Communication difficulties

[Suzette]

Over the years I have learned to have fairly normal conversation with most people but I still find some people/ situations challenging.

Mom mom, and a few others, will ask me questions but in response they assert assumptions about what I have said instead of asking for clarification or more information. For example;

This morning I told my mother I was going to go with my husband to pickup another car so I could drive our car back. My mom asked if she could go and I told her yes but with the understanding that I don't care to talk too much when I am driving. I explained that my son talks nonstop in the car and that is too much. Some conversation is o.k.

Her response was "Oh I get it. When you don't drive much it can all be overwhelming".

I got very frustrated with this because she assumed I would feel overwhelmed. But the truth is I just prefer not to talk constantly! And she does this often, even before I told her that I think I am on the spectrum, her assumptions are always diminishing of my abilities and chacter.

Another example: I sailed 1,200 miles down the pacific coast with 3 strangers, crossed Mexico alone on public transportation, without speaking any Spanish. When she came to visit we took her out sailing but I wanted to go back to port because the weather was rough. She said "I wish you could get some sailing lessons to build your confidence." !!!

I know other people who do this too. Like my mother, they make assumptions about me and make statements that put me in a defensive position.

I have a friend whom I told I do not drink much because I know alcoholisim runs in my family. She told our other friends that "Suzette has a problem with alcohol". Which, out of context, makes it sound like I am an alcoholic. I am not.

How do I deal with these dememeaning and character diminishing comments? I am always upset by these comments and I can stay upset all day. At least internally. Now, not only are they making false assumptions but they get a view of me that is uncomposed and frustrated. I don't get angry because I give them the benefit of doubt that they upset me on purpose.

What can I do about this? By the way, I don't think these are the social foibles of someone on the spectrum. I am not sure it is deliberate behavior but not n.d. behavior.

 

[Raggamuffin]

I guess you can try to nip it in the bud then and there after it's said. Depends how good you are at confrontation. Also, I find when people make untrue assumptions about me, my response in defending myself is with a "tone" that then supposedly deserves comment. "There's no need to get angry" etc. I wonder if people realise what they're doing has a negative effect on those they're talking about.

Maybe it's just something that needs practice. Asserting yourself etc. rather than internalising it and sitting on that confusion and resentment for prolonged periods whilst you work through scenarios on what you wish you had said or done.

I don't know - I rarely stand up for myself. I usually suffer in silence until I buckle. Not given to asking people for help.

Ed

 

[Suzette]

Maybe it's just something that needs practice. Asserting yourself etc. rather than internalising it and sitting on that confusion and resentment for prolonged periods whilst you work through scenarios on what you wish you had said or done

This made me laugh! That is exactly what I am doing!

Thank you for your comments. I will think on this. I know I don't know how to assert myself in a confident way.

 

[Aneka]

Over the years I have learned to have fairly normal conversation with most people but I still find some people/ situations challenging.

That's probably the downside to it, people
Mom mom, and a few others, will ask me questions but in response they assert assumptions about what I have said instead of asking for clarification or more information. For example;

This morning I told my mother I was going to go with my husband to pickup another car so I could drive our car back. My mom asked if she could go and I told her yes but with the understanding that I don't care to talk too much when I am driving. I explained that my son talks nonstop in the car and that is too much. Some conversation is o.k.

Her response was "Oh I get it. When you don't drive much it can all be overwhelming".

I got very frustrated with this because she assumed I would feel overwhelmed. But the truth is I just prefer not to talk constantly! And she does this often, even before I told her that I think I am on the spectrum, her assumptions are always diminishing of my abilities and chacter.

Another example: I sailed 1,200 miles down the pacific coast with 3 strangers, crossed Mexico alone on public transportation, without speaking any Spanish. When she came to visit we took her out sailing but I wanted to go back to port because the weather was rough. She said "I wish you could get some sailing lessons to build your confidence." !!!

I know other people who do this too. Like my mother, they make assumptions about me and make statements that put me in a defensive position.

I have a friend whom I told I do not drink much because I know alcoholisim runs in my family. She told our other friends that "Suzette has a problem with alcohol". Which, out of context, makes it sound like I am an alcoholic. I am not.

How do I deal with these dememeaning and character diminishing comments? I am always upset by these comments and I can stay upset all day. At least internally. Now, not only are they making false assumptions but they get a view of me that is uncomposed and frustrated. I don't get angry because I give them the benefit of doubt that they upset me on purpose.

What can I do about this? By the way, I don't think these are the social foibles of someone on the spectrum. I am not sure it is deliberate behavior but not n.d. behavior.

