Half-real imaginary friend and a bunch of problems

[claudiop]

I am 16 and i have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome many years ago (at least 6 years ago), but i only knew that i had the condition about two months ago.
Since then i have read two books (from Christopher Gillberg and Tony Attwood) to know more about my syndrome, while i tried to be more skeptical and study a little more what i do and how do people react to my actions(in order to compare to the books).
I found a vivid presence of symptoms in my behavior, and when i try to behave correctly for someone (like for example a situation when i really don't want to fail), i have a devastating amount of anxiety, just before the panic state after my first thought of how bad it was.

My problem is that i started(about a year ago) to see a girl at the train which i recognized from somewhere, but i didn't remembered where.
I found that the girl was in my "new" school, but it was in the start of the school year, so i must know her from somewhere else. After some days i found her profile in a social network, from which i discovered that she was also from my "old" school.
As i always made the whole way(~40Km train) alone, (because no one else went to my school) i became curious with the hypothesis of having someone to talk.
Unfortunately... i never had courage to start a conversation. Always when i caught her in the train, i just started observing her, and imagine how would a conversation be.
After some months, i finally met her (indirectly, with some sort of miracle...), because one of her friends took some pictures of me and two classmates. As usual i was in panic and trying to disguise as if i were not paying attention, but it was impossible, the cardiac rhythm was simple too fast(due to the anxiety) and my face turned red (which drew her friend attention).
I met (with a lot of embarrassment) her friend, and we became sort of known. At the time, i was curious and also wanted to became friend of her friend, mostly because we were very different, but it wasn't easy, because of "communication problem".
Anyway, it was at least enough to go with them in the way home, so i finally met her. As we met, she started to greet, and spoke with me more frequently, but i didn't improved anything and mostly i stayed quiet as a rock, or i tried some failed attempts to speak (in which i only said random crap).
Time went fast forward, and i really wanted to be able to speak to her, before the summer break, but without success.
As usual, in the summer break, i spent most of the time alone (at the computer, cycling, or photographing), and a small amount of time with the three (real-)friends that the last year left, but when i was alone it was frequent to remember in my mind her name from nowhere( not from hallucinations, just thought), to the point that(i think) that i developed an imaginary friend from her(most of the things i did, i did thinking that she was there, but knowing that she wasn't).
Some days before the school year started, i became aware of my syndrome by reading by mistake my "obscure psychological diagnosis", which classifies me as an gifted brain(144IQ WAIS-R at 8 years old) with Asperger syndrome, with dozens of disabilities in the social area, which vary between light and severe (all of the "direct communication"(and many others) areas, have a severe dysfunction).
As i became aware of my problems, i risked a little more in my defects, to check the results. My classmates didn't noticed any difference, but i noticed a lot of mistakes i've made in social situations.
As i was unnoticed between my classmates, i decided to try the same(check my behavior to find flaws, and see what can i do to improve ) with her.
It simply didn't worked, because i was unable to keep calm with her. The anxiety became worst, and i reached the panic state much more frequently. When i was quiet, i couldn't think in anything, because my mind was kind of overflowed. I was thinking in everything at the same time, except what was really needed.
After some extensive mind monologue at home, i discovered that some of the symptoms of the syndrome were not present with her (like ADHD, DAMP, OCD, bipolarity and prosopagnosia), while some (like SPD, memory and anxiety) were overly present.
After some days, and a lot of reading, i finally reached the conclusion that most of what i knew about her was fake and only imagination. The "ideal friend" that i had in mind for months, was only a mask that my mind put over that random girl.
Since then i didn't cared, i tried even more to know her better at least to remove the fake image, but that gave unexpected results...
After some days, i knew indirectly from my classmates (i don't really know how true it is), that she is tired of seeing me two/three times a week, because everyone thinks that i am stalking her.
Since then, i've been laughed by my classmates(which i don't care a lot), at the same time that i have depression after depression because i feel myself for some reason incomplete, and i feel the need to simply met someone successfully. It's a strange feeling, which i don't understand well, but gives lots of headaches.

What can i do to solve my problem? It is a good idea to try to approach the girl(should i try to explain this to her?)?
I'm just looking for some path to remove this ton of thoughts, out of my head, please help.

Sorry, poor English from a barely slept, depressed guy.:bored:
Regards

 

[buckyboy14]

I have been called a stalker more times than I can count due to my fascination with addresses. Maybe you should try to explain your plight to her, but also keep your distance. I know kids this age (because I'm also 16) and if they see you with her AT ALL, they're going to say you're stalking her, even though you're not. So, try to keep your distance for a few days and see if the accusations die down.

