Calling out questionable behavior

[LadyS]

I have this bad (?) habit of calling out questionable/deceptive/hypocritical behavior in others. I only really do it to people I know or people I know who should know better. In the past several years I have learned to hold my tongue or look the other way but my impulsiveness sometimes get the better of me.

I also attribute this to perhaps an Autistic trait that relates to not being able to handle conflict or false evidence. If it isn't right, why not correct it? But with people, I understand very few like being corrected. Ego. I get it. But it's really hard when behaviors like that starts to spiral and affect people around them.

Recently I've been getting rather annoyed with a longtime friend whose behavior is questionable, and not just to me. Others have pointed out too. An example, a group of us play a daily game and share our scores each day. While the rest of us have varied scores each day depending on the difficulty that day, she gets a very high score every single time. You can even see that some of her plays are incredibly lucky nearly impossible from a statistical standpoint. (And others have noticed too but don't say anything).

I decided enough was enough (because other behaviors were also bothering me aside from this one). So I called her out and asked what her strategy was which turned out didn't align with anything nor made any sense. A few of us, on the side, decided she was most likely lying and cheating.

Now its just a game, right? Not a big deal. One friend commented that I really went after her (and isn't the first time) and implied that it didn't really bother her too much and that, that's just how she is. Her own sisters knows as well but they say it's just easier to just look the other way.

I replied that not saying anything continues to enable said behavior and it can also filter into other more important things (which is already true for me and others). It was just easier to point it out for a trivial game. Later today she shared her score and as we predicted her score came down a notch.

Initially I felt guilty wondering if I came down on her too hard, insinuating that there was more going on then she was letting on but half of me feels justified because isn't it true that we should all be better? I also saw it as a method to gain more attention and it succeeded with others willingly giving it.

I guess with me, I prefer that others tell me if I'm doing something wrong or uncomfortable so I can correct that behavior or the very least make sure that I do better next time. I don't like people dancing around something because they don't want to hurt my "feelings" (as if I'm a delicate flower). I want to be better and do better. I want truth, not games. That's my ultimate goal. I don't expect perfection in others but when I see serial deceptive behaviors it's hard to just keep my trap shut.

Maybe there's a time and place for it? Like not in front of others? But I've done that as well and the behavior continues because others don't say anything.

I guess I wish people were just less ego/emotional and more reasoning and honest with themselves and others. For me those things affect me the same way bright lights, loud noises, social stuff do. It just throws me off balance and hurts my brain.

End rant.

 

[Aspychata]

I have to kinda call someone on their behavior. Some people l just ignore it. I am wondering if l am just being baited. I did tell someone they were gaslighting me. That felt good. And l said it with little emotion.

 

[Judge]

It may be part of the aspect of two things common to autistic people.

First, how many of us default to dealing quite directly with people.

Second, to consider those of us who tend to think conditionally in a broad manner. Not only on a "black and white" basis, but also on a right or wrong basis. Though one person's right may be another person's wrong, which to say the least colors that equation.

 

[Aspychata]

It may be part of the aspect of two things common to autistic people.

First, how many of us default to dealing quite directly with people.

Second, to consider those of us who tend to think conditionally in a broad manner. Not only on a "black and white" basis, but also on a right or wrong basis. Though one person's right may be another person's wrong, which to say the least colors that equation.

Good points, we judge right and wrong, we judge their intention, then we to judge our emotional biases due to triggers or trauma. Even the context of the event, guides our final decision. My mom, l won't say anything, my friend, it depends, work situation- maybe.

 

[Thinx]

Yes generally people don't point out other's faults directly and don't like it if theirs are pointed out. We mean no harm, but they don't like it. Probably in this case, as the person's fibs are fairly obvious, people feel sorry for her? & that you are perhaps not seeing the reasons she may be doing this.

Does she feel inferior for example? Does she have low self esteem that she over compensates for? How could you approach offering feedback more kindly? As this does make it easier for her to take in, too. Also, have you asked her if anything's wrong?

