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Hiya, Callistemon from Australia

Callistemon

Part-Time Space Alien
V.I.P Member
Hi all. I'm here to learn a few things. While I don't fit cleanly into Aspie I am definitely not neurotypical and definitely share some characteristics with Aspies - like sensory hypersensitivities, ability to dive deeply into areas of interest (of which I have too many to apparently be an Aspie), frustration with people who don't follow rules that are made for the common good (but I also don't think unkind or unjust rules should be followed just because they are rules; for that there's civil disobedience etc).

I'm married to a non-neurotypical man who sits at least in borderline Aspie territory, i.e. a bit further over towards that than me. He's got the hypersensitivities, the obsessions, the difficulty socialising with neurotypical people, the tendency to get bogged down on the nitty-gritties when the big picture needs attention, for example. He finds neurotypical people boring and hates small talk, but they'd not necessarily know it - while he avoids socialising in his free time, especially with large groups, he's also very good at his face-to-face role in work and much appreciated for his bedside manner there (though he actually would prefer to change back out to a desk job where he doesn't have to deal with people and is looking at doing that, because it stresses the heck out of him to do the face-to-face).

I personally find it easy to connect with others (but didn't always, in part because I had to overcome my upbringing first) and he doesn't find me boring because we're both interested in a lot of things average people find a bit esoteric, like astrophysics, philosophy, fine arts. We both love reading all sorts of things and are voracious writers. He on the whole has excellent values and wouldn't sell you down the river like some people. A reputable online test says he's cusp Aspie but one of the problems with all of this is working these things out, and I thought I should hang around people who know more about these things to be educated by people who have real-life experience of these things.

I love my husband dearly and we generally have a happy relationship. I've come to this forum because I need better ways of solving conflicts with him, specifically around his meltdowns which he has around three times a year and which he didn't always have, but we've lived with for ten years now and we need help with. They and their tail are seriously distressing to me, and obviously it's not good for him either to get to the point of having a meltdown. No relationship no matter how many happy years you've had is invulnerable to ending when something like this isn't able to be dealt with. Anyway, I'm starting a separate thread on that if anyone would like to make some suggestions.

But I'm also happy to hear any thoughts anyone reading may have on any of this.

The above intro is summary and I'm happy to expand if there's any questions.
 
I’m not having a great day and it’s very late at night where I am so I apologize if I can’t give you a proper detailed response right now :(

But I can relate to a lot of what you’ve said on here, especially being a complex trauma survivor myself.
I’ve also been told that I have too many interests and too much of a variety of interests to be an Aspie. Prior to your post I had never heard this before aside from it being mentioned by a therapist. I’ve struggled a lot with my autism being invalidated by therapists due to being “well-adjusted” in terms of functioning, and how autism in females is viewed by professionals. My experience is that psychiatrists are very quick to jump to diagnosing “BPD” instead of validating female autism, or PTSD symptoms.

I will also say thank you for being so supportive to your husband :) I’m really happy you two have been able to have a happy marriage despite some issues. It’s really important for autistic people to have people we can rely on in our lives who are fully supportive.

I also get upset when people break rules for the common good and do things that are unjust or immoral.

I’m glad you’ve joined us here, and I’m always here if you need someone to chat with. :) I’m not always great at giving advice but I do try.
Thank you for being here!
- Luca
 
Thank you, crewlucaa. :) Hey, I'm not it the best frame myself either, last night my hubby threw his head torch into the bushes on a night walk when I asked him not to headlight me with them. He wasn't doing the headlighting intentionally, I know that, but he sometimes doesn't understand that you can still do things that are uncomfortable for other people even if you don't intend to make them uncomfortable - so he was like, "What? (repeating action)...I'm not headlighting you, I'm just looking back at the ground!" and of course, I got headlighted again. Sigh. So I tried to explain this (a bit narked :eek::mad:) and asked if he couldn't just believe me about something like this. He threw the head torch into the bushes and stormed off. This isn't everyday behaviour for him, it comes and goes and we're still in the tail of that recent meltdown I mentioned on the "Help with meltdowns" thread. But it's taking a toll on me just now. Complex PTSD is not an ideal partner for an Aspie meltdown. So I really do need some help right now so that I don't run away with the circus instead of continuing to work on our marriage.