 

[claudiop]

I have done that the last few days, but it's so hard (to me) to ignore people, as if i don't pretend to talk (when i do, a lot).
I'll try to wait till i find an oportune moment (like catch her in the train alone) to ask her for a moment to talk, and explain everything.
My fear is to receive a rejection, because even thought that specific girl means nothing, her "fake persona" means a lot.

Thanks for your help

 

[smith2267]

Everyone experiences more failures than successes when trying to establish relationships, and aspies no doubt have worse luck than most.
But the payout is big when you finally find someone who appreciates you. Don't worry about making mistakes or seeming weird. You are aspie. You ARE weird. sooner or later someone will like it. And try not to dwell on failures.

I'm 46, and I've had a few friendships in my life that were rewarding. Lots of failures, too.

PS, don't try to hide your weirdness but don't cram it down her throat either. If you tell her about the fake persona you gave her, wait until you've established a relationship.
Neurotypicals meet and interact with a lot more people than we do. As a result, they like to make quick judgments about people--it saves them time. You don't want to be the victim of a snap negative judgment

 

[Soup]

Hi claudiop!

Thanks for the detailed post! First off, before even approaching this girl with anything whatsoever, try to be crystal clear about what the parameters of your friendship are. Is she merely a casual acquaintance? Do you guys call each other & chat? Do you go places together as friends or in a group of friends? How much time have you actually spent together?

If the answers to the above indicate a very causal acquaintance, you need to at least become friends before you begin telling her about having feelings for her. At this point, if you hardly know her, your feelings are more for the 'fantasy persona' you've created around this person. It is critical that you separate the fantasy woman & all you've imagined her to be, from the real person. The REAL person is someone you don't know much about right now: she may be nothing like what you've imagined & she deserves to be seen for who she is; not something you've imagined & layered over her.

If others are accusing you of stalking her, I'd suggest you give it some thought. ARE you following her? Are you casually showing up in places where you know she'll be? Are you staring at her or watching her? If this is the case, I still wouldn't put you into the deranged stalker category. Stalkers are people who are a danger to others. They are malicious & predatory. You don't seem to be that sort: you sound more like a young person with a harmless crush BUT not on a real person: but on the imaginary one.

Please do not talk with her about your personal feelings yet & by all means DO NOT mention the imaginary friend persona you've been fantasizing about. The likely response is for her to be creeped-out & want nothing to do with you. Remember: only YOU know you're not some dangerous nut. SHE doesn't know that. Try to not feed the fantasy. You need to let the imaginary version of her go & stop feeding the fantasy if you ever want to get to know her as an actual real flesh & blood person with her own very real personality.

 

[smith2267]

I'd listen to Soup, she's probably the most functional aspie here.

 

[Soup]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Smith2267!

 

[claudiop]

Everyone experiences more failures than successes when trying to establish relationships, and aspies no doubt have worse luck than most.
But the payout is big when you finally find someone who appreciates you. Don't worry about making mistakes or seeming weird. You are aspie. You ARE weird. sooner or later someone will like it. And try not to dwell on failures.

I'm 46, and I've had a few friendships in my life that were rewarding. Lots of failures, too.

PS, don't try to hide your weirdness but don't cram it down her throat either. If you tell her about the fake persona you gave her, wait until you've established a relationship.
Neurotypicals meet and interact with a lot more people than we do. As a result, they like to make quick judgments about people--it saves them time. You don't want to be the victim of a snap negative judgment

Hey, i am a teenager, i can't simply live like if i don't care about weirdness because other schoolmates/teens/people can make my live much harder, even if i don't care at all about them.
I know that they do that judgments but i prefer not to know. I have lots of fears because almost every time i have a social interaction i try to predict what is in the other person mind. As that is not exact (not minding that i have asperger's), the previsions are mostly wrong, but when they are negative previsions i can still gain fears from what i think that the person perceived, because i may never know if it was true.

Hi claudiop!

Thanks for the detailed post! First off, before even approaching this girl with anything whatsoever, try to be crystal clear about what the parameters of your friendship are. Is she merely a casual acquaintance? Do you guys call each other & chat? Do you go places together as friends or in a group of friends? How much time have you actually spent together?

Yes, we're not even "friends"(real meaning of the word). We don't talk at all now, but we only said something like "Hi" to each other, not much more. We(her, her "close-friend" and some other friends) went once to a specie of "popular festivals", but i said lots and lots of stupid things (as if i was drunk...), so we never went out again.
Time spent? About 20/30 hours, but it was mostly in the train in the whole year, and most of the time was spent without a single word.

