Behaviors she used to think were caused by bad parenting

[Ste11aeres]

Guys, what do you think of this article?
And even though the kids mentioned in it are presumably NT, do you think the different attitudes discussed in it ("bad parenting caused that 'bad' behavior" vs "Sometimes kids jsut do what kids do") are relevant in regards to how people view autistic/asperger kids and their parents?

Make sure to read the comments that people added to the article.

http://www.scarymommy.com/10-things-thought-caused-bad-parenting-kids/

 

[DC1346]

I am a child of the 60's and my parents were quite conservative and intolerant of unacceptable behavior.

A tantrum would have resulted in an immediate paddling.

Chewing with my mouth open after having been asked not to would have resulted in my being sent to my room without having finished dinner.

Refusal to talk to someone would have resulted in a time out and the loss of TV privileges.

Not wanting to sleep? I tried this once when I was six. My father said,"Okay, you may stay up for as long as you want." He then sat me on the sofa, took a seat facing me, and glared at me until I decided that I wanted to go to bed.

Lying or talking back? I was made to wash my mouth out with soap.

This is the only childhood I know. I didn't like it but it discouraged me from behaving in inappropriate ways.

I cannot imagine any other type of childhood and am having problems with understanding the points of view listed in the comments section. I mean, really ... let the kid scream if he wants to scream? Why would anyone want to do that?

My parents would have slapped me and that would have been that.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I mean, really ... let the kid scream if he wants to scream? Why would anyone want to do that?

Nobody wants that. But the cure is not always so simply.
Kids are all different, and parenting methods that work for one, don't work for another.
I've known some who threw tantrums that even they themselves couldn't control. There are some kids who throw deliberate tantrums because they know it will get them what they want. But there are other kids who have meltdowns that they can't control, and punishment can't stop the meltdown or prevent future ones.
As far as not sleeping goes, I wasn't reading stories of kids refusing to go to bed...I was reading stories of kids going to bed, and then not falling asleep when they were in bed. Who can control that? It's a bit like insomnia. Punishing an insomniac adult won't make him/her fall asleep.

The thing is, kids are different. And the reasons for their behaviors are various and different. In some cases, yes, the kid would stop if punished. With some other cases, no, that wouldn't work.

When I was a kid, I had physical trouble breathing through my nose. Maybe I had allergies, I don't know. But asking a kid who can't breath through their nose to keep their mouth shut while eating, doesn't work. No matter how harsh the punishment, it won't outweigh the body's punishment of not being able to breath.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in discipline and appropriate aversives. I have no kids, but I give my dog corrections, and I have an e-collar for him. But kids are individual, and individual situations are different from one another, and sometimes the authority figure is the one who has to adjust.
Also, people consider some things rude that shouldn't be considered rude. (For instance, you shouldn't teach a child that they have to allow a stranger to touch their hair, or hug them, or kiss them, or all those intrusive things adults think they have a right to do to a kid without the kid's consent. How will that kid know later on that they have the right to say no if they find themselves in a situation when the person wanting to touch them is a peodophile?)

 

[AsheSkyler]

I laughed so hard through all ten of those. I like their sense of humor! Indeed, sometimes it feels like the only way to get a kid to be remotely quiet is to muzzle them! But then they'd chew through it, take it off, and smack you with it while laughing maniacally.

I was raised by strict, conservative, and traditional parents. It wasn't a pleasant childhood, but it worked in more ways than one. My kid is a handful, to the point even my parents are wary at the hypothetical thought of if they had to raise him. But he's a good kid. No kid is perfect and some things are just natural. The tantrums are slowly going away as he learns to communicate better.

Oh, um, topic question! Erm... Honestly? I think most people don't know jack about raising kids and I've half a mind to smack nearly every one that tells me how to raise mine. You really don't know what raising kids is like unless you've dragged one kicking and screaming through childhood. And I've still an urge to backhand all those twits who say my mother was bad! When I was a kid, everybody would praise me and my sister for being so well-behaved until they found out my mom would let us ask her why she told us to do something and she would explain it. We knew the difference in tone of voice to know what was safe to question, like why she wanted us to use the wooden spoons while cooking instead of the metal ones, versus the tone she used when we were in danger like a hiding snake or oncoming car. But, no, apparently she was supposed to use the DO IT NOW voice all the time. And now that I've got a kid, I have to deal with those fruitcakes who think if you so much as raise your voice to a kid, even if it's just to call them in to supper (and you risk trouble if they play out of sight these days), then you are the worst child abuser in the history of torture and they will drag you through every court system on the planet. ARGH!

