Hello - seeking job advice

[stratozyck]

I don't really like labels but at age 33 I can look back at my life and say that the construct of "being on the spectrum" would explain an awful lot. For a few years I was the smelly kid in high school, I never make eye contact or, knowing that's what others do, I stare intensely into eyes.

I chose to study economics because I found people interesting and wanted deeply to understand people better. Over the years I have developed an extensive rule set but still the general trend of my relationships is eventual deterioration and mutual frustration.

Knowing what I was like, I intentionally picked a field where I can be locked away by a computer doing statistical analysis (if it matters, I have a PhD in Economics). I recently changed jobs within the same company. The previous role was more socially oriented and it tired me out.

Now I am in a new role with a different set of managers. Suffice to say, things are not working out. Its not the work - its the communication. They have in person meetings and give instructions verbally. I come in with a memo and try to get them to commit to firm takeaways and instructions but their style is very opposite.

Quite frankly, I am getting extremely frustrated. Last week I told my manager I need written instructions and he seemed annoyed by this. When they verbally tell me to do things, I really think I did what they said and usually end up doing a lot more that they don't ask for as well. The result is my project is 2-3x more code than it needs to be at this point because I went off on tangents in my work. They get frustrated because they think they told me what to do, and I think I did what they asked, and they aren't telling me where I fell short in writing. Most of the time when they are disappointed they do non verbal cues that I do not pick up on but they say things that taken literally do not cause me to think I am not doing what I was asked.

So, last week it finally came to a head. I met with my manager and literally demanded weekly written goals, as detailed as possible (half page and not a sentence). Finally, he did and I was able to get what they wanted very quickly because by and large I had it already done - I just did not know that is what they wanted!

I am thinking of telling my manager that probably operating under the assumption that I am on the spectrum is useful. But, I don't want people to think I am "disabled." I really think in an alternate reality they would be the weird ones.

Any thoughts?

 

[midlife aspie]

I think what you have done is largely enough. I would express my appreciation for the clear written expectations and request that such should continue. A possible advantage of written objectives could be in the area of dispute resolution. I think your management will ultimately appreciate the increased efficiency and speed with which your assignments are completed if such a request is honored.

 

[Katleya]

It's great that you were able to obtain the written instructions eventually. Thank your manager profusely, and make sure to express how much your work will benefit from that (conflict resolution purposes as midlife aspie said, but also increased efficiency, etc.)

