• Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Hive mentality

Major Tom

Searching for ground control...
V.I.P Member
Recently, I've been watching a lot of true crime documentaries, usually dealing with people who have had coereced confessions, they are and usually people of lower IQ or people with social difficulties. I can see it clearly when watching such confessions. Yet it seems to me the average person, is unable to register that a confession could be coereced. (Coereced means basically that the law enforcement officials told the suspects what to say, and for some reason(probably IQ/socially related) they go along with it and confess.)

Anyways I wonder if all or any of you would be tricked or trapped like that in a similar circumstance? Also, do you share the hive mentality that someone who has confessed to a crime is ALWAYS guilty? Do you trust and believe in law enforcement officials and the DA would never try to cover their tracks or pin a crime on someone because they are under so much public pressure to get a conviction? Do you believe that all DA's and law enforcement officials are honest people, with the communities best interests at heart? Or do you believe like me that law enforcement and the DA's are fallible and in some cases corrupt?

They estimate that 4% of the USA's prison population is innocent, this equates to around 90,000 people. I consider this a generous estimate, I wouldn't be surprised that at least 10% of our prison population are innocent, due to crooked police, DA's and other conspiratorial factors.

This is one of my special interests and I have no real facts to back me up, only from documentaries and personal experiences.
What do you all think?

Additional advice: always ask for a lawyer in a police interrogation and never agree to answer questions without one present. Innocent or guilty. Police will and can lie without remorse to try and get you to say what they want to hear.
 
Last edited:
This hive mentality seems to enter all aspects of life, not only the judicial system. It scares the crap out of me.
 
I could imagine myself confessing to something I didn't do if it involved some form of torture.

And by torture, it could probably just be like, "Oh, you gotta sit in this really hard chair for a really really long time," and I'm sensitive enough that just the threat would get me to admit to genocide or whatever it is they think an obviously innocent little duck did.

But any question like, "Do you think police officers would do this?" or someone else do that, I translate it to, "Do you think humans would do this?" because their job choice isn't going to change human nature. For all realistic examples, people would do "that". Whatever it is.

And people are prone to believe those arrested, those who confessed, those on trial, and those in prison are guilty because then there's nothing to conflict with their world-view, conscious or subconscious, that the world is basically good, justice is generally served, people are basically decent, etc. and their peaceful bubble is never disturbed by any uncomfortable truths, uncertainties, or complex thought of any kind.

Convenience, comfort, and safety are some of the most dangerous desires.
 
Additional advice: always ask for a lawyer in a police interrogation and never agree to answer questions without one present. Innocent or guilty. Police will and can lie without remorse to try and get you to say what they want to hear.
Best advice.
I would say nothing if interrogated without a lawyer and maybe not even then.

No, I don't trust them. There are bad apples in every tree.
And herd mentality seems to be easily invoked.
 
Best advice.
I would say nothing if interrogated without a lawyer and maybe not even then.

No, I don't trust them. There are bad apples in every tree.
And herd mentality seems to be easily invoked.
Usually when you say "I want my lawyer present" that will end the interrogation. This whole idea that if you ask for one indicates guilt is hooey, it's just being smart and self aware.
 
I know enough from hanging out with young anarchists that the police are not our "friends."

In the USA at least, by law they are allowed to l i e to us during an interrogation in order to get us to confess. "You did it." "We know you did it." "We have an eye witness." "We found your DNA." "Confess and I will always respect you." "We can ask the judge for leniency." "Don't you want to get this off of your chest?"

Add to that our atypical facial expressions and yeah, we as autistics are at risk for this kind of manipulation.

I practice saying the word "Lawyer" and hope that I will never be caught up in this sort of situation. Yes, innocents have spent time on death row for crimes that they did not commit. Horrifying enough to wind up in prison for what you did not do. Even worse to wind up dead.

I shudder.
 
I know enough from hanging out with young anarchists that the police are not our "friends."

In the USA at least, by law they are allowed to l i e to us during an interrogation in order to get us to confess. "You did it." "We know you did it." "We have an eye witness." "We found your DNA." "Confess and I will always respect you." "We can ask the judge for leniency." "Don't you want to get this off of your chest?"

Add to that our atypical facial expressions and yeah, we as autistics are at risk for this kind of manipulation.

I practice saying the word "Lawyer" and hope that I will never be caught up in this sort of situation. Yes, innocents have spent time on death row for crimes that they did not commit. Horrifying enough to wind up in prison for what you did not do. Even worse to wind up dead.

I shudder.
Agreed, lawyer would be the first and only thing I said. I don't trust that anyone is there to protect me other than myself or someone getting and exorbitant amount of money to do it.
 