 

[Ste11aeres]

Oh, um, topic question! Erm... Honestly? I think most people don't know jack about raising kids and I've half a mind to smack nearly every one that tells me how to raise mine. You really don't know what raising kids is like unless you've dragged one kicking and screaming through childhood. And I've still an urge to backhand all those twits who say my mother was bad! When I was a kid, everybody would praise me and my sister for being so well-behaved until they found out my mom would let us ask her why she told us to do something and she would explain it. We knew the difference in tone of voice to know what was safe to question, like why she wanted us to use the wooden spoons while cooking instead of the metal ones, versus the tone she used when we were in danger like a hiding snake or oncoming car. But, no, apparently she was supposed to use the DO IT NOW voice all the time. And now that I've got a kid, I have to deal with those fruitcakes who think if you so much as raise your voice to a kid, even if it's just to call them in to supper (and you risk trouble if they play out of sight these days), then you are the worst child abuser in the history of torture and they will drag you through every court system on the planet. ARGH!

Oh man, people go from one extreme to another, don't they?

We knew the difference in tone of voice to know what was safe to question, like why she wanted us to use the wooden spoons while cooking instead of the metal ones, versus the tone she used when we were in danger like a hiding snake or oncoming car.

I like there being different levels of authority-in-act. As an authority figure, I would love to be able to communicate different levels like that.

Heck, even with my dog: stop sniffing and let's keep walking, vs Don't eat that toad!

 

[DC1346]

For instance, you shouldn't teach a child that they have to allow a stranger to touch their hair, or hug them, or kiss them, or all those intrusive things adults think they have a right to do to a kid without the kid's consent. How will that kid know later on that they have the right to say no if they find themselves in a situation when the person wanting to touch them is a peodophile?

And yet that is PRECISELY what my parents did. I was ordered to accept the moist embraces and even wetter kisses of various Aunts, Great Aunts, Grandmothers, and family friends who were known to me as (honorary) Aunts and Uncles.

My father made me wear leg braces because he thought I was excessively clumsy.

I remember visiting an Uncle who had made duck with cherry sauce for dinner. I love duck but hate cherries and when my Uncle insisted that I have some of his cherry sauce, my father made me take it and he forced me to eat it.

I spent my childhood doing all sorts of things I didn't want to do ... but the point I would make is this.

I learned to behave. I learned manners. I did not talk back. I did not argue. I learned to follow instructions and in doing so I also learned many of society's unwritten rules of conduct.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I laughed so hard through all ten of those. I like their sense of humor! Indeed, sometimes it feels like the only way to get a kid to be remotely quiet is to muzzle them! But then they'd chew through it, take it off, and smack you with it while laughing maniacally.

I was raised by strict, conservative, and traditional parents. It wasn't a pleasant childhood, but it worked in more ways than one. My kid is a handful, to the point even my parents are wary at the hypothetical thought of if they had to raise him. But he's a good kid. No kid is perfect and some things are just natural. The tantrums are slowly going away as he learns to communicate better.

Oh, um, topic question! Erm... Honestly? I think most people don't know jack about raising kids and I've half a mind to smack nearly every one that tells me how to raise mine. You really don't know what raising kids is like unless you've dragged one kicking and screaming through childhood. And I've still an urge to backhand all those twits who say my mother was bad! When I was a kid, everybody would praise me and my sister for being so well-behaved until they found out my mom would let us ask her why she told us to do something and she would explain it. We knew the difference in tone of voice to know what was safe to question, like why she wanted us to use the wooden spoons while cooking instead of the metal ones, versus the tone she used when we were in danger like a hiding snake or oncoming car. But, no, apparently she was supposed to use the DO IT NOW voice all the time. And now that I've got a kid, I have to deal with those fruitcakes who think if you so much as raise your voice to a kid, even if it's just to call them in to supper (and you risk trouble if they play out of sight these days), then you are the worst child abuser in the history of torture and they will drag you through every court system on the planet. ARGH!

Oh man, people go from one extreme to another, don't they?

I like there being different levels of authority-in-act. As an authority figure, I would love to be able to communicate different levels like that.

Heck, even with my dog: stop sniffing and let's keep walking, vs Don't eat that toad!

One of my Child Development Professors used to say that there are three styles of child care-giving for us to choose from: Authoritarian, Authoritative, and Permissive. We should avoid the Authoritarian style, and avoid the Permissive style; we should instead be Authoritative.

