Do you have a "formula" for people?

[rollerskate]

It's like this... I have this idea of what to expect from people and how they act, like if I do x I can expect that person to do y. It's of course way more complicated than that, with factors like knowing that person's personality and life experiences and how those factor in variables to their possible responses, but overall the formulas tend to be quite accurate and I feel comfortable knowing I can make sense out of my interactions this way and have a good idea of what kind of reactions to expect to different behaviors on my part.

Then there are the people that defy all of it. Rare but it happens and when it does I come very close to pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to interact with them. I keep falling back on the old formula because I don't know what else to do, and often end up losing that person just because I can't adapt to them or even begin to get them to understand I can't just switch gears for them on a dime and need time, patience, and their guidance on how to change my approach to them. And then I'm left feeling like a failure and jerk because I just can't manage to learn fast enough. :'( Not to mention how absolutely bonkers it drives me that now my world has been turned upside down and all the "rules" are being broken, as if I discovered a place on earth with no gravity and now have to question the entire thesis about it.

Can anyone relate to all of this? Do any of you have coping skills you can share in regards to it that have worked for you?

 

[Vanilla]

I get this, definitely. I talked about it once in another thread; I related the phenomena to "creating templates". I feel I've accumulated a life time supply of these, and each time I meet someone new, it means rifling through them to refer to the behavioural charts, and sometimes updating some out-of-date templates too. Creating a new template is always challenging, and requires much trial and error. I feel the more I learn, the more I realise I have much to learn about people.

I have learned to accept that I can't know everyone right away; especially since most people don't get me at first (or at all). People make mistakes in judgement all the time; even NTs. I try as much as I feel is appropriate, and if it wasn't meant to be, I move on to the next person and try again. I've learned not to dwell, which is an important lesson.

 

[Judge]

I was just lying in bed this morning thinking about this, although more relative to dating in particular. Yet I realized in seeing this thread that my "formula" probably is relevant for most any social interaction whatever one labels them. My "formula"? If I'm interested in you as a person I'll reach out to you in some way. At this point in the process for myself, there's little consideration as to "why". I just go on my own instinct, without any specific agenda in mind. Over a period of time, if I really "connect" with another person then it will begin to dawn upon me what my agenda might be.

In the case of the same sex, it's just a matter of either being friends and/or that the person has something interesting to offer and that I have something to share with them. In the case of the opposite sex, it's almost always a case of simply wanting to be good friends first and foremost. If that friendship flourishes, then perhaps I may truly contemplate being something more to them.

The point is that I cannot be spontaneous when it comes to nurturing friendships. I have to have a plan. It's allowed me to step back and realize how difficult this is, because most people seem to "click" on the fly...instead of building up friendships. And yet looking back on my life, for me this isn't so much a "formula", but rather it's the only way I know of connecting to other people. That I'm hard-wired for this, even though it doesn't seem to fit into the scheme of things in a largely Neurotypical world.

I realized that in my entire life I've had only one actual "date". A blind one, set up by a casual friend at work. It was a disaster before it even happened. I had no real "plan" for this, for what amounted to a social ritual. Something that I just can't seem to handle well at all. I don't "date". I underwrite people to a point where I either like them, or not. If they become a friend there might be more on the horizon. Of course I also realize how limiting this is, and why I have virtually no one in my orbit at the moment. Yeah...I have a "formula", but I'm forced to admit it doesn't work very well moving at such a slow pace. I just don't know any other way in connecting to people whether it's as a friend or something else in a way that keeps the potential hurt and rejection to a minimum. It makes me very sad, short of rarely meeting others with a similar "formula" who approached me first.

If this isn't indicative of being autistic, I don't know what would be. It's frustrating to be so deficient in socialization on certain levels. Yet had I been even more autistic than I am, this might not even be an issue for me. That at some point I simply wouldn't care.

 

[Vanilla]

I was just lying in bed this morning thinking about this, although more relative to dating in particular. Yet I realized in seeing this thread that my "formula" probably is relevant for most any social interaction whatever one labels them. My "formula"? If I'm interested in you as a person I'll reach out to you in some way. At this point in the process for myself, there's little consideration as to "why". I just go on my own instinct, without any specific agenda in mind. Over a period of time, if I really "connect" with another person then it will begin to dawn upon me what my agenda might be.