I assume your autism spectrum disorder is known to relatives and acquaintances? People will develop a protective stance, all the while treating you like you can not speak up for yourself.
But even if you're not formally diagnosed and people don't know you will get marked as the 'defective specimen'.

 

[Suzette]

I assume your autism spectrum disorder is known to relatives and acquaintances? People will develop a protective stance, all the while treating you like you can not speak up for yourself.
But even if you're not formally diagnosed and people don't know you will get marked as the 'defective specimen'.

Actually, my friends do not know and I only found out myself this year. So my mother is new to the info too but has made these sorts of comments my whole life.
"Deffective specimen" is what bothers me.

There has got to be some specific response I can give. I can practice that!

 

[Matthias]

Over the years I have learned to have fairly normal conversation with most people but I still find some people/ situations challenging.

Mom mom, and a few others, will ask me questions but in response they assert assumptions about what I have said instead of asking for clarification or more information. For example;

This morning I told my mother I was going to go with my husband to pickup another car so I could drive our car back. My mom asked if she could go and I told her yes but with the understanding that I don't care to talk too much when I am driving. I explained that my son talks nonstop in the car and that is too much. Some conversation is o.k.

Her response was "Oh I get it. When you don't drive much it can all be overwhelming".

I got very frustrated with this because she assumed I would feel overwhelmed. But the truth is I just prefer not to talk constantly! And she does this often, even before I told her that I think I am on the spectrum, her assumptions are always diminishing of my abilities and chacter.

Another example: I sailed 1,200 miles down the pacific coast with 3 strangers, crossed Mexico alone on public transportation, without speaking any Spanish. When she came to visit we took her out sailing but I wanted to go back to port because the weather was rough. She said "I wish you could get some sailing lessons to build your confidence." !!!

I know other people who do this too. Like my mother, they make assumptions about me and make statements that put me in a defensive position.

I have a friend whom I told I do not drink much because I know alcoholisim runs in my family. She told our other friends that "Suzette has a problem with alcohol". Which, out of context, makes it sound like I am an alcoholic. I am not.

How do I deal with these dememeaning and character diminishing comments? I am always upset by these comments and I can stay upset all day. At least internally. Now, not only are they making false assumptions but they get a view of me that is uncomposed and frustrated. I don't get angry because I give them the benefit of doubt that they upset me on purpose.

What can I do about this? By the way, I don't think these are the social foibles of someone on the spectrum. I am not sure it is deliberate behavior but not n.d. behavior.

I used to get upset about the kind of stuff you described but I've since realized I was misinterpreting their comments and misunderstanding their motives. Looking at your 3 examples, I don't think anyone intended to demean you or attack your character. People aren't perfect so misunderstandings and misinterpretations occur frequently. Most people are aware of this and know that most people aren't trying to be mean so they'll just clarify what they meant when it happens instead of getting upset. I actually avoid some people with autistic traits in real life because it's impossible to have a normal conversation without making assumptions or comments that might not be true since I can't read people's minds so that I always interpret everything they say perfectly.

The reason I used to get upset was because I had a low self-esteem and my interpretation of other people's comments reminded my brain of my own beliefs about myself which triggered emotions that resulted in me feeling upset. After I realized my own beliefs caused my emotions and started seeing myself as just as good and equal to everyone else, I started getting less upset when people said something negative and now I almost never get upset even when I think people are being mean and attacking me.

I'll use your first example to explain how I would interpret what happened.

This morning I told my mother I was going to go with my husband to pickup another car so I could drive our car back. My mom asked if she could go and I told her yes but with the understanding that I don't care to talk too much when I am driving. I explained that my son talks nonstop in the car and that is too much. Some conversation is o.k.

Her response was "Oh I get it. When you don't drive much it can all be overwhelming".

I wound interpret her response as an example of empathy. She rephrased what you said to let you know she was listening and to make sure she understood you correctly. I feel better when someone listens and understands me. If they misunderstood me, I just explain what I meant to correct any misunderstandings.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Over the years I have learned to have fairly normal conversation with most people but I still find some people/ situations challenging.

Mom mom, and a few others, will ask me questions but in response they assert assumptions about what I have said instead of asking for clarification or more information. For example;

This morning I told my mother I was going to go with my husband to pickup another car so I could drive our car back. My mom asked if she could go and I told her yes but with the understanding that I don't care to talk too much when I am driving. I explained that my son talks nonstop in the car and that is too much. Some conversation is o.k.

Her response was "Oh I get it. When you don't drive much it can all be overwhelming".

