Guilt For Being Able to Find a Bit of Wonder

[Darkkin]

There is such a thing as toxic positivity, this much is true. And while negative emotions suck, they do have a purpose. They are the foil that allows one to understand what contentment, happiness, and fun are.

Recently though, it seems like there are some people who begrudge those feelings to those who find them. As if one is being selfish for being okay, happy, even. The term narcissistic has popped up. The simple act of being content, at stasis with one's self in itself is a selfish act because one has found a bright side.

I understand anxiety, frustration, sadness. I can and do empathise with them. I listen as often as I can because I know it helps to talk it out. I also have enough sense to know when I don't have spoons to spare and will limit contact.

Negative emotions out number the positive ones by droves and legions. Finding the lamb with the silver lining in a tidal wave of black sheep can be nearly impossible, but it often happens in the little things. Every day victories. Just because it isn't huge doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

Somebody notices something you did without having to be asked. Genuinely laughed at something you said or wrote, etc. Where and how do these little things become diagnostic criteria for narcissism? Why is it not okay for a person to have relatively decent self-esteem, esteem that is rooted in the little things? Why do some people have to make it seem like an attention seeking, narcissistic action?

I do not understand the need to destroy another's peace or contentment simply because one knows how to find it. There is no manipulation or mental gymnastics involved.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

 

[Judge]

Good post.

When I think of a general sense of contentment, for me first and foremost it signifies my clinical depression is ebbing rather than flowing. Not something related to narcissism at all, IMO. No guilt required. I have to savor those "feel good" moments. No matter what others may think.

Though when I also feel some sense of elation, I also am mindful that it never lasts all that long either. While I can be acutely aware of whether my depression ebbs or flows, I cannot stop the process itself.

 

[Darkkin]

A stupid little thing that made my day yesterday was my best friend laughing at me for walking in the door with another sad violet and plopping it on my tray in the kitchen.

She completely lost it when I turned around and said: 'I bought myself the damned flowers.' She laughed so hard she was crying. And it does one good to hear others laugh like that. I didn't laugh, but I smiled and I got my sad flowers.

 

[LadyS]

I've said it before in other posts and it applies here too: its a defense mechanism, some people attack others for things they themselves are insecure about or have not succeeded in attaining. They want to make themselves feel better by downplaying others' happiness or tainting it so to make it look less desirable.

I've never heard of anyone calling another a narcissist simply for being content and happy though. Sounds like a symptom of another problem. It also depends on how their happiness is presented. If one is constantly bragging about it and rubbing it in others' faces then it might make sense. I have a few of those in my family.

 

[Darkkin]

Personally, I think those who try to squelch the small moments are the ones to be wary of, not those seeing the small things.

 

[Tom]

I see negative people kind of like ogres, trolls or orcs, or perhaps human pathogens. Something to be avoided to all extent possible.

Positive people are fine and I try and be one myself. Everything has it's limits however, so it is possible (though rare) to be too positive. I think that is when the person is unable or willing to recognize/respond to problems that need being dealt with.

But guilt? Definately not. That's like feeling guilty for being an antibiotic and regreting having to kill all those poor strep bacteria.

 

[Darkkin]

Positive people are fine and I try and be one myself. Everything has it's limits however, so it is possible (though rare) to be too positive. I think that is when the person is unable or willing to recognize/respond to problems that need being dealt with.

Like a kid without some sort of structure and reasonable rules. Harm becomes likely.

 

[1ForAll]

I would never equate a positive or optimistic person as indicating a sign of a narcissist. As well, one showing adequate or even above average to great self-esteem I would never see as necessarily narcissistic behavior or personality either. In fact, many or most narcissists likely have poor self esteem, and they are just as negative as positive about many others and many things, if not more negative than positive there.

A narcissist has often very exaggerated self-worth, to hide and compensate for the hate, shame or criticisms they internally feel for themselves. Those objects and persons that do not inflate their positive public image up are often critiqued, rejected, pushed away or hidden. These persons actually often have very poor self-esteem, and this can be seen when they lash back at those who can see through those exaggerations.