Regarding telling your manager, I can only speak from my current experience. While it seems, to us, like a perfectly logical idea to give a reason for some of our challenges, hoping that they will be taken into account and acted upon in a logical, productivity-oriented manner, many people will just view that as excuses. I started a thread on this last week that you may find useful, I had no idea our fellow Aspies here would have so much insightful info and tips to provide. Look up "Explanations perceived as excuses".
But I digress. I took a new job at a company where I had worked for a year so far. It was clearly understood that I had little experience in that field, so I would need solid training. No mention of Asperger's at this point on my end, because I honestly thought I was up to the challenge. My boss is kind of like yours: verbal instructions, very little details and, worst of all, no timelines. So here I am with 10 different tasks to complete during the week, or maybe the month, I don't know, and no indication of priority order. Boss is reluctant to write down things and help me A. Assess the time needed for tasks, so that I can tell when I'm within the time limit or clearly running behind, and B. Sort them by order of priority. Everything takes about the same amount of time, and seems to be of equal importance. I chose to tackle the tasks that called for other people to work on down the road, in order to not impact them negatively, and keep the solitary tasks for after.
Fast forward to 6 months later: so far, they're very happy with my work. I'm actually surprised at how happy they are exactly, based on how hard it is for me to maintain output, and I felt like an impostor or something (I was perfectly capable of the tasks, but the struggling aspect to it was blinding me). But no, good job, keep going, etc. I suppose I just never picked up on the expression of satisfaction over those 6 months, hence my total surprise. So... how do you ruin a seemingly good situation?
I thanked them for their appreciation, asked what I could improve on and how, and because I knew I wouldn't be able to cope with the difficulties at work unless some adjustments were made, I felt this was the perfect time to disclose my Asperger's. At the time, my intention was to ensure I didn't end up completely burnt out from the tension and, most importantly, to be able to carry on with the good results. Win-win situation, right? Think again.
My boss knew nothing about Asperger's, so I offered to provide him with a summary of our traits, weaknesses and strength. I threw in a little guide I found on how to handle us at work for best results. Feedback a week later: that was very interesting. You really don't look autistic, but as long as you don't come with a machine gun and kill us all, it's alright. Umm... I'm 100% sure that none of the documents I provided said we had mass-murder tendencies, so that's an interesting takeaway. His boss came to me and said: I know all about Asperger's, and I don't care, you just do your job and don't expect extra accomodations or you get out.
So in less than a week, because I tried to make things even better out of loyalty for a company that saw me as a good element, I became, in their eyes, someone who refused to work. Any training I didn't receive because my boss didn't tell me I could take it? My fault. Other people not doing their work in other departments? My fault. Work not completed on time? My fault for sometimes "disappearing" (that would have been me going to hide in the bathroom to cry, and I'd stay 2 or 3 hours after I was scheduled, everyday, to stick to the deadline). Colleagues started harrassing me big time. Calling me abnormal, scheming and all kinds of nasty things, preferably between them right in front of me. And so on. Eventually, I was reproached with actively refusing to multitask, being unable to adapt to change, and this is where it's funny: they took every single thing that was listed in terms of Aspie challenges at work, and blamed me and my motivation for failing at them. Even those were I did pretty well, but they followed a checklist. So I went from "speaks 7 languages, can translate anything, amazing command of language x, y and z" to a written assessment of "can't redact a text, lacks ability to process language".
So... I had good intentions, really. But based on the 6 subsequent months, I just brought work doom upon myself by trying to do better.

In a nutshell: think carefully before you disclose your ASD to your boss, you never know what will come out of that box. Especially in the event you're not too good at reading expressions and/or telling fakeness from good intents on your boss's end.

 

[xudo]

Welcome

 

[EstimatedProphet]

In a nutshell: think carefully before you disclose your ASD to your boss, you never know what will come out of that box. Especially in the event you're not too good at reading expressions and/or telling fakeness from good intents on your boss's end.

Good advice K. I applied for a job this very day and checked "no disability" on the disclosure forms.

Post-diagnosis I quickly learned that it's best to keep the diagnosis to one's self. If you asked me about that issue then, I would've been outraged at the thought of keeping it a secret. Then I told a few people and realized I was wrong. I may write on that experience at some point in the future.

I've found it best to disclose the symptoms but not the condition (as you did earlier in the job). Rather than "I have Asperger's" saying "I really need a quiet place to work and to limit the number of meetings I have every day in both time and number if you want me to perform at maximum productivity" and making it an exercise in cooperative planning with colleagues to work around things.

NTs understand strengths and weaknesses and will work with you. They do NOT understand developmental neurological disabilities!

As soon as you disclose a disability [at least in the US] you are, for all practical purposes, treated by employers as a lawsuit waiting to happen.

The so-called "non-discrimination" laws accomplish no such thing -- in 99% of cases the only thing that happens is lawyers get richer.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Good luck @stratozyck !

 

[Katleya]

Good advice K. I applied for a job this very day and checked "no disability" on the disclosure forms.

Post-diagnosis I quickly learned that it's best to keep the diagnosis to one's self. If you asked me about that issue then, I would've been outraged at the thought of keeping it a secret. Then I told a few people and realized I was wrong. I may write on that experience at some point in the future.

I've found it best to disclose the symptoms but not the condition (as you did earlier in the job). Rather than "I have Asperger's" saying "I really need a quiet place to work and to limit the number of meetings I have every day in both time and number if you want me to perform at maximum productivity" and making it an exercise in cooperative planning with colleagues to work around things.