 

[LadyS]

Yes generally people don't point out other's faults directly and don't like it if theirs are pointed out. We mean no harm, but they don't like it. Probably in this case, as the person's fibs are fairly obvious, people feel sorry for her? & that you are perhaps not seeing the reasons she may be doing this.

Does she feel inferior for example? Does she have low self esteem that she over compensates for? How could you approach offering feedback more kindly? As this does make it easier for her to take in, too. Also, have you asked her if anything's wrong?

All good thoughts and questions. I boil down most of her attention seeking behaviors down to insecurities. How that came about I'm still trying to figure out as I know her history well, and I think she is too trying to figure it out.

I have spoken to her in private before this about other attention-seeking behaviors that rub certain people the wrong way because she was getting some blowback from those closest to her. I said very subtly and nicely as possible that not everyone has it as good as she does so certain behaviors can come off as humblebragging and annoying. After all that she replied that she didn't mean to make others feel bad about themselves and to let her know if it gets too much. (Ummm I thought I just did?) And continued with the same behaviors as if it completely flew over her head.

It does feel like overcompensation but she actually lives a pretty charmed life in comparison to most people I know, and I do know this as she's much like a sister and also an oversharer (TMI big time). So who knows... maybe it's why others have now given up and turned the other cheek. Some have a hard time changing.

 

[Suzette]

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling another person on their bad behavior.
But in doing so, you must be prepared for the consequences.

Often times anothers bad behavior will simply will have no objective negative value. Unless ones cheating is deniing yourself of material gain, that cheating has no objective negative value.

And sometimes the net effect of outing anothers bad behavior is causing valueless drama that does nothing but create distraction, chaos, and a slim sense of righteousness.

The question best asked of ones self before waving your sword of justice might very well be "Do you want to be right or happy?"

(edited for clarity)

 

[LadyS]

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling another person on their bad behavior.
But in doing so you must be prepared for the consequences of doing so.

Often times anothers bad behavior will simply will have no objective negative value. Unless ones cheating is deniing yourself of material gain, that cheating has no objective negative value.

And sometimes the net effect of outing anothers bad behavior is causing valueless drama that does nothing but create distraction, chaos, and a slim sense of righteousness.

So oft times, the question best asked of ones self before waving your sword of justice might very well be "Do you want to be right or happy?"

I guess in this case one person's actions are causing negative reactions in others. So her happiness is causing unhappiness in others, which in turn is pushing them away which is stressing for her (but still completely oblivious as to why even after I tried to hint as to why it was happening). The good thing is she is still speaking to me normally as if nothing happened so no drama as far as I know.

 

[watersprite]

Some have a hard time changing.

We can (mostly)!control what we say to people who we wish would change, but we can’t control what happens then, with the situation and person after we’ve said it.

That is now a new scenario.

If you do not like how a person behaves, maybe just move on(?)

 

[LadyS]

We can (mostly)!control what we say to people who we wish would change, but we can’t control what happens then, with the situation and person after we’ve said it.

That is now a new scenario.

If you do not like how a person behaves, maybe just move on(?)

I have in a sense. I don't seek out their company anymore and keep a distance which is kind of hard to since she lives nearby and we grew up together, our parents are friends, we are in the same friend circle, etc. But it's definitely not at the same level as it used to be. overall I'm proud of myself for no longer tolerating it.

 

[LadyS]

Mostly another vent to myself ... had to get real with another friend of mine. Some big time friendship testing this week. This time one who's all words and no reciprocating action...someone who likes the concept of friendship on paper but no true follow through the past few years.

I'm realizing this friend and the other one are alike in that they continue to stay stagnant in the progression of maturity and relationships.