In the case of the same sex, it's just a matter of either being friends and/or that the person has something interesting to offer and that I have something to share with them. In the case of the opposite sex, it's almost always a case of simply wanting to be good friends first and foremost. If that friendship flourishes, then perhaps I may truly contemplate being something more to them.

The point is that I cannot be spontaneous when it comes to nurturing friendships. I have to have a plan. It's allowed me to step back and realize how difficult this is, because most people seem to "click" on the fly...instead of building up friendships. And yet looking back on my life, for me this isn't so much a "formula", but rather it's the only way I know of connecting to other people. That I'm hard-wired for this, even though it doesn't seem to fit into the scheme of things in a largely Neurotypical world.

I realized that in my entire life I've had only one actual "date". A blind one, set up by a casual friend at work. It was a disaster before it even happened. I had no real "plan" for this, for what amounted to a social ritual. Something that I just can't seem to handle well at all. I don't "date". I underwrite people to a point where I either like them, or not. If they become a friend there might be more on the horizon. Of course I also realize how limiting this is, and why I have virtually no one in my orbit at the moment. Yeah...I have a "formula", but I'm forced to admit it doesn't work very well moving at such a slow pace. I just don't know any other way in connecting to people whether it's as a friend or something else in a way that keeps the potential hurt and rejection to a minimum. It makes me very sad, short of rarely meeting others with a similar "formula" who approached me first.

If this isn't indicative of being autistic, I don't know what would be. It's frustrating to be so deficient in socialization on certain levels. Yet had I been even more autistic than I am, this might not even be an issue for me. That at some point I simply wouldn't care.

Ha, don't even get me started on a formula for dating; that's a whole other ball park, which is full of many minefields (for me anyway).

As much as I'd like to be in a relationship, I feel the early stages of dating (establishing the relationship, before you know anything about one another), is just so complex, and houses so many factors, that I've taken some leave on that subject for the time being (going to university is much less complicated ).

It's hard to make judgements in romantic relationships, as people tend to enter in to them with the mind set of a job interview. They aren't necessarily showing you their true selves upfront; a lot of it is for show, to insure they get the position. Once they've settled in, that's when you learn what you're really working with; which means constantly having to re-structure your formula.

 

[Flinty]

I have formulas for my co-workers. One is for documents from schools, one is for escalating difficult cases, one is for technical stuff, and one is for if I need a phone call made.

And they use me to read French for them, so it's give-and-take.

 

[paloftoon]

rollerskate, I can absolutely relate too. I know that after many decades, I've grown very socially mature and more confident, but despite this I always still want to express my emotions sometimes and I also tend to be turned off to do more things. Not that I can't do them, but if I have choices, I'm NOT going to cater for the group if I'm not tight with them.

It took me so long to realize this because my parents would blame me for a lot of the social things happening to me and that I needed to look at myself. It seems maybe this was somewhat true at the beginning, but much less so as I got older. Keep in mind that not everyone matures, not everyone cares about following rules or etiquette when it comes to themselves. They may expect it from others hence making them intentional or unintentional hypocrites. It's not always you. In fact, if you're thinking that deeply and have been focused on how you can be better to other people, chances are it's not you. It's probably that or those other people. It's more about dealing with the situation.

We can't always predict how people are going to react. Sometimes, some people will purposely surprise us simply because they don't care and just love to see the reaction play out like on a reality show. If you don't have to deal with these people, try to make light conversation if any, make them initiate, and focus on only things you like around those people.

Sometimes, it's good to walk away from the situation or group. Sometimes, it's better not to let one person push you away from a situation or group. Knowing what to do when is hard, and you can best decide that ultimately.

Easier said than done right? Too much to think about.
I hope this helps.

 

[rollerskate]

Ha, don't even get me started on a formula for dating; that's a whole other ball park, which is full of many minefields (for me anyway).

As much as I'd like to be in a relationship, I feel the early stages of dating (establishing the relationship, before you know anything about one another), is just so complex, and houses so many factors, that I've taken some leave on that subject for the time being (going to university is much less complicated ).

It's hard to make judgements in romantic relationships, as people tend to enter in to them with the mind set of a job interview. They aren't necessarily showing you their true selves upfront; a lot of it is for show, to insure they get the position. Once they've settled in, that's when you learn what you're really working with; which means constantly having to re-structure your formula.

