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Autism's Catch 22

Tom

Tom

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Catch 22: A situation in which a desired outcome or solution is impossible to attain because of a set of inherently illogical rules or conditions. (Urban Dictionary)

There are varying definitions out there but it broadly indicates a faulty logic.

For autistics I think it applies to a common misconception held by professionals as well as lay persons, that someone succeeding in navigating life is proof that that they aren't autistic to begin with.

So all the therapies, training, adaptations and coping skills (whether professionally and or self accomplished) will only work for autistics if they are not autistic. :rolleyes:
 
german: Zwickmühle, ausweglose Situation, paradoxe Situation
english: catch 22

lol. catch 22 sounds like something I have when I would play poker lol.

I putted your post into translator, but I´m not sure if I really understand it. I just nod with my head and hope that noone notices it : P
 
...or if they're perfectly happy and content with themselves, but can't seem to fit neurotypical standards, can you really call them successful? Seems to me that we're all being hostage by the status quo (which is actually smaller than they make us think), since even NTs need therapy too.
 
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Shaddock said:
german: Zwickmühle, ausweglose Situation, paradoxe Situation
english: catch 22

lol. catch 22 sounds like something I have when I would play poker lol.

I putted your post into translator, but I´m not sure if I really understand it. I just nod with my head and hope that noone notices it : P
Click to expand...

You should watch this movie, it explains everything. :)

catch.jpg
 
It seems to me that there is a catch 22 when people come to depend on external support in order to function. The support alleviates the burden and makes life easier. However, the recipient of support is sometimes conditioned to believe they will fail without support.

For “Aspies” who were diagnosed late in life, such as myself, there was no screening or support for autism. I was always a loner and never quite fit in growing up. In school, I had difficulty taking notes and never could learn to type properly. But I discovered that I have great recall from memory, and did not need to take notes. I learned social skills by studying and emulating behaviors, fashion styles, and appearances of others. I have had a productive career spanning almost 40 years, and was surprised when I was diagnosed autistic while being treated for insomnia and sensory issues at age 61.

Maybe I am an unusual case, but I wonder if I would have been as successful had I been diagnosed with ASD and general anxiety disorder at a young age?
 
Catch22 is to me:
You're dammed if you do, you're dammed if you don't do. But this might be one way to see it.

Or you do something to better a outcome but the end result maybe an outcome that ended up reversing what you did.
 
Shaddock said:
german: Zwickmühle, ausweglose Situation, paradoxe Situation
english: catch 22

lol. catch 22 sounds like something I have when I would play poker lol.

I putted your post into translator, but I´m not sure if I really understand it. I just nod with my head and hope that noone notices it : P
Click to expand...

Yes, Paradox situation
 
Shaddock said:
german: Zwickmühle, ausweglose Situation, paradoxe Situation
english: catch 22

lol. catch 22 sounds like something I have when I would play poker lol.

I putted your post into translator, but I´m not sure if I really understand it. I just nod with my head and hope that noone notices it : P
Click to expand...
This comes from Heller's novel, Catch 22. Here is a passage that explains it.

(Yossarian) "You mean there's a catch?"

"Sure there's a catch," Doc Daneeka replied. "Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat duty isn't really crazy."

There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane, he had to fly them. If he flew them, he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to, he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
 
@Forest Cat @Gerald Wilgus

thanks, I started watching the movie. the noise of the jets in the beginning was annoying.

PS: the movie is very funny, even when I usually don´t like comedys.

PPS: this film is really nice. the scene where a pretty woman entered the tent and all the soldiers started to yowl and to act crazy. I like the humor of the movie.
 
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Shaddock said:
german: Zwickmühle, ausweglose Situation, paradoxe Situation
english: catch 22

lol. catch 22 sounds like something I have when I would play poker lol.

I putted your post into translator, but I´m not sure if I really understand it. I just nod with my head and hope that noone notices it : P
Click to expand...
IF I remember it first came from a book, about the Korean war the book inspired the Movie Mash , which in turn lead to the show mash, The books author coined the term to explain military logic the wrong way, the right way or the military way.
 
This reminds me of a scenario I could see happening in real life:

Doctor: You as a patient cannot say you have Autism. Only I can diagnose.
Patient: Well, you haven't diagnosed me yet.
Doctor: Exactly, as you do not have it.
Patient: But, I am good at details and research, and I know I have it from my symptoms.
Doctor: I think you are delusional, as I do not see here you being good at details or research.
Patient. I am sane. I know what I am talking about.
Doctor: Then why are you here looking for help if your are fine?
Patient: To get a diagnosis from you.
Doctor. If you had Autism, you'd have a diagnosis by now. You are wasting my time.
Patient. You all are quacks.
Doctor: You are now having hallucinations, as we are not ducks.
Patient: I never said you were a duck.
Doctor: So you just lied to me?
Patient: I never lied, you did!
Doctor: You not only lie, but you seem to be getting angry. I think you have AntiSocial Personality.
Patient: So, I have all those conditions but Autism?
Doctor, Yes, I think it's likely you have the other conditions instead, as you have symptoms of such.
Patient: So, you are not 100% sure?
Doctor: We take educated guesses. Medicine is not an exact science.
Patient: Oh, so you could be wrong that I do not have Autism?
Doctor: No, as you are the patient and must prove you are Autistic to me. We need not prove anything to you to diagnose you.
Patient: So, if I can prove I am Autistic, you'll state it as a diagnosis?
Doctor: No, as nobody in their right mind would want such a label.
Patient: Well, I want to be seen as Autistic.
Doctor: Thats absurd. Media and books portray all the difficulties with Autism. Nobody wants that.
Patient: I feel I have it.
Doctor: You cannot be Autistic and feel you have it, as textbooks I read said you'd have difficulties with feelings.
Patient: Ok, I know I have it. I do not feel it.
Doctor: Well, if you were Autistic you'd have brought me all the facts and details, instead of arguing with me.
Patient: You started this.
Doctor: And I will finish it. Do not come to my office until you say you do not have Autism.
Patient: So, if I say that, you'll finally diagnose me with Autism?
Doctor: No, because then I will say you are finally telling the truth.
 
Autism coping mechanism are 100% Catch-22's.

If you don't mask, you are ostracized or looked down on. If you do mask, then people don't believe you're autistic.
 
Tom said:
Catch 22: A situation in which a desired outcome or solution is impossible to attain because of a set of inherently illogical rules or conditions. (Urban Dictionary)

There are varying definitions out there but it broadly indicates a faulty logic.

For autistics I think it applies to a common misconception held by professionals as well as lay persons, that someone succeeding in navigating life is proof that that they aren't autistic to begin with.

So all the therapies, training, adaptations and coping skills (whether professionally and or self accomplished) will only work for autistics if they are not autistic. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
'Catch-22' and the Autism Spectrum "hits the nail on the head!"
 
A lot of us never doubted we were Aspies once we self diagnosed, I'm retired now no longer matters If I had known
sure would have saved me a lot of issues. I'm sure Steve Jobs would have appreciated knowing, not changing.
 
Like the doctor, I don't see a point in seeking diagnosis if you don't have problems. Why bother? Why label something as a pathology if it's a difference?
 
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