I got very frustrated with this because she assumed I would feel overwhelmed. But the truth is I just prefer not to talk constantly! And she does this often, even before I told her that I think I am on the spectrum, her assumptions are always diminishing of my abilities and chacter.

Another example: I sailed 1,200 miles down the pacific coast with 3 strangers, crossed Mexico alone on public transportation, without speaking any Spanish. When she came to visit we took her out sailing but I wanted to go back to port because the weather was rough. She said "I wish you could get some sailing lessons to build your confidence." !!!

I know other people who do this too. Like my mother, they make assumptions about me and make statements that put me in a defensive position.

I have a friend whom I told I do not drink much because I know alcoholisim runs in my family. She told our other friends that "Suzette has a problem with alcohol". Which, out of context, makes it sound like I am an alcoholic. I am not.

How do I deal with these dememeaning and character diminishing comments? I am always upset by these comments and I can stay upset all day. At least internally. Now, not only are they making false assumptions but they get a view of me that is uncomposed and frustrated. I don't get angry because I give them the benefit of doubt that they upset me on purpose.

What can I do about this? By the way, I don't think these are the social foibles of someone on the spectrum. I am not sure it is deliberate behavior but not n.d. behavior.

This is a form of controlling behavior,...and due to their underlying fears and anxieties,...not yours. They have to make these little diminishing comments to make themselves appear greater than you. It's a form of mental abuse,..."death by a thousand cuts",...little, seemingly "innocent" comments, slipped into the conversation. Perhaps you're the butt of a joke in front of others,...you laugh, they laugh,...but deep down, it's not so funny. They say the lie enough times, it becomes a truth in their brain,...and eventually yours, destroying your self-esteem and confidence.

The sad part of it is,...it's usually a spouse or parent who's guilty of this behavior,...people you should be able to love and trust. It makes it particularly "stinging".

Once you recognize it for what it is,...it should make you a bit angry and want to fight against it. BE STRONG.

The people closest to you should be your biggest advocate and confidence boosters,...and vice-versa. Everyone has self-esteem and confidence issues at one time or another,...you should be able to depend upon each other to lift each other up,...not subtly tear each other down.

 

[Thinx]

You seem to know it's about how they are, how they see things, which is good. But we can't change everyone else they won't change unless they want to, I guess. However, given you know it's how your mom is, or how a frIend is, that makes them see things that way, you do have the the option and the power to choose not to get upset.

Your mum isn't empathic or good at understanding who you are. That's just how she is, and you know who you are, so, how does her being muddled about what you mean upset you? Especially for like, all day! Take your power back. Your mum's a lovable buffoon who can make you smile with her familiar inability to understand you.

Probably you can see some of how she became the way she is, in her life history. Probably she'll never get you. Youre in your 50s, so she has had plenty of time if she was going to evolve or change. But you don't need her to make things ok anymore, you can do it for yourself. And you can and have found others who do get you.

 

[Ken]

How do I deal with these dememeaning and character diminishing comments?

I don't know. But, if you ever find out, please let me know!!

From my experience, I think this is human nature. It is what reality TV shows are made of. Most sitcom TV shows are also fueled by the same assumption based misperceptions and sold as entertainment. It is rampant in my family and I suspect in most, if not all families.

I'm afraid, just like me, you are suffering from human nature.

 

[Kalinychta]

Oh man, that would irritate me, too. Do you happen to know why she does it? Is she being deliberately passive-aggressive, or does she really think you’re delicate and incompetent?

 

[Suzette]

Thank you for all of these responses.

I should clarify, I get upset but I keep it to myself.

@Neonatal RRT, I think your reeponse comes closest to my experiences with my family. I went grey rock with them When I was about 20 and it has only been in the last few years that we have made progress towards being closer emotionally.

"Deliberate" means to be intentionally provoking. Honestly, I don't think my mogher is that self aware. As some have pointed out, there is usually an equally damaged childhood behind people who do damage. I think she thinks she is "nurturing" but her expression is unconsciously passive agressive. She does not ask you simply "what do you think" and wait for an answer, she will say "I think xxx, don't you agree?". I will not attempt a diagnosisof behavior but I do not think she is simply "normal" either.

I like the reminders to hold firm without agression. Agression isn't my style anyway, but I can be a little too easily pushed around. So, the question remainds, how do I hold onto my confidence when someone is being pushy and provoking with me? I consider this my last known emotional frontier. I have worked so hard to overcome so much more than this but I can't seem to find the key.

Responses I can practice are very good. @Hypnalis, you gave me some good suggestions but I will have to think them through. You suggestions need to be said from a place of confidence. Clearly, if these things still upset me, I am not really there yet! But just thinking about them may be very helpful to getting me closer!