That's part of my problem actually. What you see is what you get with me. I don't do the whole pony show and I don't like it when others do it. Makes me feel like I just got played. And others expect me to be at an extreme myself and are disappointed to discover nope, I really AM that way normally (intense, driven, etc) and they can't handle it.

 

[Judge]

That's part of my problem actually. What you see is what you get with me. I don't do the whole pony show and I don't like it when others do it. Makes me feel like I just got played. And others expect me to be at an extreme myself and are disappointed to discover nope, I really AM that way normally (intense, driven, etc) and they can't handle it.

What she said. Why degrade a potential friendship or something more intense by introducing a deceptive social ritual into the equation?

You are what you are. Pretending otherwise is just a recipe for disaster. Yet society wraps it all into a nicely wrapped bomb known as "dating".

 

[rollerskate]

This is the deal. The ex actually started talking to me again. Told me that first of all he stopped talking in the first place because I'm "addictive" and he was too obsessed (to which I thought I feel the same about you but I'm a big girl and exercise self control - of course I didn't say that) and the complaint that inspired this post was that he kept avoiding me and has in the past because I "attacked" him after he started avoiding me. I know he's non confrontational, bit there's issues here. First of all, I'm blunt about my thoughts and feelings. Not to the point of personal attacks but in a very Aspie "these are the facts about what's going on inside me" fashion that is my attempt to resolve things because it gives the person a chance to correct me on what I'm thinking is going on and shows them how I personally tick. Second, towards the end when he still wasn't responding, I DID attack him a few times, mainly because I've learned if a person won't talk normally a lot of times you can get them mad enough at you to start blurting out the truth.

I can't really do anything about being blunt like that. I know I could change my direction to not trying to smoke him out of his hole so to speak when he goes into hiding but that will take a lot of time and I must say proof that I can trust he'll come back, which has not happened so far. Every time he's done this it's not for a few days or a couple of weeks even but MONTHS. Last time the only way I got him to talk to me again was to start attacking him until he played the poor me you're hurting me please stop card. This time nothing worked and I'm honestly shocked he talked to me again because I had given up completely.

I don't know but I'm so done with him even if I never get over him in my lifetime and date anyone again. I love him but obviously no matter what he says the feeling is either not mutual or he is way too screwed up in the way he handles relationships to be even remotely worked with. Or maybe it's me because I require heavy amounts of communication and everyone else I know of that's in his life or has been like exes doesn't communicate with him except when they want something and otherwise just ignores him if he pulls the disappearing act. Either way I can't figure him out quickly enough to save the sinking ship and I know if I don't I'm just going to keep hurting him and him me, so screw it.

 

[Judge]

I don't know but I'm so done with him even if I never get over him in my lifetime and date anyone again. I love him but obviously no matter what he says the feeling is either not mutual or he is way too screwed up in the way he handles relationships to be even remotely worked with. Or maybe it's me because I require heavy amounts of communication and everyone else I know of that's in his life or has been like exes doesn't communicate with him except when they want something and otherwise just ignores him if he pulls the disappearing act. Either way I can't figure him out quickly enough to save the sinking ship and I know if I don't I'm just going to keep hurting him and him me, so screw it.

Sounds like you have recognized you were previously in a toxic, codependent relationship. And that he has yet to do so. Hopefully somehow he will eventually figure it out and move on.

 

[rollerskate]

Sounds like you have recognized you were previously in a toxic, codependent relationship. And that he has yet to do so. Hopefully somehow he will eventually figure it out and move on.