Anyways I wonder if all or any of you would be tricked or trapped like that in a similar circumstance?
I've never been in that kind of situation, so who knows how I would react? Generally I tend to be defiant, detest injustice and react badly to being falsely accused of something, so I like to think that I would never confess to a crime I didn't commit, but it's one thing to say this from the comfort of my armchair, and quite another to know how one might react under the pressure of the moment.
Also, do you share the hive mentality that someone who has confessed to a crime is ALWAYS guilty?
Most certainly not. There are a number of circumstances and reasons for a false confession, beyond torture - that a person may not fully understand the nature of the accusation, they are confused, mentally unstable/not able to think straight, they misundertand the wording, that they are tricked, that they are told that they will receive a lighter sentence if they confess, as opposed to not confessing and being found guilty nonetheless, they somehow manage to convince themselves that what the officer is saying is true, or that they simply are fed up and want it all over with and will say anything for it to end.
o you believe that all DA's and law enforcement officials are honest people, with the communities best interests at heart?
What is DA? (please could people always write acronyms at least once in full for the benefit of those who come from another country and who don't automatically understand the terms).
No, I don't automatically assume that all law enforcement officials are honest people, with their community's best interests at heart. They are people, and corruption is present in all walks of life.
 
I won't even talk to police if pulled over for a traffic infraction. Before they can ask me a question I ask them why am I being detained. If asked to step out of the car I lock it behind me and let them know I don't answer any questions without a lawyer present. If they are rude after I tell them I won't answer without a lawyer I immediately ask for their supervisor.
If you reply to any question they ask they are making notes to use against you in a court of law even in a routine traffic stop and before your Miranda rights are read to you.
If you have a camera phone it is a good idea to record and let them know you are recording for both yours and their protection.
 
Yes, I don't trust the judicial system. It does not take coercion to get me to talk, but I would not, could not make a false statement. I spent over a month talking to an FBI agent, giving every detail of my life with my (at the time) husband. I was not coerced by the police or the FBI, but my husband tried to coerce me into lying. I have been taken into custody on different occasions and every time the police officer was more apologetic than anything. Perhaps it's because I am cooperative and accommodating and I think police officers in general are given a bad rap.

Once, my sister in law (from New York city, with a NY attitude) was mistaken to be me with no ID on her, and because of her resistance and cussing them out, they actually had her on the ground. I've never been handcuffed, yet have sat with another young girl with red marks around her wrist who also had an attitude.

So, although, I know there are bad police officers out there, like anything else (there are bad nurses, too), but from my own experience and observations how you're treated depends on your attitude and cooperation. If I ever broke the law, I would probably be spending time in jail because, yes, I'm going to answer any and all questions with or without a lawyer, and if I was guilty, I'd not have to be coerced into telling them I was guilty. If I'm innocent, as in the past, I talk and pray for the best.

That's just me and who I am.

Oh - but I do believe innocent people are often victims of being charged for crimes they did not commit. Often times it's when they are convinced they don't have a chance against a jury and it's sad that it's not always innocent until proven guilty.
 
This hive mentality seems to enter all aspects of life, not only the judicial system. It scares the crap out of me.


After reading and rereading this thread, I realized that I didn't know what you
had in mind with the term "hive mentality."

How well do these definitions cover it?

"the property of apparent sentience in a colony of social insects acting as a single organism, each insect performing a specific role for the good of the group.
Psychology , Sociology .
  1. a collective consciousness, analogous to the behavior of social insects, in which a group of people become aware of their commonality and think and act as a community, sharing their knowledge, thoughts, and resources: the global hive mind that has emerged with sites like Twitter and Facebook.
2. such a group mentality characterized by uncritical conformity and loss of a sense of individuality and personal accountability.
the definition of hive mind

Hive mind - Wikipedia


"...in order to form a hive mind, humans may have to act more like an integrated neural network. There are many forms that can take. In a sense, it’s already happening thanks to cell phones and the Internet. Careers are becoming increasingly specialized and we share almost all our information on the web or email, phone, text, conferences, etc. So humans do exhibit simultaneous specialization and integration. One limiting factor in forming a mind, however, is time: it takes a while for us to figure out anything that is relevant to all of humanity (or just a large group of people), and it takes a long time to communicate what we’ve found to everyone."
https://knowingneurons.com/2018/01/31/emergence-hive-mind/
 
Tough subject for many of us, whether we've done something wrong or not at all. Where demanding a lawyer may halt an interrogation, or legally escalate the entire matter.

The most pressing issue IMO is that it's always a basic tactic of anyone in law enforcement to interrogate someone without necessarily clarifying that they are a witness as opposed to being a suspect. Where the "door is left open" based on your real-time responses. It's something my insurance company did quite well in interviewing policyholders with workers compensation claims who were suspect in insurance fraud. Using former law enforcement officers to benignly interview claimants accordingly.