Authoritarian is in charge, yes, strict, yes, but with no understanding or sympathy for the child's point of view or natural instincts. Even if there is love, the child cannot tell that there is any love.
Permissive is loving and accepting, but sets no rules, no boundaries, the adult has no real authority.
Authoritative means one is an Authority Figure, yes, and there are rules boundaries and limitations (as Cesar Millan would say) and there is also love and understanding.

(Speaking of Cesar Millan, people hate him because he is authoritative towards dogs, and-just as is the case with children-this "positive only" approach is in vogue with regards to dogs, in which you ignore bad behavior and deliberately try not to be your dog's master.
I wonder if people realize how much we preschool teachers use discipline. No, we don't use harsh punishments. We don't hit, spank, or yell. But we have firmness. There is a schedule, and we are sticking to it. Consistency is everything. However, good preschool teachers understand their kids as individuals, and can make allowances for individual differences including those caused by ASD or other such things.)

 

[AsheSkyler]

I like there being different levels of authority-in-act. As an authority figure, I would love to be able to communicate different levels like that.

Heck, even with my dog: stop sniffing and let's keep walking, vs Don't eat that toad!

I loved it then and I really love it now. And even when she had to use the stern/loud voice, we were always able to ask why after the task had been completed if it wasn't obvious at the time, such as with an out-of-sight viper. I'm hoping my kid will be like me enough I can use the same method with him when he gets older. Not much use now since he's 3 and politely explaining that it hurts to be struck by a flying rock just means to him that mommy is not yet mad enough to be old-fashioned and he can do it a little longer.

One of my Child Development Professors used to say that there are three styles of child care-giving for us to choose from: Authoritarian, Authoritative, and Permissive. We should avoid the Authoritarian style, and avoid the Permissive style; we should instead be Authoritative.

Authoritarian is in charge, yes, strict, yes, but with no understanding or sympathy for the child's point of view or natural instincts. Even if there is love, the child cannot tell that there is any love.
Permissive is loving and accepting, but sets no rules, no boundaries, the adult has no real authority.
Authoritative means one is an Authority Figure, yes, and there are rules boundaries and limitations (as Cesar Millan would say) and there is also love and understanding.

(Speaking of Cesar Millan, people hate him because he is authoritative towards dogs, and-just as is the case with children-this "positive only" approach is in vogue with regards to dogs, in which you ignore bad behavior and deliberately try not to be your dog's master.
I wonder if people realize how much we preschool teachers use discipline. No, we don't use harsh punishments. We don't hit, spank, or yell. But we have firmness. There is a schedule, and we are sticking to it. Consistency is everything. However, good preschool teachers understand their kids as individuals, and can make allowances for individual differences including those caused by ASD or other such things.)

I like that short list. It's a good one. I've definitely been opting for Authoritative. I don't want a little puppet. I want a well-balanced individual that knows the difference between right and wrong and can take care of himself, and what you described as Authoritative seemed the best route to take for it.

There's also that odd dynamic on how kids seem to change their reaction to discipline depending on who is doing it. From permissive to authoritative to authoritarian parents I've heard the same lament of how their kid will not mind but as soon as a stranger does something light like a time-out then their kid will be quite mindful of that stranger. Of course, there's also the reverse where a kid will only mind a parent and go hog wild with anybody else. I've heard that complaint from quite a few babysitters and other caregivers about those one or two kids under their care that don't seem to respond to anything they do.

I learned to behave. I learned manners. I did not talk back. I did not argue. I learned to follow instructions and in doing so I also learned many of society's unwritten rules of conduct.

Sometimes the ends do justify the means. I went through a similar childhood, although our fun with soap involved cleaning the dang house from top to bottom. It's certainly not always fun or remotely pleasant, but you learn about cause and effect, action and consequence, and if you're compatible with your parents you will turn out to be a good person because of it.

One of the most annoying one of society's unwritten rules I learned is that you are to mindlessly obey anybody who tells you to do something. I actually had a few instances where an adult would try to get me to disobey my parents (and it would be a reasonable rule like not crossing the road without letting my parents know where I was going or getting their permission to do it in the first place) and then they would have the gall to go and whine to my parents about how uncooperative and stubborn I was! Geez!

 

[Nitro]

I believe there needs to be a fair amount of structure in the parenting process.There has to be an authority figure to guide every child down the assumed correct path. Every child is different in some way,not just the ones with ASD.If you let a dog run over you,it will do as it pleases. If you reward one while using a nice tone,it instills a positive effect when the command is obeyed. A stern correction and the denial of a reward also shows it the negative effects of a negative cause.

