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Electric bike inquiry

paloftoon

paloftoon

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Hi. I have a friend who needs to consider an electric bike for work. We've determined that we want to try to avoid the cheapest bike if at all possible because it probably won't last long enough. Since it would be for work, durability is important. Cost is a big factor because he doesn't have a lot to work with. So, basically, "one step" above the cheapest electric bike is what we're looking for.

Any model recommendations or features we should or should not consider?

Thank you.
 
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I have a couple of tips for owning one.

Never ever leave it on the charger overnight, that's how most battery fires start.

Regularly check on it while charging, feel around where the batteries are to make sure they aren't getting hot. If they do feel a little warm immediately stop charging and get the bike outside where it can't cause as much harm. Do not wait to see if it'll cool down again, get it outside immediately.

Only ever use the charger that came with that particular bike, they are not all the same and they are not interchangeable like phone chargers.

To get the longest life out of the batteries never let the charge drop below 20% and only charge them up to around 80% full.

Unit explodes into flames after hot e-scooter battery put in freezer
 
Part of the problem is electric bikes are built in batches usually in China, and each batch is usually to a new design and parts availability outside China by the importers are usually considered as an afterthought. One gentleman specializing in repairing them in the USA said he has many of his customers bikes off the road for weeks or even months. His recommendation that I also agree with is to take a suitable ordinary bike and using a conversion kit, converting it into an electric bike, as if one has issues with parts, one can either buy another electric conversion kits if parts don't arrive, or convert the bike back to an ordinary bike (Keep the ordinary bike parts) to keep oneself on the road.
Now electric bikes are a little better when built as electric bikes, but the achilles heel of the parts issue, a kit to convert an ordinary bike is likely to be the better long term alternative.

Now regarding potential fires. Always charge in an outbuilding away from ones house so in the rare event that a fire does happen, it is at worst, only going to destroy a less valuable outbuilding. NEVER be tempted to charge an electric bike or scooter or electric car in a garage attached built as part of the house or in the house.
Many car insurance are insisting on this and that the electric car is no where near the house when being charged.
 
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Laws in different countries need to be taken in to account as well, and they are also something that are continuously evolving. In Australia if the bike can do over 25 Km per hour under it's own power then it is classed as a motorbike and requires roadworthy compliance, registration, insurance and a valid license. Riding one without those things will cause you to lose your driver's license as well as pay hefty fines.
 
You might want to shop for a used bike. You can look up issues that may have appeared in that model year. If the original battery is bad, a lot of people will just give up on the bike instead of finding a good replacement. I highly recommend getting a pedelec, not a simple hand throttle. If the pedals respond instantly, like power brakes, you feel like Bionic Superman. If you can ride just on a hand control, you feel like Marlon McWimpo on the world's worst motorcycle, but your legs are not a significant improvement.
 
Captain Caveman said:
Now regarding potential fires. Always charge in an outbuilding away from ones house so in the rare event that a fire does happen, it is at worst, only going to destroy a less valuable outbuilding. NEVER be tempted to charge an electric bike or scooter or electric car in a garage attached built as part of the house or in the house.
Click to expand...
In the US, 1 in 15,000 e-bikes will experience a fire. A handful of reasons for this. A contributing factor is due to the specific lithium-ion battery chemistry, which is not the same as in an electric car. EV fires in the US are about 25 for every 100,000, which in comparison to internal combustion vehicles is 1,530 for every 100,000. In other words, in terms of fire risk, you are 61X LESS likely to experience a vehicle fire in an EV. E-bike battery fire statistics 2025
Electric Vehicle Fire Staged to Study Environmental, Health Ramifications - InventUM.
Captain Caveman said:
Many car insurance are insisting on this and that the electric car is no where near the house when being charged.
Click to expand...
I was unable to find ANY insurance companies in the US that have stated this, nor do they ask if you charge inside your attached garage. Nearly every home owner in the US with an attached garage and an EV will charge within their garage. There are some articles claiming that one insurance company has removed the EV charging stations located within their own parking garages. However, statistically speaking, internal combustion vehicles account for the overwhelming majority of garage fires.
 
The person who wants an ebike does not have a garage nor a place nearby to charge the bike. If he did have another spot, it would likely get stolen. So, he would have to charge the bike and keep an eye on it constantly basically?

