Dunning-Kruger Effect / Cognitive Biases

[Callistemon]

This is for anyone who's not heard of this interesting phenomenon, and related cognitive biases. Here's an introductory clip:

It's interesting that politics often favours the most confident over the most competent, who will not typically go making big pronouncements, or posture about how good they are.

A nice hyperlinked list of various different types of cognitive biases:

List of cognitive biases - Wikipedia

Always good (and good fun) to be aware of these. Very helpful to keep all this in mind when looking at and engaging in debates, and as an important topic for one's personal navelgazing / regular self-assessment.

If you know about this stuff, you're more likely to avoid doing it yourself, and you're more likely to recognise it when others engage in it. Metacognition is a cool thing!

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I have spoken many times on this topic. As you say, a very interesting phenomenon. As an educator and as someone who has 35+ years in respiratory care,...I am quite aware of where my students are,...my less experienced co-workers are,...and where I am. At this point, I have to sometimes just look at them and give them a little smile,...realizing they don't know what they don't know yet,...but they sure are confident about what little they know. It's quite humorous to me.

 

[Taylor Baker]

The entire YouTube ranting community in a nutshell.

 

[Darkkin]

I know I deal with functional stupidity, completely fail at metaphors, speak in idioms, and if I don't have context for something (usually pop culture related), I have look it up to know what the topic is about. Some related reading like:

You Are Not as Smart as You Think You Are by McRaney
You Are Now Less Dumb by McRaney
The Psychology of Stupidity by Marmion

I have face blindness, cannot remember or spell names, sound out words, count syllables, or do anything algebra related. I love reading picture books and faery tales. What I know in terms of knowledge is inadequate as per definitions of usefulness. (Star Trek movie quotes, despite Spock's logic and Bone's singular wit are not a viable font of insight (workable contextual framing).)

Like being mostly dead, I fall into the mostly stupid category. One benefit of this category, there are a lot of interesting things to discover.

Definition of metacognition

: awareness or analysis of one's own learning or thinking processes

as per Merriam-Webster.com

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

It's interesting that politics often favours the most confident over the most competent, who will not typically go making big pronouncements, or posture about how good they are.

Preaching to the choir. I feel that we have a kakistocracy which has allowed both an Oligarchy and christian Taliban to take root.

 

[Shaddock]

I´m smart.

Spoiler

this was ironic

@Callistemon the thread and the wikipedia link is very interesting. I knew some of the biases before.

 

[Darkkin]

Always thought this was a good insight.

 

[Forest Cat]

I know everything there is to know about those things,
so I don't need to watch the video.

 

[Aneka]

This is for anyone who's not heard of this interesting phenomenon, and related cognitive biases. Here's an introductory clip:

It's interesting that politics often favours the most confident over the most competent, who will not typically go making big pronouncements, or posture about how good they are.

A nice hyperlinked list of various different types of cognitive biases:

List of cognitive biases - Wikipedia

Always good (and good fun) to be aware of these. Very helpful to keep all this in mind when looking at and engaging in debates, and as an important topic for one's personal navelgazing / regular self-assessment.

If you know about this stuff, you're more likely to avoid doing it yourself, and you're more likely to recognise it when others engage in it. Metacognition is a cool thing!

That's why humanity doesn't advance. They prefer arrogance over intelligence.

 

[Magna]

I too find the various cognitive biases interesting. I don't see how it could be denied, for example, that most media is little more than thinly and ineffectually veiled propaganda. As such it interests me as to the level of cognitive bias at play in people who think that they're independent thinkers that just happen to share the same opinions and beliefs as most people (who are easily and unknowingly manipulated by the propaganda) when in reality they are not independent thinkers and many of them are likely incapable of it. That's an example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

An illustrative example of the thought process might look like this: "I'm an independent and critical thinker. I'm "tolerant" and open to considering viewpoints (as long as I and those that think the same way I do approve of them... (which isn't actually being tolerant at all, by the way)). Of course it's just a complete and continual coincidence that what I think, what I believe, what I get emotionally upset about at any given time aligns 100% (with no deviation) with the information put forth by the media that I and others that think like me approve of ."...

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I too find the various cognitive biases interesting. I don't see how it could be denied, for example, that most media is little more than thinly and ineffectually veiled propaganda. As such it interests me as to the level of cognitive bias at play in people who think that they're independent thinkers that just happen to share the same opinions and beliefs as most people (who are easily and unknowingly manipulated by the propaganda) when in reality they are not independent thinkers and many of them are likely incapable of it. That's an example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

An illustrative example of the thought process might look like this: "I'm an independent and critical thinker. I'm "tolerant" and open to considering viewpoints (as long as I and those that think the same way I do approve of them). Of course it's just a complete and continual coincidence that what I think, what I believe, what I get emotionally upset about at any given time aligns 100% (with no deviation) with the information put forth by the media that I and others that think like me approve of ."...

Dunning-Kruger effect | Definition, Examples, & Facts

@Magna At least by the description of the DK effect mentioned in the above link,...I am not sure cognitive bias as it pertains to perspective,...within the context of tribalism, propaganda, and incorporation of media bias, is actually the DK effect, in and of itself, per se. Perhaps there is some cross-over,...imagine a Venn diagram,...but I don't think it is the same. Agreed, that if one is living in an information "bubble" there will be "blind spots" in information,...limiting access to other perspectives. Certainly, this may create a condition where "one does not know what one does not know",...part of the DK effect.

