Can autism be a philosophical disorder as well?

[risootser]

When it comes to relationship with others I do not really feel anything more than an outsider.

Life situations have made me extremely reserved when it comes to showing any sort of superficial reaction towards everyday life. I do not live here and now. It is like I feel empathy but I can not show specific kinds of sympathy. In fact as I have put myself through a hard path it gets very hard to show relational responses because I have tortured myself and excluded myself from a human experience by being hard ass to myself. I have not allowed myself to follow my own feelings. I shut those down as soon as they arise. It is hard to even describe my friendships in childhood (those were actually real) as time has passed on and I become more and more of a shell of a human body. This is why I was diagnosed as autistic.

I have a very hardline irrational logic behind all of this. It is like I tend to think myself and humanity being too faulty in order to have a right to prosper.

 

[Thinx]

Sounds like you have generalised a sense of worthlessness that was instilled in you in childhood. That's tough, because in childhood adults and circumstances can shape our idea of what reality is, and it's then quite confusing when we start to try to unpick that as an adult, especially when autism is also a factor.

CBT has some useful reality testing procedures which are simple and effective, can be done on paper and are in many CBT self help books. The overall approach of CBT may not be great, but it has some useful tools, I hope this might be helpful.

It sounds good to me that you are speaking about this, and that you have so accurately analysed it. As if part of you recognises that there is more you can get from the world. Being hard on yourself is probably an internalisation of others being hard on you.

 

[Giraffes]

Disconnect from your feeling and how they feel in your body can be a hard thing,sympathy is feeling sorry for someone, empathy the ability to see anothers perspective that's a key difficulty with Autism,having single track processing and a lack of understanding of body language, facial expressions and social convention can disarm me and result in anxiety, and loneliness, anger is often a emotion that can surface when a person finds emotional expression tough and that's more reasons to shut feelings down and remain within ourselves, emotional unavailability often developes from a difficult childhood and rejection,there is a way forward........ I found CBT helpful, meditation and yoga to gain body awareness and a sence of calm and this forum that gives me a voice, sounding board and a whole new experience of not feeling alone.

 

[Darwin]

To answer the question in the title, no.

Because, if there is not evidence that someone has had autistic traits in their childhood but are only noticed in their adulthood, it can not be diagnosed as autism spectrum disorder. That’s because it is a developmental disorder. If you did not have social difficulties (along with the other criteria that identify autism) during your childhood, you are not autistic.
It cannot be considered as a “philosophical disorder” because children at the age when they start showing autistic traits (2-5 years old) are not able to even understand philosophy. (I have never tried teaching philosophy to children; maybe they can, but I’m sure not to the level of understanding philosophy about existence or the purpose of life, for example.)

What you described sounds like nihilism to me. I am interested in philosophy, and experience such feelings of meaninglessness of emotions and life often.

 

[Rasputin]

When it comes to relationship with others I do not really feel anything more than an outsider.

Life situations have made me extremely reserved when it comes to showing any sort of superficial reaction towards everyday life. I do not live here and now. It is like I feel empathy but I can not show specific kinds of sympathy. In fact as I have put myself through a hard path it gets very hard to show relational responses because I have tortured myself and excluded myself from a human experience by being hard ass to myself. I have not allowed myself to follow my own feelings. I shut those down as soon as they arise. It is hard to even describe my friendships in childhood (those were actually real) as time has passed on and I become more and more of a shell of a human body. This is why I was diagnosed as autistic.

I have a very hardline irrational logic behind all of this. It is like I tend to think myself and humanity being too faulty in order to have a right to prosper.

As @Darwin accurately noted, ASD is a developmental disorder that begins during childhood. However, doctors are still learning about autism, and it's causes are not well known.it is not a purely neurological disorder as some believe. There are metabolic disorders which may accompany ASD, as is the case with Hyperuricosuric Autism which I have. You mentioned "Life Experiences" causing you to be reserved, and this could point to "environmental" factors affecting your development.

You mentioned being diagnosed with ASD, so my assumption is that you were affected at an early age by environmental factors (and possibly other factors) and that you were diagnosed as a result of developmental manifestations, and not philosophical reasons.

 

[Aspychata]

Excellent posts here. Guess we all suffer this to varing degrees, it's when you start to question it - the door opens. You said you were hard on yourself. I think this sometimes gets down to survival mode, we do what we need to to get by. If that means being hardass on one's self in the bane of pure existance, then we accept this black and white thinking period. We can be rocks and nothing can stand in our way. I never see it as to prosper, l just see pure survival level and anything else is a deviation.
I pretty much existed this way for my early years. Do you have any more personal reflection on how you see this? This opens the door to more self-discovery.

 

[Fino]

What is a philosophical disorder?

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

Thoughts are not reality.

 

[Shamar]

When it comes to relationship with others I do not really feel anything more than an outsider.

Life situations have made me extremely reserved when it comes to showing any sort of superficial reaction towards everyday life. I do not live here and now. It is like I feel empathy but I can not show specific kinds of sympathy. In fact as I have put myself through a hard path it gets very hard to show relational responses because I have tortured myself and excluded myself from a human experience by being hard ass to myself. I have not allowed myself to follow my own feelings. I shut those down as soon as they arise. It is hard to even describe my friendships in childhood (those were actually real) as time has passed on and I become more and more of a shell of a human body. This is why I was diagnosed as autistic.

I have a very hardline irrational logic behind all of this. It is like I tend to think myself and humanity being too faulty in order to have a right to prosper.

From MY observations, autism is a brain wiring and brain chemistry problem. HOWEVER, it is fully capable of altering your philosophy. I have gone through major depression (why me?), loneliness (why no friends), cynical (nothing will change), arrogant (everyone I meet is an idiot), loner (people are not worth the bother) to calm acceptance (since my diagnosis at age 60). Your first sentence pretty much describes my life in regards to others. Besides PDD-NOS/Asperger's, I am also AD(no H)D, anthrophobic, and alexethemic.