A positive or optimistic person, or one with healthy self-esteem, does not need constant admiration from others, to exaggerate their importance, and they do not need to put others down much, because they are good at finding that good that exists in all things, even not-so-good things, and in focusing on the other good things they see in life too when they need a shift in attention there.

Most optimistic and positive persons do not need constant validation from others as they are not fragile persons who needs others' admiration to feel positive in this world, with many of them not necessarily needing to be seen as hugely successful in life, as they can see the good in even those less glamorous and idolized things.

I consider myself as mostly a positive person and an optimist, and I had to train myself to be this way through my own daily efforts, and naturally over time I became this way, too, to not get too down or anxious in life. I am the exact opposite of a narcissist in that I could care less if others know I am disabled or not, and I could care less about power, prestige and admiration from others. I focus on efforts, not results, and I find the beauty in small and unique things, more so than large. I do not need attention, and relate more to modest, selfless, and unpopular persons.

 

[Gerontius]

I've never seen a happy narcissist.

It's almost as if being happy & being manipulative and abusive are mutually exclusive.

 

[LadyS]

I've never seen a happy narcissist.

It's almost as if being happy & being manipulative and abusive are mutually exclusive.

A friend of mine is married to one and ya he is one miserable guy. Those kinds of personalities are hard to satisfy and not fun to be around.

 

[Darkkin]

What I truly don't understand is taking something that is meant to be light-hearted and a little frivolous and treating it as if it is on par with cultish pandering.

I guess that is part of what is really bothering me. It is just such a disproportionate reaction without an inciting incident. It isn't logical.

Why should someone be resentful of others' enjoyment, especially when that enjoyment is shared and not derived from any type of harm.

This, this is why I would be a completely incompetent bad guy. That and guilt...it finds me, even when I know I've done nothing wrong and I'm an independent, reasonable responsible adult. (Motivational anxiety and guilt cocktail.)

I want to be fair and open minded, but some folks make it very hard to be polite and reasonably kind. My instinctive reaction is to listen to my INFJ hunch and do the doorslam from the start, but that isn't right or fair so I watch, listen. If I see the pattern, I shutdown all interaction.

Downside of the double empathy paradox, if you try to be petty it comes back to bite you. Twice. Good workaround, humour.

 

[Richelle-H]

I believe that everyone has a bit of narcissism at their core. It only becomes a problem if that is all there is. Anyone that calls someone a narcissist for being positive or looking out for themselves has no understanding of what true narcissism is.

Donald Trump is an example of truly Toxic Narcissism. Everything, no matter what, is about him, always him, only him. He cares nothing about anything but his own image and his own warped beliefs.

I have never met anyone in real life that rises to that level and certainly no one I have read or seen posts from on this site rises to the level I would call narcisisstic. It is completely healthy to have a bit of it as a part of your personality, otherwise you are a whipping post waiting to be beaten up by offhand comments.

Just my opinion and I pray none take offense over this post.

 

[Darkkin]

The tone of this forum, it speaks of acceptance and openness. It gives users a comfortable platform to unmask. It allows us to be ourselves without the heavy NT 'normal' trappings.

People on here are articulate and just plain interesting. The fact that I've talked more in the last two weeks than I have in the prior three months is saying something, literally. (Pardon the pun.)

Generally, I don't talk much unless directly engaged, mostly at work, but that's books, I could talk about them all day.

Here, I'm not an outlier. I'm simply me. I don't have to hide the fact that I have brains, that I struggle to understand certain things, and that I tend to be optimistic in spite of myself. I get mad, but I don't stay mad. And if something bothers me, by gum I can say something.

 

[Wolfnox]

Simple. Misery loves company.

 

[Darkkin]

Simple. Misery loves company.

Not mine. I'll empathise up to a point, but if I sense a pity party, I'm out. I won't commit spoons to someone I have to walk on eggshells with.

