Christianity and the voice of god

[Sarah Crane]

Hi all,

I am hoping you can help. My brother has high functioning ASD - he's in his 40s now. We grew up in an atheist household - but he has since found Christianity after a bout of severe depression and a kind of 'break' in his late 20s.

He reads and follows the bible closely - but doesn't attend a church or have any kind of Christian community. He takes the bible as fact.

He's very logical (he's a chemical engineer) and has scrutinised every argument for/against the existence of God.

He also hears the voice of God (not out loud - just in his head).

He has also largely cut our non-Christian family out because of his beliefs.

To an atheist who has no understanding of Christianity / spirituality being cut-out has been incredibly hurtful. There is also a part of me that is concerned that 'hearing God's voice' is somehow beyond ASD and Christianity and points to something else.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences? Has anyone found God later in life rather than being brought up as a Christian? Have you heard the voice of God? Do you take the scripture as a literal text?

I am looking for insight into my brother who I love very much - if there is anyone who can relate I would love to hear your story.

He has a job and is seemingly fine otherwise and I am very supportive of his beliefs - I just don't want him to cut me out because of them!

Thank you so much

Sarah

 

[Alexej]

Welcome Sarah,
There are a lot of good people around here, and I hope that others will jump in and add to my reply.

is your brother new to the faith? I ask because often there is a first flush of enthusiasm when one is really zealous. This phase will often diminish after a while as the everyday living out of one's faith comes in and makes things more normal - by which I mean "everyday". I would encourage him to go to church where he can talk with others and be helped to grow in understanding and practice of faith.

 

[Fact Ten]

I personally think he'd be better off without going to a church as long as he can find engagement with other people and books that would positively challenge his understanding. If he's going for a strict interpretation, he may not fit at any of the mainline denominations as there's been significant ideological drift in the past 2000 years. There would be "nondenominational" types of churches where he might fit in at if at first. In my experiences, such churches are great at welcoming newcomers until you suddenly don't fit. Also, some churches that use the "nondenominational" label can tend to be quite manipulative, especially in the leadership, because they don't answer to any outside authority.

I really hope he mellows out in his pursuit of Christianity and lets you all back in. I also hope he finds a church that will accept him for who he is without any of the social BS, manipulative leadership, or the general hypocrisy.

If you feel like you could get away with it, encourage him towards some of the prominent writings of early Christianity. It will add some nuance.

As for the specific questions about similar experiences: I'm a non-practicing, non-believing Christian. I didn't and don't hear the voice of God. I don't believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible as there's not enough nuance and too much contradiction when you take it that way. If I decide to take my dead husk of a faith out of storage, I'd probably convert to Catholicism.

 

[Wolfnox]

Hi all,

I am hoping you can help. My brother has high functioning ASD - he's in his 40s now. We grew up in an atheist household - but he has since found Christianity after a bout of severe depression and a kind of 'break' in his late 20s.

He reads and follows the bible closely - but doesn't attend a church or have any kind of Christian community. He takes the bible as fact.

He's very logical (he's a chemical engineer) and has scrutinised every argument for/against the existence of God.

He also hears the voice of God (not out loud - just in his head).

He has also largely cut our non-Christian family out because of his beliefs.

To an atheist who has no understanding of Christianity / spirituality being cut-out has been incredibly hurtful. There is also a part of me that is concerned that 'hearing God's voice' is somehow beyond ASD and Christianity and points to something else.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences? Has anyone found God later in life rather than being brought up as a Christian? Have you heard the voice of God? Do you take the scripture as a literal text?

I am looking for insight into my brother who I love very much - if there is anyone who can relate I would love to hear your story.

He has a job and is seemingly fine otherwise and I am very supportive of his beliefs - I just don't want him to cut me out because of them!

Thank you so much

Sarah

Not sure how much help i can be. But a lot of what you said does describe me. Though i had and have God since childhood. Including hearing him in my head. I learned later they were my thoughts though. Not a distinction i make easily. I have aspergers and Schizotypal. If it helps.

 

[tducey]

God is a very interesting subject. I'm of the belief - the firm belief at that - that out there somewhere exists a thing that is bigger than each and everyone of us. Whatever that is controls everything that happens. That's my belief and has been for a long time.