As you explore, don't just focus on who you are, but also learn WHY you are.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

When it comes to relationship with others I do not really feel anything more than an outsider.

Life situations have made me extremely reserved when it comes to showing any sort of superficial reaction towards everyday life. I do not live here and now. It is like I feel empathy but I can not show specific kinds of sympathy. In fact as I have put myself through a hard path it gets very hard to show relational responses because I have tortured myself and excluded myself from a human experience by being hard ass to myself. I have not allowed myself to follow my own feelings. I shut those down as soon as they arise. It is hard to even describe my friendships in childhood (those were actually real) as time has passed on and I become more and more of a shell of a human body. This is why I was diagnosed as autistic.

I have a very hardline irrational logic behind all of this. It is like I tend to think myself and humanity being too faulty in order to have a right to prosper.

My friendships were real but I was occasionally nasty to friends (I didn't know why) and have often felt distant. And I've never set store by gooeyness. But I always consciously felt I & others deserved good. My mum knew sensory overwhelmingness was too much for me but we didn't have a name for it. My "more or less diagnosis" at age 42 was a great joy to me. A workplace coach who was there for dyslexic colleagues, pointed me towards practical ideas and so did some writers. I feel I have got time and space to deal with relationships at my own pace.

 

[AngelaS267]

To answer the question in the title, no.

Because, if there is not evidence that someone has had autistic traits in their childhood but are only noticed in their adulthood, it can not be diagnosed as autism spectrum disorder. That’s because it is a developmental disorder. If you did not have social difficulties (along with the other criteria that identify autism) during your childhood, you are not autistic.
It cannot be considered as a “philosophical disorder” because children at the age when they start showing autistic traits (2-5 years old) are not able to even understand philosophy. (I have never tried teaching philosophy to children; maybe they can, but I’m sure not to the level of understanding philosophy about existence or the purpose of life, for example.)

What you described sounds like nihilism to me. I am interested in philosophy, and experience such feelings of meaninglessness of emotions and life often.

Well, with regards to his friendships in childhood, maybe he meant that he had friends despite his autistic traits coming through. Kids aren't as judgmental as adults and teenagers. So if you are quiet, or you stim a little bit in class, or you have a quirky eccentric personality, kids will still want to play with you. I know that was the case for me as a child. I had friends and I never saw my traits as an issue until I got into middle school when clicks start to form. THEN I couldn't for the life of me figure out where I belong, or why I didn't belong anywhere. As a child I did not think I was too quiet, but when I became an adult, people said I was so quiet that it concerned them. But my friends as a child never made me feel different or bad about it. I could say random off the wall stuff and it was fine because they'd still be my friend. You learn as you get older that those things aren't okay, but as an autistic person, there is no other script or way you know how to communicate, thus the isolating yourself begins. You don't socialize at the same level as others because you lose interest in doing so because you can't keep up with it. That may be what he means, I could be wrong. Just another perspective to look at.

 

[Fino]

I'm thinking what's meant by the title is: "Is there an association between autism and negative philosophies?" If that's the question, then it'd seem silly to say it does so directly. Indirectly, though, I don't see why not. But then the real question is something more like, "Is there an association between autism and depression?" The cause of the negative philosophy would be the depression, not the autism, but if there's an association between autism and depression then there's an indirect association between autism and negative philosophy.

So yes.

 

[Judge]

I'm thinking what's meant by the title is: "Is there an association between autism and negative philosophies?" If that's the question, then it'd seem silly to say it does so directly. Indirectly, though, I don't see why not. But then the real question is something more like, "Is there an association between autism and depression?" The cause of the negative philosophy would be the depression, not the autism, but if there's an association between autism and depression then there's an indirect association between autism and negative philosophy.

So yes.

Agreed. Though I've heard of such arguments before, worded somewhat differently.

Easier to just drop the term "negative philosophies" and replace it with "prospection". The mental representation of possible futures. Which can involve poor generation, poor evaluation and negative beliefs of said possible futures.

Then consider both prospection and depression to be "intertwined", where it may be debatable where one ends and the other begins, and vice-versa. That pessimistic prospection may ultimately be at the root of depression.

And then of course, to acknowledge that depression is comorbid to autism. That while prevalent, not every person on the spectrum is inherently depressed.

From this perspective such things have been discussed before some years ago.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...m-about-future-possibilities-fuels-depression

 

[risootser]

Regarding my ability to think philosophically as a child. I showed a notebook written by my mother about the topics I talked about. Psychotherapist said that she has never heard so abstract thoughts coming out of child's mouth. I have always loved philosophical topics as long as I can remember also religion and mathematics. The other psychotherapist told me that I can not think in concrete terms even as an adult. I usually loose a connection with people when I try to speak because it sounds so intangible it tends to scare them away and comprehension is totally lacking. I'm an alien.


I have told a psychiatrist that I'd be more happy with a brain damage diagnosis than with anything else.


If I have understood correctly sympathy is taking part into someone's experience by listening and giving feedback of morals and so on. On the other hand whenever or at least in many cases I tend to get emotionally internally reflective when I hear or see hardships or think life in more abstract terms and I think about helping them reflecting through this process and not in terms of "You cry you should stop because it is not good (which is very low empathy and bit better sympathy)"


I have an issue with intimacy because it tends to drain my energy. I like to talk with people in groups. So I actually like to be around people but impersonally.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

I was always speculating but I was unable to talk about it. At one time my talk was airy fairy, but now people remark how concrete it is: as I see in layers I have no problem with moving from the specifics to principles, the more probable principles the better.