If the answers to the above indicate a very causal acquaintance, you need to at least become friends before you begin telling her about having feelings for her. At this point, if you hardly know her, your feelings are more for the 'fantasy persona' you've created around this person. It is critical that you separate the fantasy woman & all you've imagined her to be, from the real person. The REAL person is someone you don't know much about right now: she may be nothing like what you've imagined & she deserves to be seen for who she is; not something you've imagined & layered over her.

Yes, you're right, but how can i distinguish? They are both the same person, and i have no way to tell if she doesn't has features present in the fake persona. In fact, she can be similar to the fake, the imaginary persona can be just enhanced to benefit my personality.
To become worst, when i am with her, i react as if i were with what i know from her(real or not), and that takes to a state of panic, which makes shyness be seen as weirdness.

If others are accusing you of stalking her, I'd suggest you give it some thought. ARE you following her? Are you casually showing up in places where you know she'll be? Are you staring at her or watching her? If this is the case, I still wouldn't put you into the deranged stalker category. Stalkers are people who are a danger to others. They are malicious & predatory. You don't seem to be that sort: you sound more like a young person with a harmless crush BUT not on a real person: but on the imaginary one.

Yes, no, maybe...
I don't force things that way, i try to predict where is the more probable place to find her, based in her school schedule, the day of the week, the train which arrives at the time of the bus, and some more details i observe(i don't need to follow anyone, i can see, it's not my fault to see and memorize such weird things, is it?). As i said, in the beginning i just wanted company so i started looking for opportunities to approach, and nothing else.
Yes, i stare sometimes at her, but mostly not to see what she does, but how she does.(Add more detail to what i know from her).
I also noticed, that i don't see what i don't want to see (I don't know if the expression also exists in English, but it means that i can view something, but somehow "refuse" to memorize if i don't think that i should memorize that feature because it makes something wrong in the persona(i don't really know how to explain)), is possible that this is the cause of a differentiation between the real and the fictitious persona?
Well, i can't really imagine how could i be a danger so you should be right, but "normal" people don't like to be observed/followed/etc (in fact i also don't like when someone observes what i do, but this is mostly because people look as me looking for flaws to make fun of me).

Please do not talk with her about your personal feelings yet & by all means DO NOT mention the imaginary friend persona you've been fantasizing about. The likely response is for her to be creeped-out & want nothing to do with you. Remember: only YOU know you're not some dangerous nut. SHE doesn't know that. Try to not feed the fantasy. You need to let the imaginary version of her go & stop feeding the fantasy if you ever want to get to know her as an actual real flesh & blood person with her own very real personality.

She is creped-out right now and still knows nothing, it can't get worst(can it?). At least there is some chance (i don't know if small or big, i think it depends in the way which i explain (so it is a small chance)) that she understands, and a even smaller chance that she tries to help. I don't have a single idea, nor a clue of what else can i do. I can't ignore forever.
How can i stop feeding the fantasy if i live with it more that i live with the reality? I just need to dream, have some depression, or even "sleep-awake" to somehow reach her name.

Something else to add (It's a bit off-topic):
Yesterday (due to my 10 year old sister), i started to talk with text messages to a girl which i newer saw, nor even knew she existed.
She was asking for someone to talk and i accepted(as if i could refuse someone). She is a bit(two years) younger, but i still wanted to talk, so i tried to do something:
I already was 14 old, and i already know how do pre-teens in my residence area behave, so i tried myself to behave like if i were someone of her school.
Well, it seems that pretending to behave like a normal person works pretty fine when talking to someone who can't see/hear.
(This should be different from person to person but Probably what made this situation work so well? The fact that i don't know who is the person? The impossibility of making a physical contact? Because i already know how to deal with that specific (pre)teens?
Which of this factors worsens the conversation with someone else(in front of me): The physical presence? The pressure to answer in time? The lack of knowledge about how the person behaves? Being of my own age or even much older?
I am just curious because normally people get bored of talking to me for more that five minutes, and this girl was flooding my phone with text messages in the last 24 hours even without knowing who i am.

Sorry if what i say makes not a lot of sense, but my mind is kind of stupid today (like if it wasn't in the rest of the year).
Thanks for your support

 

[claudiop]

BUMP.
May someone help please?
I feel that sometimes i am getting kind of paranoid with this, and under certain conditions that leads to a sort of depression.
Even if the "talk to her" solution was a good idea, i realized that if i should do it, i couldn't, because in the last weeks i also was also looking for a school mate enough reliable to tell about the syndrome(as a secret) in an attempt that he may act as a "moderator"(just in the sense of being enought influential) to everyone else comments. Since then, i've choosen the person, and we've been many times alone(street, way to train, school, etc...), but i have always a feeling of unsure, and i can find a thousand reasons to tell in a better moment(too many people around, short time, bad place, unconfortable, while walking, someone may appear, etc...), and that is before its said a word, then cames the axiety and everything else.