Here's the really maddening part of it all. The instant you demand a lawyer, you can count on the person interrogating you to have bridged whatever gap there might have been between you as a witness and you as a suspect.

Some words of advice, whether you are interrogated by a law enforcement officer on the scene or an attorney who is deposing you over a criminal or civil case. Never immediately respond to any question. Take your time giving the question considerable thought. This not only allows you some composure time, but it projects sense of credibility and lack of evasion in answering questions. Answering too fast may appear as if you are scripting responses to either be evasive or simply lying.

Most of all perhaps, answering slowly and thoughtfully allows you to possibly rationalize whether you may be only a witness or a suspect. Granted, not necessarily an easy thing to assess in real-time under stress. But in doing so, it may also allow you the choice of not demanding a lawyer which can instantly change the "complexion" of the interrogation altogether.
 
Last edited:
I'm on the fence about this.

Let's just say that I've had a very colorful life and leave it at that, or maybe not ;)

Here's my example of the negative take on it.

There are supposed to be the higher intelligent on the ball people, just for the record.


Years ago, I used to drink with a magistrate (local township elected judge) and a few others and would announce to the party I was with that I had better hit the road so I wouldn't get a DUI on my way home.
His response? "Stay longer, have a few more, if you get caught, tell them you were drinking with me"

Capital idea judge, drink more then try to kill others because I did, why didn't I think of that?
I wonder if the arresting officer would buy that during a homicide by vehicle arrest?
Dunno.
Prolly not.

He furthered his career by gaining a bench at the county level where his case load was primarily drug and alcohol related.
He was strict and held all accountable to the letter of the law.
Everyone except himself.
He was robbing the evidence locker for cocaine that he was addicted to. Like several thousands of dollars worth which he replaced with baking soda.
How would anyone find out?
Apparently, someone did.

He got accused after a sting operation pinned it on him, then moved to Alaska after tendering his resignation. The dolt didn't stop to think that they would extradite him.
Or maybe didn't care.
They brought him back to face trial over it.
Good judge my butt, a common criminal in a robe on a bench is more like it :rolleyes:

He basically walked with a 30 day jail term where he got some lame work release assignment the second day and was disbarred from the court system.
Oh, and a year on probation, can't forget how harsh that was :neutral:

We had a DA who took another girl I knew from business transactions with her grandfather out of jail and fed her drugs out of the evidence locker so she could perform acts of the oldest profession on his contacts.
She got the dope she was hooked on that put her in jail to begin with and time away from her incarceration just for playing his game.
Tiffany is now doing major time in a prison for her role in it.
Can't understand why, she was only holding up her end of his deal.
Later on, there was a murder that was never "solved" attached to a defendant who was out on bail for another offense. The guy that witnesses placed at the scene was charged for it and found not guilty on both charges under the DA's jurisdiction.

Funny how that all worked out seeing as how the guy that got killed was someone the DA tried to pin something on he didn't actually do that got to walk after his trial was over.
Imagine that, huh?

The DA was never questions further about any of this, because you know, you can trust a man in his position :p


Another local person who I was friends with became the county sheriff. I was interested in gaining my concealed carry permit because of the line of work I was involved in.
The sheriff's office is responsible for that task.

Back then, it was a process that involved a training course and an FBI background check before they handed you your permit. They only held the classroom once a month, so the scheduling for me was a pain in the butt.

He told me to give him a call the day I wanted my permit and he would hand me one bypassing all of the legal requirements in place.
I never took him up on it and he then got canned about a few months later for working outside of the system.
He only got probation, BTW.

Another magistrate took me aside during a visit as a witness to another case and asked me to please refrain from doing something I was involved in because he felt it was outside of the law.
I agreed to it, even though it really wasn't illegal to begin with. His concern was in it because he was selling stolen cars that another "reputable" organization was "rebuilding" and re-badging for him for sales his used car lot.

It was a pretty slick operation, a well known body shop that did a hefty amount of late model business was gaining total loss cars from major insurance companies they did business with then gathering stolen cars to replace them.
Paint them, detail them, then off to the lot for sale.
Do the labor then split the profits with the judge who bought all of the cars, easy as pie as they say, what could go wrong?

All I was doing was rebuilding the tilt steering columns from the stolen cars. I made $75 a pop labor to rebuild them, about 4-5 a month, and could generally do one in one hour.
Pretty cool side gig that helped pay for my performance car habits.
I already had the shop to do it in for my personal use and it was a natural to take on outside work as a result of having the facility.

