Has anyone been fired from a job because they follow the rules?

[Kevin L.]

I would like to know:

1) Has anyone been fired because they followed the rules?

2) If so, how does a person escape the double-bind and find a balance between following the rules, yet disregarding them enough to keep a job?

I can't go to my employer and ask: " How many of your rules do you want me to break so I can keep my job?"

 

[Judge]

Perhaps it might be beneficial to explain what rules you followed that you believe got you into trouble with your employer.

Though I'm reminded of something an insurance underwriting manager once told me. That "to break the rules I had to absolutely know them first". It was his way of impressing upon me that there always exists a "grey area" for people to exercise discretion rather than rigidly adhere to rules and regulations which can sometimes precipitate really good outcomes- or really bad ones. Which really reflects the need for optimal executive functioning with certain jobs. I can only say on occasion to go on your instincts rather than follow rules verbatim.

Ultimately I suppose "the devil is in the details", depending on what your job actually is relative to whatever rules are in place. With insurance underwriting, I eventually learned that rigid and absolute interpretation of rules and guidelines was frowned upon by management. That we were expected to use discretion to a degree, much like any policeman. Not an easy thought process.

 

[Kevin L.]

Thank you for answering.

I went into great detail in another post on a specific situation, but here is another...and it's important because it involved violence:

I worked as a pharmacy technician in a drug store while paying my way through school.

An elderly customer comes in to pick up his diabetes medicine, and is frantic because he has to pee. I'm not a doctor, but I know that diabetes can cause someone to have to urinate fequently.

I say "no problem," and let him use the restroom.

I get pulled aside by the manager, and threatened with a write-up because I broke store policy because customers are not allowed to use the restroom under any circumstances. I'm sure that many of you have been shopping, and refused access to a restroom in a store when you needed to go.

A week goes by, and a pregnant woman comes to the pharmacy to pick up her prenatal vitamins, and begs to use the restroom because her pregnancy makes here need to pee more frequently.

I tell her "no", even though I want to let her use the restroom, and she leaves sobbing.

When I get out of work, her husband is waiting and punches me in the face because I hurt his pregnant wife...and I hit back.

The police get involved, and everyone agrees that the whole thing was my fault...evidentally, there is a difference between and elderly man who has to pee from his diabetes and a woman who has to pee because of her pregnancy (both are customers), and I don't see what the difference is.

I'm supposed to distinguish between these two situations, and I don't know how.

So...I lose another job because I can't see what "the whole rest of the world can see".

When I ask what the difference is, I'm "playing a game", and "if I tell you what the difference is, I'm catering to your deliberate stupidity, and I refuse to do this. You deserved to be beaten up, and you brought it on yourself..." and so on.

I'm not lazy or stupid.

If I could see the difference, I think I would be home free.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

You're surrounded by idiots is the difference.

Your boss made a decision and you pointing out how inconsistent it is only ever makes people double down on their previous decision.

You got assaulted, the police tend to opt for an easy life, justice has nothing to do with it.
You got screwed over.

 

[Kevin L.]

You're surrounded by idiots is the difference.

Your boss made a decision and you pointing out how inconsistent it is only ever makes people double down on their previous decision.

You got assaulted, the police tend to opt for an easy life, justice has nothing to do with it.
You got screwed over.

Thank you, and I appreciate it...but if this happened once or twice, I could blame everyone else.

If it happens all the time...then it must be me.

 

[Kevin L.]

What is the difference between an elderly customer who has to pee because of his diabetes, and a woman customer who has to pee because of her pregnancy?

I swear that I'm not being passive-aggressive.

 

[Crossbreed]

If you would have let her go pee, that would have probably got you fired, too. I have seen comparable dilemmas in my own work history. I don't think it is that one action is more preferred to another. I think it is that someone in management has subjectively decided that they didn't like you and was just looking for an excuse to can you (that they wouldn't have to defend in court). I've seen management bend over backwards for irresponsible employees that they have taken a liking to. A seller's market can give us that kind of clout, too.

If you were doing an adequate job, I believe that it is [misautism?] that is following you around. That is an unfortunate artifact of this economy.

 

[Kevin L.]

Thank you.

 

[WereBear]

We are like Cassandra, who saw the future, and no one believed her

Basically, "the rules" are whatever the boss says they are. And yes, we are supposed to read their minds. Somehow. And know that the difference is the pregnant woman had a husband to punch you with.

Because the truth is there are no rules. NTs know and accept this far better than we can, or will.

 

[Crossbreed]

We are like Cassandra, who saw the future, and no one believed her

...or the prophet, Jeremiah.

 

[WereBear]

Here is a great example:

The Saga of Vinegar Boy

It is far more important for us to know the law than it is to know the rules.