That's so interesting what you're saying about thinking you're Aspie, and having PTSD. Because when I was trying to figure myself out post complex PTSD diagnosis, I actually wondered how many of my early social differences that might have gotten me classified into Aspie if people had done these things back then were actually caused by the rather horrific upbringing I had. If you don't teach your children social skills, and are a poor role model, including for conflict management or other relationship skills, how can your child get these things, neurotypical or not. If you don't socialise your child except when you're legally obliged to (by putting them in school) then how can your child learn social confidence etc. And how can any child learn social confidence if you scare the crap out of them, hit them, yell at them and don't give them emotional support. (If I'd not had a particularly superb Year 1/2 teacher, I don't know I would have ended up so functional, but thankfully the village raised me, not just my parents.)

I wonder to what extent the early childhood brain changes you get from growing up in a traumatic environment where you don't get much social skilling and emotional support overlap with some of the inborn traits of not being neurotypical.

Totally with you and with my husband re rules for the common good. AND it annoys me. I have to fast from news most of the time because it's so depressing.

Thanks for your reply! :cool: It augurs well for being able to learn things here. And I hope that you have a better day today! :hatchingchick:
 
Thank you, crewlucaa. :) Hey, I'm not it the best frame myself either, last night my hubby threw his head torch into the bushes on a night walk when I asked him not to headlight me with them. He wasn't doing the headlighting intentionally, I know that, but he sometimes doesn't understand that you can still do things that are uncomfortable for other people even if you don't intend to make them uncomfortable - so he was like, "What? (repeating action)...I'm not headlighting you, I'm just looking back at the ground!" and of course, I got headlighted again. Sigh. So I tried to explain this (a bit narked :eek::mad:) and asked if he couldn't just believe me about something like this. He threw the head torch into the bushes and stormed off. This isn't everyday behaviour for him, it comes and goes and we're still in the tail of that recent meltdown I mentioned on the "Help with meltdowns" thread. But it's taking a toll on me just now. Complex PTSD is not an ideal partner for an Aspie meltdown. So I really do need some help right now so that I don't run away with the circus instead of continuing to work on our marriage.

That's so interesting what you're saying about thinking you're Aspie, and having PTSD. Because when I was trying to figure myself out post complex PTSD diagnosis, I actually wondered how many of my early social differences that might have gotten me classified into Aspie if people had done these things back then were actually caused by the rather horrific upbringing I had. If you don't teach your children social skills, and are a poor role model, including for conflict management or other relationship skills, how can your child get these things, neurotypical or not. If you don't socialise your child except when you're legally obliged to (by putting them in school) then how can your child learn social confidence etc. And how can any child learn social confidence if you scare the crap out of them, hit them, yell at them and don't give them emotional support. (If I'd not had a particularly superb Year 1/2 teacher, I don't know I would have ended up so functional, but thankfully the village raised me, not just my parents.)

I wonder to what extent the early childhood brain changes you get from growing up in a traumatic environment where you don't get much social skilling and emotional support overlap with some of the inborn traits of not being neurotypical.

Totally with you and with my husband re rules for the common good. AND it annoys me. I have to fast from news most of the time because it's so depressing.

Thanks for your reply! :cool: It augurs well for being able to learn things here. And I hope that you have a better day today! :hatchingchick:
Thank you for your reply! :)
And I agree with everything you’ve said here!