Back to her: Since then i started to ignore and supress reactions (acting like if i never saw her), and we never never talked again, she also seems to being intrepreting that attitude as contempt, so everything is taking the wrong path. If someday i need to talk to her, it is probable that she simply ignores.

---off-topic---
I've also been occasionally reading about this sort of things and i found another syndrome that also seems partially to match, but i don't really know if it can coexist with Aperger, so here is one simple question:
Is there anything that impedes a coexistence of Burnout Syndrome and Asperger's Syndrome?
I am questioning this because from a certain viewpoint the symptoms match, for example when i have chance to isolate myself and enough time to distract myself from most problems, the first thing that i try to do is to study(normally technical stuff, that no undergraduate should know). In fact, sometimes i find it to be "relaxing" as it is a way to distract myself from everything, but i am also constantly demanding myself to be more and more productive, and that pressure makes me really tired, and even sometimes upset when i am unable to preform a task in a certain period. Is it possible to be Burnout Syndrome?

 

[Soup]

WEll, of course, we can't diagnose you based on a few posts; It takes a formal assessment to be 100% certain & even there, therapists sometimes get it wrong.

As for losing the ability to distinguish between what is a trait of the 'real' girl & what is a part of the fantasy, I can see how, since you're up to your teeth in your imaginings, it may be hard for you. If she is creeped-out, you need to leave her alone. I know this isn't the response you likely hoped for, but a creeped-out young girl whom you hardly know is not someone you can approach with your personal; feelings, fantasies or imaginings.

This kind of exercise may help you separate reality from fiction by helping you externalize & sort out the traits that really are there from those you've imagined. Take a sheet of paper (or make a word document) & make 2 columns. label the 1st one at the top with the word TRAITS. Label the other one EVIDENCE. On the left, list a trait you've attributed to her such as 'loves spending time with animals'. Then, in the right hand side, write down the objective evidence you have to support the attribution. If the trait on the left can only be supported by a fantasy you had or something you've imagined then you know you've made it up. If, for example, you can write on the right that she volunteers at the local humane society or that she has many pets, your trait is reality based.

Personally, I could see this spiralling downhill into an obsession that may cause you to embarrass yourself at best or wind up in some trouble at worst. You say that she seems to e taking your indifference as contempt. Now, unless you heard her SAY so or she sent you an email or txt to that effect, I fail to see how you could possibly know that. Please try to stop fantasizing about her: she is a real person whom you barely know & all this stuff you're making up has nothing to do with her as a person & her needs & desires but is all about shaping her into someone ideally suited to fulfilling yours.

 

[Mike_GX1]

@Claudiop:
Interesting reading (if not a lot to take in). I suppose in some respects I can identify with what you're feeling because I too had a lot of difficulties actually making friends when I was at school preferring to be on my own instead of facing the rush of anxiety I always felt when trying to socialise.

I suppose everyone paints pictures of others which are either true or false and when we get to know those people our pictures are probably more likely to be false. This is where communication comes in. We are all social creatures and when such social strands are stressed it causes tension in most people because they don't understand the silence/lack of communications. It is the uncertainty which puts everyone on edge and when everyone is on edge it's like receiving the cold shoulder and such feelings leave our bodies locking into survival mode as our hearts beat faster and faster preparing us for fight or flight because a threat to our social needs is like a threat to our survival. Everyone in the room who doesn't understand the silence will be having similar feelings and when everyone is in that state it only works to propel those feelings of anxiousness further forcing people to start making 'alternative arrangements' afterwhich the group rapidly disperses.

Open yourself up more and let that natural communication flow and help make the whole group relax - take a risk and speak to people and you never know they may reciprocate and the start of very good friendships may be born. When I finally did do this (I pushed myself into a group of people one break time with the purpose of getting to know them) it did wonders for my social confidence. But *you* have to make that first step; take that risk. And if they don't want to reciprocate then there are other people. Don't be too hurt if your they don't reciprocate straight away as it may take time and many more break times to achieve your target of making friends.