She suggested dinner tomorrow to talk more and try to mend it but I'm curious if I'm going to continue to get the same barrel of conflicting excuses or maybe some long awaited maturity. Time to throw down some more

 

[LadyS]

To myself again, this second friend who asked me if anything was wrong and why I was acting weird/distant . We decided to have dinner to try to catch up and mend things. So after some chit chat I tried to lay the list of things where I felt off and she immediately got defensive. There were some things in there where the behavior was wrong on her end but very little to no remorse. Instead it was more turning it around back on me and playing the blame game, that I should have told her before and not about the incidents themselves. When people want to paint themselves as victims instead dealing with their own transgressions in a mature way, I just can't.

So dinner did not go well at all. All I got was defense mode. In this case though she asked me what was wrong and what made me distant and she couldn't handle the answer. If you can't take the heat... don't ask.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

In the first case, I think you have been doing really well. As for the oblique comments you got from those who tacitly agree with you, it probably boils down to the same as I think: back off a bit, without sacrificing principle. The person concerned is more likely to want to nonchalantly (as is her right) correct her behaviour when she thinks no-one is looking. She is getting exposure anxiety just as much as the rest of us. She will want to give herself her own excuse for pulling herself up by her own bootstraps and she can think it is only normal to, of her own accord, crib the idea from people who talked to her which is very different from doing what she is told.

In the second case, perhaps this was too much too soon, one could start by mentioning 33 % of the instances, and leave the rest out of the picture till hypothetical other times? As for which 33 %, ask your "Muse" to help you:
- i - make a reasonably light hearted and imaginative selection,
- ii - or else something so obviously grave she will welcome the opportunity to put it right . . .
And more probably " i ".
It's a question of working with people's emotions rather than against them. What improvements do they seem on the verge of daring on their own accord? Keep the conversation relaxed and let this emerge.

 

[LadyS]

In the first case, I think you have been doing really well. As for the oblique comments you got from those who tacitly agree with you, it probably boils down to the same as I think: back off a bit, without sacrificing principle. The person concerned is more likely to want to nonchalantly (as is her right) correct her behaviour when she thinks no-one is looking. She is getting exposure anxiety just as much as the rest of us. She will want to give herself her own excuse for pulling herself up by her own bootstraps and she can think it is only normal to, of her own accord, crib the idea from people who talked to her which is very different from doing what she is told.

In the second case, perhaps this was too much too soon, one could start by mentioning 33 % of the instances, and leave the rest out of the picture till hypothetical other times? As for which 33 %, ask your "Muse" to help you:
- i - make a reasonably light hearted and imaginative selection,
- ii - or else something so obviously grave she will welcome the opportunity to put it right . . .
And more probably " i ".
It's a question of working with people's emotions rather than against them. What improvements do they seem on the verge of daring on their own accord? Keep the conversation relaxed and let this emerge.

I have tried this is the past, casually bringing up individual instances instead of all in one go. The problem was that all I got was a barrel of weird excuses. I mean that the excuses just kept changing and were conflicting to each other. At one point I got 3 separate and different excuses within one hour for one incident. I didn't even pry, she volunteered it herself and then gave a 4th excuse to another friend when she asked. When that keeps happening, how can I really believe anything she is saying when brought up casually?

Regardless, I guess to me if I found out a good friend felt something off and hurt by my actions the first thing I would do is apologize and ponder on what i did, not say "I'm sorry you felt that way" and act hostile which was the case. Never seen her so angry, and she's the nicest person you'll ever meet. And many times explosive anger and straight denial can be an admittance of guilt.

Later I talked it over with another friend and because of past instances, we agreed that she just can't handle confrontation or admit that she can be wrong too due to her self-centered nature and that she's not very capable of empathy because of it. 20 yrs of friendship brought us to this conclusion.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

I have tried this in the past ...

There are of course times to bring up more instances at once. And people to just avoid. Maybe someone else will help them. Maybe they will be more self assured in 20 years (if there's peace in the world that long).

I meant the first part of my comment more importantly.