 

[Crossbreed]

@Sarah Crane , I am ASD1, gifted and have been a Christian for 42.5 years. If he is in the USA or UK, I highly recommend the Vineyard Church. They are ASD-friendly and would have no problem that he hears God. Assemblies of God and Foursquare churches are good for that, too. The Biblical ideal is that Christians should be in church [Hebrews 10:25].

 

[Sarah Crane]

Thank you everyone for your kindness in replying.

My brother's conversion isn't new - it happened in his late 20s when he was suicidal (gun in hand, ready to go). He heard the voice of god, telling him not to do it. And had a religious conversion at that moment.

He used to go to a church after this - but as @Fact Ten mentioned - he found the church he was at full of ego and hypocrisy - and felt it was very unChristian. He's tried a number of others but not followed up - I suspect it's because he doesn't like the social aspect and that he's essentially created his own particular belief system and doesn't like it when it doesn't 100% correlate with his idea of Christian faith and how Christian's should act. It's interesting that @Crossbreed points out that the Biblical ideal is for Christians to go to church (which I didn't realise was in the scriptures!) - so it seems my brother is cherry picking his strict adherence to the Bible.

@Wolf Prince - I have wondered if he might have Schizotypal traits as well. Could you share a bit more about your daily experience in life?

My brother was a sweet, young boy - we were very close as children - which is why I find his withdrawal so upsetting. We had a bit of a rocky time at home - nothing too bad - just parents fighting A LOT. In his teen years (which is the first time he heard God he's told me since - then not again for years until his suicide attempt) he became withdrawn. He became obsessed with body building. A few years ago he was convinced God wanted him to become a top formula 500 racing car driver (he's always raced for fun) and he had a couple million £ saved and bought a garage / mechanic shop, gave up his engineering job and pursued it 100% (gym 6 hours a day - he became sinewy and gaunt). It all went bust and he got back in touch with my mom and I as he needed support. He was convinced it was God trying to humble him. He got back on his feet after spending 6 months sleeping on the garage floor before it sold.

This all sounds quite extreme, but if you met him in the street he has no outward sign of appearing / speaking unusually. He's just a typical gym guy. Good sense of humour.

He's got a good job now - he is a brilliant mathematician / engineer. But he's obsessed with gym / eating rituals / and his brand of Christianity. I'm just desperately trying to understand him.

Thank you again - any insight is so appreciated!!

 

[Crossbreed]

Show him these sites,

• Vineyard
• Assembly of God
• Foursquare Church

(Tell him that I sent you. )

Also, tell him that Christian Forums has an autism sub-forum. (I am Sabertooth over there.)

 

[Sarah Crane]

Show him these sites,

• Vineyard
• Assembly of God
• Foursquare Church

(Tell him that I sent you. )

Also, tell him that Christian Forums has an autism sub-forum. (I am Sabertooth over there.)

Thanks @Crossbreed - that's super helpful!!!

 

[Wolfnox]

points out that the Biblical ideal is for Christians to go to church (which I didn't realise was in the scriptures!)

First i dont and have never agreed with that.
It is possible to be faithful and not go to a church. That is a choice i made as well. Because like your brother i didnt trust some of their teachings. Nor did i want my faith tied solely to a building or place. Once or twice a week. It is all the time.
All due respect given to crossbreed. I disagree that the scriptures say anyone must go to church. But i will leave it at that.

Thank you everyone for your kindness in replying.

My brother's conversion isn't new - it happened in his late 20s when he was suicidal (gun in hand, ready to go). He heard the voice of god, telling him not to do it. And had a religious conversion at that moment.

He used to go to a church after this - but as @Fact Ten mentioned - he found the church he was at full of ego and hypocrisy - and felt it was very unChristian. He's tried a number of others but not followed up - I suspect it's because he doesn't like the social aspect and that he's essentially created his own particular belief system and doesn't like it when it doesn't 100% correlate with his idea of Christian faith and how Christian's should act. It's interesting that @Crossbreed points out that the Biblical ideal is for Christians to go to church (which I didn't realise was in the scriptures!) - so it seems my brother is cherry picking his strict adherence to the Bible.

@Wolf Prince - I have wondered if he might have Schizotypal traits as well. Could you share a bit more about your daily experience in life?