Realized but not actualized and that's the toughest part of this all. I had finally just accepted I was never going to hear from him again and even though the reason why was unknown and still driving me nuts, even though I still felt in love with him and the only interest I had in dating was replicating him (part of why I was determined to just avoid it altogether indefinitely if need be), I was at least moving on enough to actually feel some day to day normal happiness and not obsess over it every minute any more. Now he's made contact again and once again he's driving me batsh*t insane analyzing everything and wondering why he talked to me via text for several hours saying he missed chatting with me then stopped unexpectedly and hasn't messaged me again for the past two days, fighting the urge to text him for anything because I'm tired of initiating all the time, generally grouchy because it seemed things were going somewhere at first but once again he slithered off with no apologies and no answers, just more questions from telling me indirectly that basically everything was my fault again, and MY ASPIE BRAIN CANNOT HANDLE ALL THESE INCONGRUENT PUZZLE PIECES. That's the main thing. I can't handle this many questions and contradictions at all. I wish he never talked to me again. I can handle a broken heart for a lifetime if need be but I so seriously cannot handle THIS crud even for a few months without it seriously affecting my happiness, my behavior, and ultimately my quality of life because it completely robs my focus from everything else. Is it me, is it him, if it is him why can't I figure him out, if it is me why can't I figure out what I'm doing wrong outside of just being human, etc... It's like me trying to figure out an NT that's a total stranger to me and has mysteriously gotten mad at me for an unknown reason x10. And I just want to hyper focus on it until I figure it out, like a super computer trying to figure out pi. I know it's likely impossible and worthless and not worth my time, but now it's the priority task locked into my system processes once again that can't be killed and I can't find the darn power button to reboot the whole system.

Sorry for ranting about my OT personal life on generalized thread I started. I just need the stress relief. I'm past my due date on this baby and I'm so sore and achy and cranky this added to it is a little too much.

 

[Judge]

Now he's made contact again and once again he's driving me batsh*t insane analyzing everything and wondering why he talked to me via text for several hours saying he missed chatting with me then stopped unexpectedly and hasn't messaged me again for the past two days, fighting the urge to text him for anything because I'm tired of initiating all the time, generally grouchy because it seemed things were going somewhere at first but once again he slithered off with no apologies and no answers, just more questions from telling me indirectly that basically everything was my fault again, and MY ASPIE BRAIN CANNOT HANDLE ALL THESE INCONGRUENT PUZZLE PIECES.

That's the "toxic" aspect of which I speak.

I'd think a non-toxic relationship would be someone committed to dealing with their Aspie partner the best they can on a perpetual basis. You can't do that switching it on and off like a light switch. We require routine and consistency. Not emotional chaos.

 

[Tarragon]

 

[paloftoon]

rollerskate, if this person gave you anything undesirably permanent and has no remorse for his actions, there is no 2 way communication no matter how much you try to communicate with him. Instead of communicating with him, it sounds like you need to just ask for complete openness or put up a wall at this point. Try to look elsewhere and/or for friendships and other interests. Don't put all your eggs into this undeserving man. I sense he is communicating with you randomly because there's a part of him that likes you or wants to use you for when he is feeling lonely. It's as if there's no love there. He just gets a good feeling from hearing from you, but only when he needs it. Maybe all your responses to him should be in writing, or ask him for all his responses to be in writing. Be really demanding for your survival and confidence! You can still be open, but not let him walk all over you. Right now, it sounds like he's kind of walking all over you because he's communicating when he wants to, and you respond.

If you mean people in general, just remember, people in general are on the surface and care about themselves too much. You can compromise here and there, or at first, but if they aren't trying to reciprocate, then only offer options that benefit you. For instance, say you like video games, but you hate fighting video games and love platformers. You might play fighter video games once in awhile if you are trying to be social with someone, but then in turn if they won't play a platformer with you, then don't support that person until they help YOU in some way. It will never be easy. I may make it sound easy, but it never is!

 

[Vanilla]

Realized but not actualized and that's the toughest part of this all. I had finally just accepted I was never going to hear from him again and even though the reason why was unknown and still driving me nuts, even though I still felt in love with him and the only interest I had in dating was replicating him (part of why I was determined to just avoid it altogether indefinitely if need be), I was at least moving on enough to actually feel some day to day normal happiness and not obsess over it every minute any more. Now he's made contact again and once again he's driving me batsh*t insane analyzing everything and wondering why he talked to me via text for several hours saying he missed chatting with me then stopped unexpectedly and hasn't messaged me again for the past two days, fighting the urge to text him for anything because I'm tired of initiating all the time, generally grouchy because it seemed things were going somewhere at first but once again he slithered off with no apologies and no answers, just more questions from telling me indirectly that basically everything was my fault again, and MY ASPIE BRAIN CANNOT HANDLE ALL THESE INCONGRUENT PUZZLE PIECES. That's the main thing. I can't handle this many questions and contradictions at all. I wish he never talked to me again. I can handle a broken heart for a lifetime if need be but I so seriously cannot handle THIS crud even for a few months without it seriously affecting my happiness, my behavior, and ultimately my quality of life because it completely robs my focus from everything else. Is it me, is it him, if it is him why can't I figure him out, if it is me why can't I figure out what I'm doing wrong outside of just being human, etc... It's like me trying to figure out an NT that's a total stranger to me and has mysteriously gotten mad at me for an unknown reason x10. And I just want to hyper focus on it until I figure it out, like a super computer trying to figure out pi. I know it's likely impossible and worthless and not worth my time, but now it's the priority task locked into my system processes once again that can't be killed and I can't find the darn power button to reboot the whole system.