 

[Aspychata]

Friendships are constantly evolving or one of us evolves and the other doesn't. Or we transition to other friends who we connect better with. Maybe you have evolved and see things that you couldn't acknowledge prior to the present. Sometimes people were never sincere in their offer of friendship.

 

[LadyS]

Friendships are constantly evolving or one of us evolves and the other doesn't. Or we transition to other friends who we connect better with. Maybe you have evolved and see things that you couldn't acknowledge prior to the present. Sometimes people were never sincere in their offer of friendship.

Yes this is exactly the case. In this case, we've evolved and she has been slow to mature. But she did display the signs of someone who wasn't reliable very early on and we just let it slide so many times. There came a point where we had to reprioritize our relationships and she came into question for me. But everything you said rang true.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

...

You've still done this person a favour already, because she can learn from mulling over the episode in her own time. I don't like to recall I was rather a dullard in my 30s.

 

[Owliet]

I have this bad (?) habit of calling out questionable/deceptive/hypocritical behavior in others. I only really do it to people I know or people I know who should know better. In the past several years I have learned to hold my tongue or look the other way but my impulsiveness sometimes get the better of me.

I also attribute this to perhaps an Autistic trait that relates to not being able to handle conflict or false evidence. If it isn't right, why not correct it? But with people, I understand very few like being corrected. Ego. I get it. But it's really hard when behaviors like that starts to spiral and affect people around them.

Recently I've been getting rather annoyed with a longtime friend whose behavior is questionable, and not just to me. Others have pointed out too. An example, a group of us play a daily game and share our scores each day. While the rest of us have varied scores each day depending on the difficulty that day, she gets a very high score every single time. You can even see that some of her plays are incredibly lucky nearly impossible from a statistical standpoint. (And others have noticed too but don't say anything).

I decided enough was enough (because other behaviors were also bothering me aside from this one). So I called her out and asked what her strategy was which turned out didn't align with anything nor made any sense. A few of us, on the side, decided she was most likely lying and cheating.

Now its just a game, right? Not a big deal. One friend commented that I really went after her (and isn't the first time) and implied that it didn't really bother her too much and that, that's just how she is. Her own sisters knows as well but they say it's just easier to just look the other way.

I replied that not saying anything continues to enable said behavior and it can also filter into other more important things (which is already true for me and others). It was just easier to point it out for a trivial game. Later today she shared her score and as we predicted her score came down a notch.

Initially I felt guilty wondering if I came down on her too hard, insinuating that there was more going on then she was letting on but half of me feels justified because isn't it true that we should all be better? I also saw it as a method to gain more attention and it succeeded with others willingly giving it.

I guess with me, I prefer that others tell me if I'm doing something wrong or uncomfortable so I can correct that behavior or the very least make sure that I do better next time. I don't like people dancing around something because they don't want to hurt my "feelings" (as if I'm a delicate flower). I want to be better and do better. I want truth, not games. That's my ultimate goal. I don't expect perfection in others but when I see serial deceptive behaviors it's hard to just keep my trap shut.

Maybe there's a time and place for it? Like not in front of others? But I've done that as well and the behavior continues because others don't say anything.

I guess I wish people were just less ego/emotional and more reasoning and honest with themselves and others. For me those things affect me the same way bright lights, loud noises, social stuff do. It just throws me off balance and hurts my brain.

End rant.

I’m quite good about this...now. I used to call out any perceived questionable behavior when I was younger. Obviously, this did not make me very popular. To my black and white thinking, I never considered the gray areas and would be rather blunt in my calling out regardless of people’s circumstances or feelings. Now, I am a little more careful. Instead, I avoid people who do something that I know is wrong or perceived to be wrong. Or those who start to irritate me or if I’m suspicious of their motivations, I just cease contact altogether. My experiences have taught me that people don’t really appreciate me being honest with them in this regard, nor is it worth the fuss that they kick up. Sometimes m I do slip up and blurt things out but I’ve made a lot of improvements in this.