He also lives upstairs. So, weight of the bike can potentially be an issue to go up/down as well it looks like because it can be between 30-80 lbs?
 
paloftoon said:
The person who wants an ebike does not have a garage nor a place nearby to charge the bike. If he did have another spot, it would likely get stolen. So, he would have to charge the bike and keep an eye on it constantly basically?
Click to expand...
I'm in exactly the same situation, my bike lives in my kitchen where it also blocks my back door. Because of this I am very careful with it and keep a good eye on it. (I'm on ground level though)

In general as long as you're never overcharging it there shouldn't be any problems but it does pay to be aware of the possible dangers. Statistics are irrelevant to me, I don't intend to be the 1 in so many thousands.
 
paloftoon said:
Apparently, if the person doesn't have a license, they can't have a bike that goes over 20 mph either :/
Click to expand...
I can't verify this is the case online. But of course, I'm not going to argue with the person who needs the e-bike who is stating that. His problem, but I am just trying to help him as a friend.
 
paloftoon said:
The bike user would be based in Pennsylvania in the US, and it appears that a license is not required.
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Correct.

"One of the most appealing aspects of an electric bike is the simplicity of getting started. Ebikes are not subjected to the registration, licensing, or insurance requirements that apply to motor vehicles. This means you can ride an ebike without the bureaucratic hurdles involved in operating a car or motorcycle."

"In Pennsylvania, an electric bike is considered a “pedalcycle with electric assist” provided it meets certain criteria:
  • The electric motor must be under 750 watts.
  • It can reach a maximum speed of 20 mph on a level surface when powered solely by the motor.
  • The ebike must weigh no more than 100 lbs and have operable pedals."

Essential Pennsylvania Ebike Laws For 2025: Your Ultimate Guide - The Cyclist Choice

Seems to me that charging stations on the premises are still manageable to insurers, contingent with meeting underwriting guidelines. Personally I have more concerns over lithium battery exposures outdoors, in areas with inherently high combustibility. Like our desert, where even a small fire can move very quickly, fueled by cheatgrass and the wind.

Insuring An Electric Car And How It Affects Your Homeowners' Insurance
 
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Neonatal RRT said:
In the US, 1 in 15,000 e-bikes will experience a fire. A handful of reasons for this. A contributing factor is due to the specific lithium-ion battery chemistry, which is not the same as in an electric car. EV fires in the US are about 25 for every 100,000, which in comparison to internal combustion vehicles is 1,530 for every 100,000. In other words, in terms of fire risk, you are 61X LESS likely to experience a vehicle fire in an EV. E-bike battery fire statistics 2025
Electric Vehicle Fire Staged to Study Environmental, Health Ramifications - InventUM.

I was unable to find ANY insurance companies in the US that have stated this, nor do they ask if you charge inside your attached garage. Nearly every home owner in the US with an attached garage and an EV will charge within their garage. There are some articles claiming that one insurance company has removed the EV charging stations located within their own parking garages. However, statistically speaking, internal combustion vehicles account for the overwhelming majority of garage fires.
Click to expand...

I was watching a gentleman who had an electric Porsche in the UK on YouTube and he heard owners of these electric Porsches had a letter through after one or two caught fire while charging saying not to charge them close to a house and not to charge them over 80% of a charge.
Due to this he checked with his insurance as his car and his house were insured with the complain who he had been with for over 20 years, and they seemed OK with it as he had not had a letter so they said all was ok. Then a few days later they rang back and said that when his insurances came up for renewal, they would not cover his car or his house.
Since then he could not get house insurance (He owns his house so is not essential) and he had to change to another insurer with a much higher cost.

The issue with electric vehicles is not so much the likelihood that it might happen, but the heat and the force of the flames from the batteries and the difficulty in putting them out. Piston engined fires usually involve petroleum as diesel is a fuel that needs great heat before it catches light. (Anyone who has tried throwing diesel on a bonfire will find that out as it puts the flames out!) Petrol (Or diesel) fires are relatively easy to deal with as it is a case of smothering the fuel with foam. Electric vehicles from what I gather they basically let them burn themselves out and dose the area around them with lots of water to try to prevent anything around them from catching fire.
 
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Captain Caveman said:
I was watching a gentleman who had an electric Porsche in the UK on YouTube and he heard owners of these electric Porsches had a letter through after one or two caught fire while charging saying not to charge them close to a house and not to charge them over 80% of a charge.
Due to this he checked with his insurance as his car and his house were insured with the complain who he had been with for over 20 years, and they seemed OK with it as he had not had a letter so they said all was ok. Then a few days later they rang back and said that when his insurances came up for renewal, they would not cover his car or his house.
Since then he could not get house insurance (He owns his house so is not essential) and he had to change to another insurer with a much higher cost.