Thank you everyone!

 

[Au Naturel]

As Elsa said, "Let it go!"

Don't let their head trip affect you. If they are being passive aggressive, or subtly deprecating you, then letting it get to you is giving them power. They win.

If they don't mean anything by it, then letting it bother you is creating a problem where none existed. Yawn, or sigh and roll your eyes, if you really need to respond.

 

[Thinx]

From earliest age we literally learn how to be a person from our parents and carers. If they can't do something, or they learned it in a flawed way, that's mostly what we too will be given. They can't enable where they weren't enabled. Later on, we have opportunities to learn differently where what we got was problematic, but it can take us many years to emerge from the mistake of family ways and confusions. We think on some level it's reality, rather than our particular family's dysfunction. It was our reality.

One of the reasons therapy can be useful is that it can offer a suitable environment for change, as can a loving relationship and some other kinds of relationships we have over time. Where we have the opportunity to develop onwards from the oddities of our family dynamics.

Your mum isn't 'confident'. She has strategies to mask and get by that make you and probably others feel uncomfortable. She couldn't enable 'confidence' in you. Nor did anyone else in your family. I put it in quotes because I think this issue thats been so powerful sounds like it's more than lack of confidence, at the earliest level it may be an uncertainty about if I even am a person, if I am allowed to exist.

Maybe read up on/research reparenting yourself. Ultimately that's what we end up getting for ourselves somehow if we manage to move on developmentally from early lacks. But where it's very early and fundamental, it can be quite hard to see how we can possibly enable ourselves in an area we lack. It's a void. But maybe talk with that tiny little spark you were back then, and tell her your family was a bit wonky, but you are there for her now...

 

[SDRSpark]

I guess you can try to nip it in the bud then and there after it's said. Depends how good you are at confrontation. Also, I find when people make untrue assumptions about me, my response in defending myself is with a "tone" that then supposedly deserves comment. "There's no need to get angry" etc. I wonder if people realise what they're doing has a negative effect on those they're talking about.

Maybe it's just something that needs practice. Asserting yourself etc. rather than internalising it and sitting on that confusion and resentment for prolonged periods whilst you work through scenarios on what you wish you had said or done.

I don't know - I rarely stand up for myself. I usually suffer in silence until I buckle. Not given to asking people for help.

Ed

This is true (and it's also something I really struggle with - I'm still angry about miscommunications that happened over a year ago where I didn't react appropriately and call it out when it happened).

 

[Au Naturel]

Being angry over the past is about as futile as anger gets. At least if you are angry over the present, there's a chance you might be able to change what was wrong. (Or you might be angry over something far beyond your control in which case you should just let it go.) But anger destroys your ability to calculate and strategize. Unless the other person immediately submits to you out of fear, it makes fixing problems more difficult.

Anger is a physiologic response born in the reptile portion of our brain, the amygdala. An external stimulus becomes associated with the fight or flight reaction. In the case of anger, it is the fight response that is activated. If you show the anger right away, it can tell the other person that they shouldn't have done whatever angered you. If the other person doesn't care about your anger, you accomplish nothing with it.

Anger exists to intimidate another person into changing their behavior, either out of fear of punishment or as the result of punishment. (Fear is the same neurochemistry, same amygdala, only selecting the flight response instead.) A little bit of anger can spur you to unpleasant but necessary action. A little bit more and you become intolerable to everyone, not just the immediate cause of your upset.

People hang onto their anger as though it was a part of them. They say they can't let it go but in reality they don't want to let it go. In their head they are busy dealing out punishment. (A backhanded kind of "reward" for the angry person.) Somehow they feel "letting it go" lets the other guy off the hook..In reality the other guy has been "let off the hook" by time and fate. It is beyond your power to do anything about it. C'est la vie.

I think of all the dysfunctional family gatherings where middle aged and elderly people rehash all the wrongs of a childhood that can never be changed. None of it matters anymore but they just won't let it go.They make everyone around them miserable while they work on raising their own blood pressure and churning out gastric acid. The futility of it all is evident at the next get together when the same old conflicts flare up again.

Think about the Litany Against Fear from Dune. Replace the word fear with anger. The principle is exactly the same.

You don't need to forgive the other guy. You just have to accept that it just doesn't matter. Living the best you can right here and now is the best revenge. Not letting them control you is the best punishment.

 

[Au Naturel]

@Suzette

I've always thought "confidence" is misused in the context of giving people advice on inter-personal relationships. You need confidence to help control other peoples' attitudes and behaviors, but you can only gain confidence by successfully controlling other peoples' attitudes and behaviors - Catch-22

I can give you some guidance on dealing with your Mom though.