NTs understand strengths and weaknesses and will work with you. They do NOT understand developmental neurological disabilities!

As soon as you disclose a disability [at least in the US] you are, for all practical purposes, treated by employers as a lawsuit waiting to happen.

The so-called "non-discrimination" laws accomplish no such thing -- in 99% of cases the only thing that happens is lawyers get richer.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Good luck @stratozyck !

Thank you and good luck with the job application!
I think it's nice that you can give a US-based perspective, which I suspect will be helpful to many members.
It's also very valuable to have feedback from you (and hopefully others as well, soon) who have had enough time since their official diagnosis for trial and error in the workplace. I know for a fact that I'll be using some of what you advise in my next job search...

 

[stratozyck]

I think what you have done is largely enough. I would express my appreciation for the clear written expectations and request that such should continue. A possible advantage of written objectives could be in the area of dispute resolution. I think your management will ultimately appreciate the increased efficiency and speed with which your assignments are completed if such a request is honored.

Thank you I did just that and its been two weeks. My managers are the types that love meetings and verbal communication. I wanted weekly 1 on 1s as well (which is a requirement by the way) but I am settling for a weekly written e mail. So far, so good I guess.

 

[stratozyck]

It's great that you were able to obtain the written instructions eventually. Thank your manager profusely, and make sure to express how much your work will benefit from that (conflict resolution purposes as midlife aspie said, but also increased efficiency, etc.)

Regarding telling your manager, I can only speak from my current experience...

Yikes. Yeah I can totally get that most people would see it as an excuse. I am lucky in that I am a very aspie friendly field. I make credit score models so its very data oriented and I Excel at it (that's a joke, we use SAS actually).

My ongoing/recurring issue is in my field, the ratio of foreign born to non foreign born is pretty high. On my floor, I literally cannot think of one person that was not born outside the country. Chinese born accounts for about 75%, Indian another 10% or so.

So, what I keep getting is people assume "native English speaker = great communications." I started and quit one job last year after 3 mos because against what they said in the interviews, they put me on a very non technical task. It was basically "hey he's American and must be great at communication, so lets put him on this task that needs to be done." Yes, that task needed to be done. No, I found it insulting that they took me off a statistical role so quickly (it was an "emergency" but I was upset they sprung this on me). Had I stayed in that role, my SAS skills would have degraded and it could have seriously changed the course of my career for the worse.

What gets me is I am in the top 20% of my field, I know this. I am not saying I am the best, but I seriously find the "international = quant minded American = communications dynamo" assumption highly offensive.

 

[stratozyck]

Oh, I want to add that I think people tend to figure out something is up pretty quickly. I gave up on the eye contact thing attempts long ago. I could never figure out how to do it. People also figure out pretty quickly that I am only interested in talking/listening about hobbies. I'm willing to listen if someone is into gardening, but I get annoyed if they do not know the species of each plant in their garden. I like listening to people that are into something intensely. If not, I tend to go on and on about whatever I am into that year.

I've also noticed that everyone else tends to assume I am depressed. I went to the doc for the first time in a few years because I am having some digestive issues (its minor Crohns or serious IRB but that knowledge came later). Despite talking about digestive stuff, the dang doctor kept going back to questions on depression and if I was suicidal. I wanted to storm out of the room and I should have. I was ticked when I got the bill and there was a charge for "depression screening."

I get it, to everyone else if you are not walking around with a smile and look in your mind then you must be looking for the next tree to hang yourself on. That is a continual recurrence and it annoys me to no end.

My life is pretty good and my only complaint is I have to deal with these people at work to pay my mortgage. I have a wife, daughter, and about 5 fish tanks that make me happy.

 

[EstimatedProphet]

I make credit score models so its very data oriented and I Excel at it (that's a joke, we use SAS actually).