My brother was a sweet, young boy - we were very close as children - which is why I find his withdrawal so upsetting. We had a bit of a rocky time at home - nothing too bad - just parents fighting A LOT. In his teen years (which is the first time he heard God he's told me since - then not again for years until his suicide attempt) he became withdrawn. He became obsessed with body building. A few years ago he was convinced God wanted him to become a top formula 500 racing car driver (he's always raced for fun) and he had a couple million £ saved and bought a garage / mechanic shop, gave up his engineering job and pursued it 100% (gym 6 hours a day - he became sinewy and gaunt). It all went bust and he got back in touch with my mom and I as he needed support. He was convinced it was God trying to humble him. He got back on his feet after spending 6 months sleeping on the garage floor before it sold.

This all sounds quite extreme, but if you met him in the street he has no outward sign of appearing / speaking unusually. He's just a typical gym guy. Good sense of humour.

He's got a good job now - he is a brilliant mathematician / engineer. But he's obsessed with gym / eating rituals / and his brand of Christianity. I'm just desperately trying to understand him.

Thank you again - any insight is so appreciated!!

First thing. I will say if he stopped short of suicide because of God speaking to him. I would be careful saying otherwise on that point.

Second due to the first it will be difficult to say any other voice he hears isnt God. He will be defensive about it. In my case it took years to learn the voices were my thoughts. Something i still struggle with. I have heard God before and the two are separate. But that came with a lot of Bible reading and simply living life. If i hear the voices i don't act on them. I ponder their meaning and consider what i heard. Against what i read in the Bible. That includes prayers for council directly to God. To make certain i got the meaning right. Something i have to do due to my disability.

 

[Fact Ten]

@Crossbreed Engagement with other believers can be a helpful thing, but I don't think that it has to be through a church. Of course, it's a matter of interpretation for that specific verse and I respect that we have differing opinions.

 

[oregano]

Well, Jesus said not to pray "on street corners" but in private, in one's room. One really doesn't have to join a church, try out St. Augustine who argued that the Second Coming was when a sinful people turn to Christ and that the true church is in one's heart.

I have my own ideas about Yeshua (Jesus) that really don't fit with any current church, and I find most of American Christianity to be hypocritical, worshipping money and materialism and calling it Christian, despite the fact that Yeshua regularly bashed the arrogant wealthy elites of his time and proclaimed that they could never go to heaven.

As for your brother cutting off all contact with his family, that sounds more cultish than anything, I'm not sure where in the New Testament he got that from, usually that comes with a cult leader who wants to make his followers completely dependent on him.

 

[Alexej]

I would speak up in favour of being in touch with church (irrespective of the label), particularly a small group or cell group (whatever they call it).

There is benefit of getting to know a smaller group of people better than you can before or after the service.

Show him these sites,

• Vineyard
• Assembly of God
• Foursquare Church

I am attending a Vineyard church

 

[Daniel]

I actually hear the voice of what you would call God on a regular basis. (More than that, actually, but it's a whole other thing to explain it all.) I had a profound spiritual awakening about four years ago after a period of healing from addiction and depression and developing an interest in spirituality and self-work.

I spent the last four years trying to figure out what the heck was going on with me, because it was intense, incredibly confusing and often frustrating, and it doesn't exactly come with an instruction manual. I experienced what was basically a schizophrenic episode for while, but I worked my way out of it (more like pushing through to the other side of it). To those who would dismiss hearing voices as mental illness and not something spiritual, I'll tell you this: they're the same thing. It is indeed mental illness, and it is something "spiritual". The beautiful part is that if you get over the mental illness, you grow as a being. You're no longer shackled by your previous emotional wounding. (Basically, finding a sense of faith can heal you somewhat (depends, really). Alcoholics Anonymous started because one of Bill Wilson's alcoholic buddies showed up and told him that he'd found religion and it healed him. So Bill W. started one.)

One thing I can tell you is that it is a perfectly natural thing to have happen, and it doesn't have to be anything to worry about. "Channelling" is a thing that some people can do, and I'm one of them. But it's also the case that for schizophrenics, the voices are trying to help point to trauma that needs to be healed. So it's often a sign of trouble, but part of a good system--it's like your vehicle's "check engine" light.