This whole "free thinker" concept is a nebulous one. Certainly, it has been demonstrated experimentally that there is a small percentage of people, a subset, that do actually think quite differently than the majority,...and a high percentage of autistics fall within this subset. But more to your point, it would appear that the majority of people are not "free thinkers", but rather follow some social construct, perhaps a religion, or are heavily influenced by a particular person. Some people are, the walking, talking definition of the "sheep" they so adamantly claim they aren't as they are defiantly screaming "Freedom!!!",...whilst being part of a political movement that may promote autocratic leadership and religious law. The danger of this is well demonstrated by the saying, "Do not underestimate the power of dumb people in large groups." I say this as I watch what is happening to the US politically,...how the noisy minority,...the "lunatic fringe" on either side have gained influence and power, tearing us apart, threatening to dismantle our democracy and freedoms,...each day nibbling away at it in hopes no one will notice. But us "old farts" do see it.

 

[Darkkin]

Autism like the creative process is a global processing spectrum. Just as consciousness and creativity are global processes. A living biometric confluence not a linear spectrum like the light spectrum. It is interconnected and multidimensional. Mathmatically speaking it is ordered chaos.

The left to right spectrum illustrations are grossly inaccurate akin to the more or less autistic scales. The illustrations are interchangeable.

Circular or spherical graphics are more accurate representation. Sorry, I'm doing DK on info graphics of the autistic skill patterns.

A decent read on the creativity process:

Imagine: How Creativity Works by Jonah Lerher

After reading it I gained much more appreciation for Bob Dylan's work. While I'm not a fan of his music, I really respect the breadth and uniqueness of his creative process.

 

[Forest Cat]

After reading it I gained much more appreciation for Bob Dylan's work. While I'm not a fan of his music, I really respect the breadth and uniqueness of his creative process.

He is good at writing lyrics, but... I'm sure someone wants me dead for saying this, but his voice is not fantastic. It's not pleasant to listen to. He has a voice that is good for silent movies.

 

[Darkkin]

He is good at writing lyrics, but... I'm sure someone wants me dead for saying this, but his voice is not fantastic. It's not pleasant to listen to. He has a voice that is good for silent movies.

 

[Darkkin]

Getting back on track. There is a direct connection between one's consciousness of one's context and true understanding.

To wit: The Conservation of Spoons

Everyone is entitled to their opinion as frustrating as some of them can be, just as everyone is entitled to their opinion of said individual voicing the opinion. There is nothing that says, we (the individual) cannot be of the opinion that the opinion wielder (dissenter) is an idiot.

More often than not, it is easy to identify bullies, baiters, and trolls. They are chock full of their own superiority over their fellow beings and refuse to be swayed by any amount of logic. Their opinion is in fact, law. Fact. These are the brick throwers without context. See one, check your context if at all possible, and save your spoons. Let the troll guard his bridge, there is nothing keeping others from booking a flight online and going around the fool.

Trolls tend to be so busy guarding their bridges and hoards that they will starve if others do not feed them. As starvation is a very slow process, it can take a while. And while poking a troll with a stick can offer some entertaining results, we know the axiom. It also puts the proddee on the same side as the prodder (troll) because the proddee is doing the exact same behaviour as the prodder.

Sometimes trolls are not even aware of their context.

e.g. We had some students from the university see our display of banned books and decide that it was against the law as the books were 'banned'. They thought they needed to call the police. (Yes, people are truly that ignorant).

These 'students' had absolutely no understanding of what banning a book meant in the context of reality. The books were removed from school curriculums, not banished from publication and distribution through libraries and bookshops. Talk about a violation of the first amendment rights and free trade. These are the people who tend to patrol bridges and hoards simply because their opinion is 'fact'.

The 'students' convinced they were right and that the books were illegal. Thusly, by offering them for sale our shop was culpable under the law; they called law enforcement...The screaming match with dispatch that followed was a conversation that has become legend at our store.

Because what is a clerk at a bookshop going to know? It's retail for godsake...and the 'students', they were in college, which obviously these 'retail' people were too stupid to get into.

(This situation was almost a stereotype of the Dunning-Krueger Effect.)

Stupidity is a cultural standard, painful to all who are conscious (note the hyperspecificity of the language, conscious not smart, functional stupidity is a very real thing that has nothing to do with intellect) enough to witness it. We see it every day. Is it really worth the effort it takes to muster and process the emotional fall out of hate?

 

[Aspychata]

Just proves this:
Fake it till you make it.
Or until you break it.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Always thought this was a good insight.

Who but Abraham Lincoln in his backwoods humor could say "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

 

[Aspychata]

Or just be a fool, and let whoever doubt, then walk freely with intelligence undetected. (It's called masking). We learn and mask appropriately in this lifetime. Sometimes appearing stupid is a gift, then wandering along in aspie fashion is a blessing. Said here today by Ms. Aspychata in 2022.

 

[Darkkin]

Or just be a fool, and let whoever doubt, then walk freely with intelligence undetected. (It's called masking). We learn and mask appropriately in this lifetime. Sometimes appearing stupid is a gift, then wandering along in aspie fashion is a blessing. Said here today by Ms. Aspychata in 2022.

This is precisely why I rarely talk to people outside of my immediate circle or work. I speak in infodumps and hyperspecifics. I don't like people knowing there is as much going on in my head as there is because they can get weird about it. Legitimately smart people have a tendency to make others uncomfortable.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

how the noisy minority,...the "lunatic fringe" on either side have gained influence and power, tearing us apart, threatening to dismantle our democracy and freedoms,...each day nibbling away at it in hopes no one will notice. But us "old farts" do see it.

We were born of parents that went through the depression and WW II and who were stoic. We were born in the McCarthy era. Where "duck and cover" was a useless drill with the nuclear weapons even of that age. The Cuban Missile Crisis, assassinations, and Vietnam, where poorer people were overrepresented in the draft, saw just the beginning of today