There is also a fine line between being stern and being abusive that needs to be kept in check for the outcome to be favorable in the endgame. A child should respect the parent,not fear them.Generally if my Mom called my name,there were degrees of her tone that were implied as to how significant her commands were. If she used my first and middle name she was pretty serious.I still didn't obey,her methods escalated to a butt whoopin' and being sent to bed. Crying was just an opportunity to see her escalate it to more spankings so I really had something to cry about.

You need to remember that psychology is one tough subject for most on the planet. There are no real set of instruction that come with a baby for parenting as each person develops in their own way.
I feel that cause and effect has to be instituted as it was in my childhood. After the task at hand is achieved,rewards are in order,along with an explanation of why any discipline was used if results weren't favorable.
I am quite familiar with the taste of soap and was denied things I wanted for acting up,plain and simple. I also agree that if a child is known to have a condition,there should be some allowances for them,but on the other hand,autism wasn't a huge topic or interest during my childhood,so it was never a part of my equation.

I wonder if in fact the child who refuses to go to sleep possibly had a diet issue of being all sugared up before bedtime.
The kids I was involved in raising were not allowed sugar or carbohydrates in most any form after 5PM to prevent them from bouncing off the walls until the wee hours.Oranges or tangerines,not apples or higher fructose items for snacks after dinner and only water or milk,not soda and candy. It was how my Mom worked it and it did apply to any of the children I helped raise.

Was the tantrum a meltdown,or just another childhood tantrum? I get to see a three year old girl who doesn't have an ASD do some pretty freaky stuff every day,alongside her well behaved sister. Being close neighbors,I can also tell you that it isn't from a lack of discipline or structure on the parental front,Elliott Marie is just Elliott Marie while her older sister Bella is Bella and nothing more.

 

[DC1346]

One of the most annoying one of society's unwritten rules I learned is that you are to mindlessly obey anybody who tells you to do something. I actually had a few instances where an adult would try to get me to disobey my parents (and it would be a reasonable rule like not crossing the road without letting my parents know where I was going or getting their permission to do it in the first place) and then they would have the gall to go and whine to my parents about how uncooperative and stubborn I was! Geez!

Yep ... you're right. Parental conditioning taught me to unconditionally follow orders without question. There were times when I felt almost Germanic about this ... to the point of wanting to click my heels together and to say, "Zum befehl!"

This did not serve me well because when I was a first year teacher back in 1982, I worked with a very abusive administrator who was so mean that he once threw a stapler at my head. It didn't occur to me until years later that school administrators are not allowed to throw staplers at their teachers (or anyone else).

Having learned that I'm an Aspie last April, I am taking full advantage of the Americans with Disabilities Act and when the school office manager yelled at me (not once but twice), I filed a complaint with building admin and requested reasonable accommodations under the ADA. The accommodation I was granted was that the office manager is not allowed to initiate contact with me ... and if I need to talk to her, I have permission to take a colleague along as emotional support (and as a witness) should she revert to being mean.

It took YEARS for me to learn to question authority.

 

[AsheSkyler]

The kids I was involved in raising were not allowed sugar or carbohydrates in most any form after 5PM to prevent them from bouncing off the walls until the wee hours.

We cut ours off around the same time. It's not so bad now that he's more used to it and it doesn't have the same effect on him, but I'll never forget that night he had his first sucker...

Yep ... you're right. Parental conditioning taught me to unconditionally follow orders without question. There were times when I felt almost Germanic about this ... to the point of wanting to click my heels together and to say, "Zum befehl!"

This did not serve me well because when I was a first year teacher back in 1982, I worked with a very abusive administrator who was so mean that he once threw a stapler at my head. It didn't occur to me until years later that school administrators are not allowed to throw staplers at their teachers (or anyone else).

Having learned that I'm an Aspie last April, I am taking full advantage of the Americans with Disabilities Act and when the school office manager yelled at me (not once but twice), I filed a complaint with building admin and requested reasonable accommodations under the ADA. The accommodation I was granted was that the office manager is not allowed to initiate contact with me ... and if I need to talk to her, I have permission to take a colleague along as emotional support (and as a witness) should she revert to being mean.

It took YEARS for me to learn to question authority.

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I was incredibly fortunate that my mom taught us to question everything and my dad taught us to stand our ground. It gets you in a different sort of trouble though. I've had to be in the manager's office several times about my "bad attitude" because I had little tolerance for getting groped, shoved, pushed, and generally mistreated by my coworkers. My managers never could answer WHY my coworkers were allowed to treat me like that and I couldn't tell them to stop. Story of most of my childhood trying to socialize with other kids too.