of a heart attack (an M.I.), I gave them morphine per my protocols and all was well.

If--however--I ran on a Black man from the islands--with symptoms of an M.I.--whom happened to be wearing dreadlocks, then I'd get excoriated for giving him morphine, as I was "turning him into a drug addict." I was hurrying along the slippery slope process that started with him using marijuana.

I would sometimes get into yelling matches with my bosses over this, because my view (as a paramedic) is that all medications have side-effects, and an unreasonable fear of an unlikely side-effect shouldn't keep me from using a life-saving medication in an emergency, and skin color and/or ethnic heritage is irrelevant.

If anyone doubts my perception, then please examine the following video.

Oscar HMO insurance is an entire company that has it's business model predicated on the idea that pain control will not be withheld from patients with dark skin.