 

[Kevin L.]

If there are no rules, how am I supposed to understand what is expected of me so I can keep a job?

Thank you for answering.

 

[clg114]

If there are no rules, how am I supposed to understand what is expected of me so I can keep a job?

Thank you for answering.

Such is a Aspies life in a NT world. I did it by working by myself for 99% of my working career, but I got lucky.

 

[Judge]

For your own edification Kevin, though I think it's important for you to understand that this was never about "the rules". You created no serious liability exposure in telling anyone that it's against company policy to use a restroom. I've had to do the same when I worked for a very small retail business. It was absolute policy- no customers could use the restroom. Period! And yes- it was an awkward thing to have to enforce at times. Though businesses have a fundamental right to protect themselves from shoplifting. Especially if there's only one employee on the premises.

However I'm assuming you were still on the pharmacy's property when the woman's husband assaulted you. Correct? That when you chose to defend yourself and fight on the company premises as a result of a work decision, you put your employer's liability at risk.

The very first and most critical defense for such an exposure obligated your employer to terminate your employment if legally advisable. To possibly avert or mitigate underwriting responses such as non-renewing your employer's business insurance. All issues of a legal nature for which your employer isn't likely to share with you to any great extent beyond what his legal counsel and insurers instruct him.

It sucks, and it's not fair under the circumstances but that's how it works. And yes, as a commercial underwriter on occasion I've had to non-renew a business owner's insurance over the conduct of their employees. Whether employees followed company rules or not was irrelevant from my perspective and probably the law as well.

Yet in the heat of the moment, with an unexpected physical altercation I would have likely swung back at the guy too. And like you I would have been fired as well. It was a no-win scenario. I'm sorry you went through such a situation. A response which I would address to an NT as well as any fellow Aspie.

 

[Kevin L.]

Thank you very much, but I didn't clarify.

I didn't hit back out of vengence...I was defending myself in an ongoing attack that I couldn't run away from.

You did make things clearer, though.

How do I avoid such things in the future?

 

[midlife aspie]

Uhm, isn't assault a criminal offense? I would have made every attempt to press such charges. That S.O.B. had NO RIGHT to act as he did, regardless of how he felt. Perhaps the best course would have been to let him have his way without a response from you, and then lawyer up and THROW THE BOOK at your former employer and your attacker. It also seems that the police in your town need a shake up if they think that violence on the part of the husband was called for.
Of course, you could have referred the woman to your supervisor and let him/her make such a call.....

 

[janie]

optimal executive functioning:

a primary glitch of my operating system
constant user errors
compel vigilant, frequent updates

optimal executive functioning:

my epic quest
my journey

 

[Judge]

Uhm, isn't assault a criminal offense? I would have made every attempt to press such charges. That S.O.B. had NO RIGHT to act as he did, regardless of how he felt. Perhaps the best course would have been to let him have his way without a response from you, and then lawyer up and THROW THE BOOK at your former employer and your attacker.

It's only assault and battery if the police pursue it or a district attorney is willing to file charges under such circumstances. I could see how certain police depts. would apply their discretion to just let it slip for both parties. Especially without witnesses or actual evidence of physical injuries. It happens, though ultimately depending on the jurisdiction and policy.

The only real loss incurred here was the OP's job. But whether or not he could pursue it as a legitimate wrongful termination suit is for an attorney to decide.

 

[midlife aspie]

It's only assault and battery if the police pursue it or a district attorney is willing to file charges under such circumstances. I could see how certain police depts. would apply their discretion to just let it slip for both parties. Especially without witnesses or actual evidence of physical injuries. It happens, though ultimately depending on the jurisdiction and policy.

The only real loss incurred here was the OP's job. But whether or not he could pursue it as a legitimate wrongful termination suit is for an attorney to decide.

Even the responses to the OP's post seem to illustrate the rubbery nature of rules. That nature being rules are only as good as their enforcement.

 

[Judge]

Thank you very much, but I didn't clarify.

I didn't hit back out of vengeance...I was defending myself in an ongoing attack that I couldn't run away from.

Well, from a criminal perspective it's academic that you felt you had no choice but to defend yourself as no charges were filed against either of you. You could raise the point in a civil suit of wrongful termination, but that's an argument for your attorney if they took such a case.

How do I avoid such things in the future?

In the most literal sense under the circumstances you provided, I don't think there's much you can do. Ultimately you were in the wrong place at the wrong time over a common issue that went bad in a way most would consider to be unforeseen. Who could have predicted an angry spouse would show up and attack you over policies you're only responsible for enforcing, but did not create ?

If anything, never get physical on company property- period. Easier said than done when someone is attacking you.