The issue with electric vehicles is not so much the likelihood that it might happen (There has actually been a statistical cover up in some countries and I know this as one went up near here but they refuse to mention it), but it is more that on the few rare occasions it has happened, one is looking at such a ferocious fire that in the case I know about, it did not just destroy the EV, but took out many campers/caravans with it along with a salesroom, with 60ft high flames and it took 14 fire engines (I thought it was 11 but saw 14 mentioned) a fair few hours to put it out. There was hardly anything left. Yet a few days before I passed and admired their new electric camper van on display, as I saw a lovely little caravan behind. The place is now being rebuilt. Now I can understand motor insurance companies not wanting to take risks, and the issue is for them, while they know through experience the statistical risks of piston engined cars with diesels being much safer than petrol cars, it is the speed and the force of the flames when EV's go up that is the concern. One electric bus went up in London where they had about five seconds to get out. When piston vehicles go up, one usually has time to pull in, get out and retire to a safe distance. The piston engined vehicles which are the worse cases are those running off LPG (Fuel stations have mostly stopped selling it in the UK, as it has been a long time before I heard anyone being able to fill their dual fuel vehicles and their car insurance went sky high after a few exploded on them when they developed a leak), and modern European piston engined cars (Usually German) with highly explosive gasses used in their air conditioning systems which were said to be "Enviromentally friendly"...
Click to expand...
So, something to consider. Battery chemistry is everything when it comes to heat and thermal runaway. The Chevy Bolt also had a similar issue with this. "Don't charge beyond 90%", "Only charge outdoors". All it takes is a few, like literally a few fires, and it makes international news. Yet every day, if you watch your local news, you will hear about a "vehicle fire" and nobody bats an eyelash. Nearly 1 in 10 fires that firefighters deal with are vehicle fires. Nobody cares. A "Tesla" gets in an accident or a fire, everyone loses their fricken minds and our news feeds blow up with all sorts of FUD, but in reality, these events are incredibly rare. Here's the deal though, battery chemistry changes all the time, even within the same model year of vehicle. 2023 statistics mean nothing in 2025, as they are literally different, and hopefully, better batteries.
 
Captain Caveman said:
The issue with electric vehicles is not so much the likelihood that it might happen...
Click to expand...
In Australia we've been having a lot of fires in rubbish trucks, people keep throwing batteries in the regular recycle bins and when the truck collects a few bins and then compresses his load they catch fire.

In general there's only two reasons they'll catch fire. Overcharging is a real problem, that will often set them off. The other reason is damage. The most common type of damage can't be seen by the naked eye, if there's a dry solder joint (poorly soldered, weak connection) between two of the individual little batteries in the battery pack and you've gone over one too many rough bumps then there's a danger of that solder joint getting hot during charging.

Australia just introduced a whole new raft of legislation about safety standards and testing of batteries that almost instantly stopped a few of the cheaper imports, now we have to wait and see if it makes much difference. There's not been many car fires here and as far as I know they were all involved in accidents, not many bike fires either, it seems to be mostly the scooters that are the problem and that's probably partly to do with cheap manufacturing.
 
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Judge said:
Correct.

"One of the most appealing aspects of an electric bike is the simplicity of getting started. Ebikes are not subjected to the registration, licensing, or insurance requirements that apply to motor vehicles. This means you can ride an ebike without the bureaucratic hurdles involved in operating a car or motorcycle."

"In Pennsylvania, an electric bike is considered a “pedalcycle with electric assist” provided it meets certain criteria:
  • The electric motor must be under 750 watts.
  • It can reach a maximum speed of 20 mph on a level surface when powered solely by the motor.
  • The ebike must weigh no more than 100 lbs and have operable pedals."

Essential Pennsylvania Ebike Laws For 2025: Your Ultimate Guide - The Cyclist Choice

Seems to me that charging stations on the premises are still manageable to insurers, contingent with meeting underwriting guidelines. Personally I have more concerns over lithium battery exposures outdoors, in areas with inherently high combustibility. Like our desert, where even a small fire can move very quickly, fueled by cheatgrass and the wind.

Insuring An Electric Car And How It Affects Your Homeowners' Insurance
Click to expand...

So, if a person wanted a license for an e-bike, would they need to be able to get a license for driving a car?
That is something else I'm unable to figure out.
 
paloftoon said:
So, if a person wanted a license for an e-bike, would they need to be able to get a license for driving a car?
That is something else I'm unable to figure out.
Click to expand...

From what I see, there simply is no such license obtainable in the state of Pennsylvania.

That the issue is mutually exclusive of anything relative to a drivers license.
 
Judge said:
From what I see, there simply is no such license obtainable in the state of Pennsylvania.

That the issue is mutually exclusive of anything relative to a drivers license.
Click to expand...
There are ebikes that go above 20 mph.

So, this would imply that you need a driver's license in order to be able to drive a bike that has a max speed greater than 20 mph since there is no ebike license you could obtain.
 
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