 

[claudiop]

As for losing the ability to distinguish between what is a trait of the 'real' girl & what is a part of the fantasy, I can see how, since you're up to your teeth in your imaginings, it may be hard for you. If she is creeped-out, you need to leave her alone. I know this isn't the response you likely hoped for, but a creeped-out young girl whom you hardly know is not someone you can approach with your personal; feelings, fantasies or imaginings.

Thats exactly what i have been trying to do, the problem is exactly when come across each other(it is unavoidable because we spend the whole day in the same place).

This kind of exercise may help you separate reality from fiction by helping you externalize & sort out the traits that really are there from those you've imagined. Take a sheet of paper (or make a word document) & make 2 columns. label the 1st one at the top with the word TRAITS. Label the other one EVIDENCE. On the left, list a trait you've attributed to her such as 'loves spending time with animals'. Then, in the right hand side, write down the objective evidence you have to support the attribution. If the trait on the left can only be supported by a fantasy you had or something you've imagined then you know you've made it up. If, for example, you can write on the right that she volunteers at the local humane society or that she has many pets, your trait is reality based.

In the last 30 minutes, i've been thinking in how can such idea have flaws (just as a way to don't spend another dozen of hours "walking in circles") and thinking in how should i do it, but it seems after all a good idea.
The only flaw is the size that the list will take, and the effort to keep thinking in things that really happened.
I'll try to do it in a notebook while in the train (because watching people actions makes me remember things(but alone it's a lot harder to remember memories... bizarre)).

Personally, I could see this spiralling downhill into an obsession that may cause you to embarrass yourself at best or wind up in some trouble at worst. You say that she seems to e taking your indifference as contempt. Now, unless you heard her SAY so or she sent you an email or txt to that effect, I fail to see how you could possibly know that. Please try to stop fantasizing about her: she is a real person whom you barely know & all this stuff you're making up has nothing to do with her as a person & her needs & desires but is all about shaping her into someone ideally suited to fulfilling yours.

(I am not completely sure if "contempt" means exactly the same thing in English, that means in Portuguese in the same context, but according to the dictionary it should)
Lets imagine that you meet someone. Nothing special after all, just a guy that you now "know".
Strangely you see that guy a lot more that it should be normal, without a valid reason and he acts strangely. So, now you're annoyed because you don't understand anything, and/or you may even think that he wants something/is stalking/(etc...).
After some days, you indirectly start to demonstrate your unconcern, and people start to talk about it.
Now he is ignoring you and also some people that are close friends to you like if you are invisible and even avoids you, but people still talk about it.
What will you think about it? Are you happy? Will you have interest in knowing what's happening? No, you just want to get rid of that guy -> contempt.
Yep, more imaginary feeling that i am not really sure because i don't understand a damn feeling expressed from anyone... :banghead:

I suppose everyone paints pictures of others which are either true or false and when we get to know those people our pictures are probably more likely to be false. This is where communication comes in. We are all social creatures and when such social strands are stressed it causes tension in most people because they don't understand the silence/lack of communications. It is the uncertainty which puts everyone on edge and when everyone is on edge it's like receiving the cold shoulder and such feelings leave our bodies locking into survival mode as our hearts beat faster and faster preparing us for fight or flight because a threat to our social needs is like a threat to our survival. Everyone in the room who doesn't understand the silence will be having similar feelings and when everyone is in that state it only works to propel those feelings of anxiousness further forcing people to start making 'alternative arrangements' afterwhich the group rapidly disperses.

Open yourself up more and let that natural communication flow and help make the whole group relax - take a risk and speak to people and you never know they may reciprocate and the start of very good friendships may be born. When I finally did do this (I pushed myself into a group of people one break time with the purpose of getting to know them) it did wonders for my social confidence. But *you* have to make that first step; take that risk. And if they don't want to reciprocate then there are other people. Don't be too hurt if your they don't reciprocate straight away as it may take time and many more break times to achieve your target of making friends.

You're right, (i think...) but i don't know how to do it. I can't keep a simple conversation, i hate to start phrases with "I", and i am too shy to start them with "you"... obviously i run out of subject quickly.
All of the friends that i have/had started with a obligation of being with me(like school) that makes the shyness disappear after some time, or with a "how do you do that?", which leads to more conversation.

I've already read some topics here in this forum about friendships and such things, and i am kind of shocked, because i already 'saw' people who can live completely alone, without real friends.
If i am more than a few days without spending time with a friend, i simply have a feel of weakness in the body and can't do anything useful. Which is a good reason to be always tense because i cant be productive at all, which is a good start to a vicious cycle.

Im sorry, i know that i complicate everything, but if it was easy i was now asking for help.
Thank you both for your support.