Sorry for ranting about my OT personal life on generalized thread I started. I just need the stress relief. I'm past my due date on this baby and I'm so sore and achy and cranky this added to it is a little too much.

I sent you a PM with some advice on your situation

 

[Daniel]

This guy sounds like the guy in that "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" song Taylor Swift wrote.

My formula involves cutting out people if they prove to be more difficult to communicate with than I am! I am growing to accept things I can't change--like other people's neuroses. He sounds pretty narcissistic, and that's not good for anyone. Most likely you can't figure him out because he hasn't got himself figured out.

I'm just getting out of an eleven-year codependent relationship myself. I'm not going to bother with a relationship again unless they can handle me, intensity and bluntness and all.

 

[rollerskate]

This guy sounds like the guy in that "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" song Taylor Swift wrote.

My formula involves cutting out people if they prove to be more difficult to communicate with than I am! I am growing to accept things I can't change--like other people's neuroses. He sounds pretty narcissistic, and that's not good for anyone. Most likely you can't figure him out because he hasn't got himself figured out.

I'm just getting out of an eleven-year codependent relationship myself. I'm not going to bother with a relationship again unless they can handle me, intensity and bluntness and all.

That's pretty much the point I'm at now. Not to sound egotistical but I really don't see much wrong with me. Yeah I get blunt, which isn't necessarily a BAD thing TBH, and I sometimes lack patience and temperance thus jump the gun and overreact, usually if I'm left in the dark for a long time, which drives me absolutely crazy because I need things to make sense... But I know plenty of people that are lacking there and their cases tend to be way more extreme and frequent than mine. And at least unlike most I'm aware of my issues, am frank about them, and try to improve in them (like trying to choose my words more carefully so others understand I'm sharing my thoughts and feelings in an attempt to resolve and not trying to attack them without compromising honesty and directness). Considering how self aware I am and how hard I try to be a better person, I would think at the very least I would deserve someone that realizes that and tries to work with and understand me just as hard as I do them. But the typical scenario is usually that no matter the one making the complaint as soon as they tell me their issues with me I both try to explain my reasoning to them and start trying to adapt my behavior to be more mindful of them, asking more questions about their own reasons if I need to, and then it seems with them whatever I've said about myself goes in one ear and out the other and I'm left being the only one even attempting to do anything about it. Then they keep complaining about the same thing over and over and don't even recognize my attempts to change it like it's just supposed to happen overnight.

Screw that.

I need someone where we can mutually understand that both may have undesirable traits and that both are trying to change but accept that some things may not be able to be change and be willing to understand and accept those things instead. Period. This is exactly what I see elderly couples that have been together for years doing... In fact they've mostly just stopped trying to change and just accept each other faults and all... They may still drive each other crazy at times but they accept that's part of life and relationships and not very long after you may witness them joking and teasing each other about their annoyances. I want a relationship like THAT.

Sigh. I think I may just go cry now, LOL.

 

[Daniel]

rollerskate, you don't sound egotistical at all... Sounds more like you need to be around people who are as self-aware and considerate as you are!

 

[Stacey]

Mine is very simple. I say...

Hello/ goodbye
Please/ thank you
How are you?/ I'm fine thank you

I elaborate when needed (talk about the weather) nod in the right places...then make my (polite) excuses and get away.
I also tend to ask very generic questions that require one word answers. Basically I bore people into leaving me alone.

 

[GoofKing]

I can't understand why NT's don't want talk about our obsessions but instead make small talk that's basically information exchange ... It's kind of like establishing an internet connection with another computer or network.

I think the only time they want to talk about anything but small talk is when it when has to do with a career or profession.