First set your objective. If it's using an approach something like the one I described above, it has to be done immediately after the comment you don't like / can't accept, and you must be reasonably calm to apply the technique. And just to be overly clear: for now, you won't be able to do it while you're angry.

Like "be confident and everything will be easy" this may seem a bit self-contradictory at the moment, but there's a way forward

It's hard to control anger when it has already kicked in. I view it as a body-effect based on what I call an "adrenaline rush" (which may not be medically correct, but it works for this discussion Either way, you just have to wait for it to wear off.

What you can definitely do (though it will take a little practice), is control what you allow to make you angry. Anything that's verbally triggered is a side effect of how you interpret the words, and you can prepare for that.

The next step: think about exactly what it is that causes your anger reaction when your Mom does things like those two examples (which are different - this is two distinct exercises).
Look for the negatives of things like trust, confidence in you and/or your abilities, respect, etc.
Also consider your side - for example did you have any personal objectives with the sailing outing that you felt were not achieved?

I'll stop here for now, because I need to know you're interested (you don't have to be, but if nobody's reading I won't keep writing You don't need to persuade me - just "please continue" or something like that.

The best way to neutralize "anger triggers" is practicing for them with guided meditation. Or you could consider it role playing. Or even method acting. You can do this with a therapist but you can also do it on your own. It is a primary technique in Stoic philosophy.

Get into a relaxed place. Imagine the thing happening that triggers your anger. How did you respond in the past?

Now imagine not responding. Imagine not being angry. Imagine not caring. Imagine laughing at the ridiculousness. Imagine that the person who brings out the anger in you is merely demonstrating their own inability to cope with life. You have surpassed them by deciding to be the better person and not rise to the bait. Imagine walking away instead of playing their game.

Do that, over and over, and it will rewrite the script of what happens when dear Mom (or whoever) either deliberately or accidentally pushes your buttons. And you can practice avoiding pressing theirs and alternate strategies in case it accidentally happens. This technique also works for fear.

 

[Suzette]

The best way to neutralize "anger triggers" is practicing for them with guided meditation. Or you could consider it role playing. Or even method acting. You can do this with a therapist but you can also do it on your own. It is a primary technique in Stoic philosophy.

Get into a relaxed place. Imagine the thing happening that triggers your anger. How did you respond in the past?

Now imagine not responding. Imagine not being angry. Imagine not caring. Imagine laughing at the ridiculousness. Imagine that the person who brings out the anger in you is merely demonstrating their own inability to cope with life. You have surpassed them by deciding to be the better person and not rise to the bait. Imagine walking away instead of playing their game.

Do that, over and over, and it will rewrite the script of what happens when dear Mom (or whoever) either deliberately or accidentally pushes your buttons. And you can practice avoiding pressing theirs and alternate strategies in case it accidentally happens. This technique also works for fear.

This is helpful. Thank you!
I have worked through so much with this relationship but this one thing does trigger holdover reactions from childhood.

I certainly know, and accept that she will never be different. No. Let me re-phrase. She can and does show personal character growth. But she may never match what I desire her to be.

I had an interesting encounter with her today. My husband had promised to help her do some work but had not started it. I offered to remind my husband of his offer. She told me no, do not talk to him about it. Then gave me a list of things she why she was stressed about the work not being started. It was a manipulation and un-nessisary so I said "Well, I am happy to help but you can't have it both ways. I can not simultaneously say something and not say something. What do you want me to do?". I was firm but calm and did not raise my voice.

 

[Suzette]

Well done! You've learned what would have been the third part of my "lesson" without me, and you've applied it successfully

With respect, your approach has been, or seems to be, that I am somewhat new to the personal growth quest. You simply have no idea what I have been accomplishing, without you, for my 54 years of living.

I think you'd benefit from having a generic "reply template" that you can use to respond to this kind of situation. It has to be generic, because the details of each encounter will vary a lot. But it will help if you have some structure and some phrases ready.

My original post was about looking for this "generic template". I still didn't get a good answer there. Any you haven't suggested any either. It is a strategy I have used often in my life but, as you know, it isn't always easy to figure out what that template is.

My apologies if I was not clear about my intentions in my original post.

 

[Ken]

There is a movie all about anger management; "A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood" It is about Lloyd Vogel's education in anger management by Fred Rogers.

Being about Fred Rogers, you might think it is a children's movie. It is not. It is about life lessons.

I bought the DVD and watch it periodically for therapy. Works for me.