Because of the nature of what I've experienced, I'm careful about what I try to explain; it often just opens a bigger can of worms, triggering a sequence of increasingly expansive explanations on my part in order to communicate the ideas to my satisfaction. (I'll be writing books on this stuff eventually.) For instance, as for whether it involves something "beyond" Asperger's and Christianity, I would have to say "yes and no". That's because, as I've learned, there's a bigger picture to both Asperger's and Christianity that's beyond what your average person thinks about them (hence, can of worms...).

One thing about the experience (of hearing voices) that's interesting, and I've not read about anyone else who ever talked about channelling or psychic abilities or intuition or that kind of thing acknowledge this part of the experience that I discovered: your pre-existing beliefs and ideas contribute to the experience. So there's a lot of "new age" material/ideas out there that are purported to be "divinely received," and it quite likely is, but because they believed in something in a certain way, the input they received gets "filtered" through that understanding, and it feels like their existing beliefs are being verified, when that's not the case. As a result, there's a lot of new age fiction/falsehood that gets repeated, and a lot of "channelled information" is bogus.

The thing to watch out for is whether or not he's happy with himself, and living a purposeful and satisfying life. I'd really have to know more details to be able to offer any specific insight as to how the familial relations with him could improve.

 

[Lymle]

takes the bible as fact.

Thats because it's meant as fact & not just interpretation.

He's very logical (he's a chemical engineer) and has scrutinised every argument for/against the existence of God.

Our limited capacity of mental logic as a species (chemical engineers included) is no where near sufficient to understand such things with the mind alone. And without the posibility of any direct physical evidence, it means that God may or may not exist...a 50/50 chance either way, as far as our minds are concerned.

In the end this is a matter strictly for the heart to decide....to CHOOSE to believe or to CHOOSE not to...this is how it was meant to be.

This is where free will comes into place.

God could of easily made us into a bunch of robots, but His love for us gave us the ability to choose.

He also hears the voice of God (not out loud - just in his head).

Are you sure your not misinterpreting what he means here?
Because God WILL speak to us. Usually through our hearts and spirit once we have established a relationship with Him by belief & prayer through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Now, if he's actually hearing literal "voices" then you might need to be concerned.
However, God is God & can speak to us however He chooses but usually it's in a more sublime way.

He has also largely cut our non-Christian family out because of his beliefs.

Are you guys projecting any negative criticism onto him regarding his faith? If so then what is he supposed to do?

I would ignore negativity around me as well.

To an atheist who has no understanding of Christianity

Here lies the real issue.

Has anyone found God later in life rather than being brought up as a Christian?

People like to overuse the "Finding God" stuff.

It's like saying that God is somehow lost & needs us to find Him...no, He has always been there knocking on the door of our hearts waiting for us to open it.

Being a true Christian has nothing to do with tradition, churches or weird rituals. Even though church CAN be a great thing to fellowship with other believers & worship together.

It's also not about "religion" because that's something men came up with as a way to categorize all the different systems around the world & to use for control to one degree or another, political or otherwise, but there can only be one truth, & that has nothing to do with the creations of mortal man.

No, it's a deeply personal relationship that grows with belief & faith in Christ & that what He said is true.

Have you heard the voice of God?

Yes, spiritually.
But not a voice like you hear on a phone no.
To personally understand, you need to have a relationship with God through His Son.

and i'm very supportive of his beliefs

Great!
Just make sure to not belittle them in any way...directly or indirectly, especially since you can't understand without belief & faith of your own.

I can tell that you sincerely love this man so I know you guys can work through this!
Just remain patient & open minded.

Good luck ٩(^‿^)۶

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

"Hearing God" is both metaphor and reality and doesn't usually mean "hearing" God. And sometimes it is mostly oneself. It's an expression we used anyway. It's not an issue worth worrying about.

I, like probably most blokes, withdrew in my teens. As well as that, I was crushed by stressful studies. I also came into contact with religion that was on the cultish side. It's equally pointless, pushing him towards any kind of church, or away from churches.

Bible interpretations are so varied and are meant to be varied.

As person with ASC we are trying to make sense of our own space. He has to relate at a comfortable level of closeness for him. It also takes years to extend the areas of focus of our minds.

If you have old interests in common, like visiting galleries, crafts or leisure reading, you could pursue them separately but talk about them together for 5 minutes once in a while.

It sounds like he has a good enough life for the time being and space and time are the most essential things.