They didn't know that, they only asked me about it after they saw me rebuild one in a car in the shop. Nothing was broken on that one, the 4 bowl bolts were loose from a heavy person using it as a handle to get in and out.
The flat rate manual paid three hours to just disassemble and reassemble one. The local independent labor rate was $25 an hour at the time(mid 1980s), so I could triple my cash flow in that hour.
They couldn't rebuild them and still turn a profit for that amount, so they farmed them out to me.
They were pleased to get them for that, because I had an ample supply of used parts needed at my disposal.
There was never more than an additional $25 added for the parts I was getting from another deal I had going, so each one out the door could potentially be turned into $100.
Spend half a day or so in labor and triple my hourly wage for that time.
Worked for me.

Once again, the scam gets over because I was paying attention to the money.
When all else fails, rely on capitalism, right? ;)

How was I to know what they were for?
I was only interested in the money.
Apparently, it was the same for the judge.

I was tipped off to all of this as the topic came up thru the grapevine.
Sometimes it pays off to be connected in that business, and boy did I ever have them back then.

He never got caught, but the dealership folded up soon afterwards.
I guess he was getting nervous, but what do I know?

The shop folded soon afterwards too after the two owners were exposed and convicted for massive amounts of insurance fraud and stolen cars.
Thirty years of doing business down the toilet just because they trusted a judge.
Coincidence?
Mebbe.

Trust 'em?
Not in this lifetime :p
 
After reading and rereading this thread, I realized that I didn't know what you
had in mind with the term "hive mentality."

How well do these definitions cover it?

"the property of apparent sentience in a colony of social insects acting as a single organism, each insect performing a specific role for the good of the group.
Psychology , Sociology .
  1. a collective consciousness, analogous to the behavior of social insects, in which a group of people become aware of their commonality and think and act as a community, sharing their knowledge, thoughts, and resources: the global hive mind that has emerged with sites like Twitter and Facebook.
2. such a group mentality characterized by uncritical conformity and loss of a sense of individuality and personal accountability.
the definition of hive mind

Hive mind - Wikipedia


"...in order to form a hive mind, humans may have to act more like an integrated neural network. There are many forms that can take. In a sense, it’s already happening thanks to cell phones and the Internet. Careers are becoming increasingly specialized and we share almost all our information on the web or email, phone, text, conferences, etc. So humans do exhibit simultaneous specialization and integration. One limiting factor in forming a mind, however, is time: it takes a while for us to figure out anything that is relevant to all of humanity (or just a large group of people), and it takes a long time to communicate what we’ve found to everyone."
https://knowingneurons.com/2018/01/31/emergence-hive-mind/
I was more relating it to the first definition, like how when a bee gets injured they let out a pheremone that puts all the other bees in the hive into attack mode.
 
Yes, I don't trust the judicial system. It does not take coercion to get me to talk, but I would not, could not make a false statement. I spent over a month talking to an FBI agent, giving every detail of my life with my (at the time) husband. I was not coerced by the police or the FBI, but my husband tried to coerce me into lying. I have been taken into custody on different occasions and every time the police officer was more apologetic than anything. Perhaps it's because I am cooperative and accommodating and I think police officers in general are given a bad rap.

Once, my sister in law (from New York city, with a NY attitude) was mistaken to be me with no ID on her, and because of her resistance and cussing them out, they actually had her on the ground. I've never been handcuffed, yet have sat with another young girl with red marks around her wrist who also had an attitude.

So, although, I know there are bad police officers out there, like anything else (there are bad nurses, too), but from my own experience and observations how you're treated depends on your attitude and cooperation. If I ever broke the law, I would probably be spending time in jail because, yes, I'm going to answer any and all questions with or without a lawyer, and if I was guilty, I'd not have to be coerced into telling them I was guilty. If I'm innocent, as in the past, I talk and pray for the best.

That's just me and who I am.

Oh - but I do believe innocent people are often victims of being charged for crimes they did not commit. Often times it's when they are convinced they don't have a chance against a jury and it's sad that it's not always innocent until proven guilty.
I know there are good people and bad people everywhere, but as a safety precaution, I'd recommend a lawyer for anything other than minor traffic violations.You are literally risking your freedom in many cases if you don't lawyer up. This is regardless of wether or not you are respectful or cooperative. It's your right, you might as well take full advantage of it in my opinion. They law is a tricky maze that many have been lost in, never to return.
 
Last edited:
For Americans, consider exactly what your Miranda Rights amount to. The good, the bad and the ugly:

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney, and to have your attorney present for questioning. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you by the court."

A dynamic that can occur not only with law enforcement in the public sector, but potentially in the private sector as well. Don't get too cozy with a business entity just because you are contractually their client. When "you're in good hands", don't assume those hands will work exclusively in your favor.

Always proceed with caution.
 
Last edited:

New Threads

Top Bottom