Thankfully there is a lot of ground between those who go to pieces if someone sneezes too hard and those who monger negativity. Like autism, emotions are a spectrum.

Is that selfishness or self-preservation? And when you work hard to reach a place where you are okay it takes a hell of an enticement to alter the status quo.

 

[Fino]

Is this your family that you're referring to? None of this is a part of my reality. Happiness far outweighs unhappiness.

 

[Darkkin]

Is this your family that you're referring to? None of this is a part of my reality. Happiness far outweighs unhappiness.

No. My family have their flaws, but they have always been there for me. (Pretty sheltered upbringing, between Mom and two sets of grandparents.) Mom is the first one I call if I get stuck in stupid mode. I just have a tendency to be very picky about who I actively engage with IRL. I am weirdly sensitive to the emotions of others and if there is tension I pick up on it. (Helping college classmates move, gaming nights, etc.)

The situations are rarer now, but I have encountered them and I couldn't stand the static on a profound level. Next chance of an encounter with the static sources, I ghost. My social circles are smaller now I'm done with school, but there are still a few people I encounter tangentially. In cases where I cannot ghost, I go quiet and stay quiet. It is selective mutism and one of the biggest tells something or someone makes me uneasy.

Some of it I know is residual from the screaming matches between my parents when I was little. They divorced when I was three and everybody was better for it. But any sort of anger or fighting, I cannot handle. I will remove myself from the situation just as I tried to hide under the bed when I was young. It is also why I will remove myself from a situation when I'm actively upset. My guilt monster has massive fangs and I do not want to say something that I know will hurt someone.

 

[Slim Jim]

Recently though, it seems like there are some people who begrudge those feelings to those who find them. As if one is being selfish for being okay, happy, even. The term narcissistic has popped up. The simple act of being content, at stasis with one's self in itself is a selfish act because one has found a bright side.

Being discontented is never a good sign. Being content is when you desire nothing, lack nothing, it is the opposite of selfishness. Being selfish, usually stems from discontent. We are a discontented society. Nothing is ever good enough. We always want more,more ,more. Hence, tearing down others, can turn into a pastime.

No, you're not being selfish, if you feel happy. Everybody feels what they want. No body can tell you what to feel. It's no under their control. It's not even their business. They don't have that right. That's moralizing. Trying to dictate to your own emotions. It's cheap ploy to control you. And It's complete BS.

My thoughts on the matter.

 

[Fino]

No. My family have their flaws, but they have always been there for me. (Pretty sheltered upbringing, between Mom and two sets of grandparents.) Mom is the first one I call if I get stuck in stupid mode. I just have a tendency to be very picky about who I actively engage with IRL. I am weirdly sensitive to the emotions of others and if there is tension I pick up on it. (Helping college classmates move, gaming nights, etc.)

The situations are rarer now, but I have encountered them and I couldn't stand the static on a profound level. Next chance of an encounter with the static sources, I ghost. My social circles are smaller now I'm done with school, but there are still a few people I encounter tangentially. In cases where I cannot ghost, I go quiet and stay quiet. It is selective mutism and one of the biggest tells something or someone makes me uneasy.

Some of it I know is residual from the screaming matches between my parents when I was little. They divorced when I was three and everybody was better for it. But any sort of anger or fighting, I cannot handle. I will remove myself from the situation just as I tried to hide under the bed when I was young. It is also why I will remove myself from a situation when I'm actively upset. My guilt monster has massive fangs and I do not want to say something that I know will hurt someone.

I respond the same way to anger and fighting.

 

[Darkkin]

I wasn't supposed to work today, but they called so I went in. And it was a good day.

Books I had been waiting on came in.
Found something I didn't need.
Got four strip cover reads.
Did a chore I had been putting off.
And was gifted an itty bitty triceratops.
On top of that my best friend brought home cupcakes.

It doesn't look like much, but it matters to those who can see the everyday wins.