Sorry you had that experience growing up too :( My trauma wasn’t from my parents, it was from a lack thereof… I was in foster care for most of my life.
I’ve gone into more detail in other threads but would be ok with further discussion if you think it’d help you :)

I’m in need of some sleep at the moment but I will definitely give you a more thought-out and detailed reply tomorrow :)
Hope you’re having a good day over there in Australia!!
- Luca
 
welcome to af.png
 
Hi and Welcome @Callistemon

Glad to have you with us. Do hang around a bit and get to know the folks in here better.
Also have a look around some of the older threads and see what you can find there - the search function is good.
 
Could I ask is it the flavour of the !month to say you think you're autistic and criticise other people I'm not neurotypical so I don't have nt friends I'm trying to grasp !????why someone would say they think they have autistic neurology, which incidentally cannot be altered to Neurotypical,then criticises someone who may have\ not have !autistic neurology
 
Could I ask is it the flavour of the !month to say you think you're autistic and criticise other people I'm not neurotypical so I don't have nt friends I'm trying to grasp !????why someone would say they think they have autistic neurology, which incidentally cannot be altered to Neurotypical,then criticises someone who may have\ not have !autistic neurology

I don't get it - is this directed at me? Because that's neither what I said, not what I think, nor how my life is.
 
Hello & welcome @Callistemon.
Questioning whether you have autism is fine, but you can get more focused advice for either of you when you have an official diagnosis.

Stick around.
Ask questions.
See if you recognize yourself or your husband in our posts.
 
Hiya, @Crossbreed, and thanks for the welcome. Well, that's why I'm here, and as explained (meltdown thread), there's never going to be an official diagnosis for my husband because he's not going to seek one, and I personally don't think it's worth the money for me to go to see an "official" person to see exactly where I sit with this one - if that can even be defined, given that the people I know who have been "officialled" as Aspie by one specialist have not been "officialled" by every specialist (which is also one of the first points @crewlucaa_ made). I'm content to know what I know already about myself (I'm different in many ways), and always learning more too (and not rolling in cash).

But it's the meltdowns that I'm specifically wanting to talk about with people who have either experienced that in themselves, or in a partner - advice about dealing with that. (And yes, I've done a lot of general reading already for many years, and talked to some "official" Aspies in my circle, but not about meltdowns so far.)

ETA location information.
 
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Well, that's why I'm here, and as explained, there's never going to be an official diagnosis for my husband because he's not going to seek one,...
Fair enough, but with that uncertainty, your possible solutions will remain a moving target.

An official diagnosis granted most of us clarity.
"So, that's why I did that..."
"That's why I do what I do now..."
"And that's why people react and have reacted in such unexpected ways..."

While it remains a hypothesis,
"That might be why that is happening,
...or it could be something else...?"
 
True, @Crossbreed, but to me personally, most things are just working hypotheses - our best ideas at the time, whether privately or in the scientific community - and very little is ultimate absolute truth - it's all open to continued learning and refinement. Life is complex, and I'm not particularly concerned exactly where various specialists would place us on/towards the spectrum, because it wouldn't make a functional difference in our particular case. We live in a place where official support isn't really practical. I am interested in hearing different experiences and points of view from people who either have been "classified" or self-identify to an extent, and I'm particularly interested in practical ideas and tips regarding meltdowns (separate thread has that in detail).

See, I'm different from "the norm" in so many ways because of a combination of genetic lottery, upbringing, complex trauma, immigration and other significant shaping experiences, and chosen current life, that it's enough for me to know that I'm different without having to fit or not fit particular boxes of "different" - if that makes any sense? I'm practical and always looking for more data, if you like. And it's amazing how much people from different "boxes" of "different" can have in common. Some of that is from typical social experiences "different" people from the norm encounter along the road, in reaction to their being "different". So I have a lot in common with Aspies and I know that from talking to "official" Aspies, whether or not I fit in that "box" - and I have tons in common with LGBTIQ+ even though I'm cis-gendered and heterosexual - and I have lots in common with people with various trauma-related conditions like PTSD, depression etc.

And I think that common ground between those groups is fertile ground indeed and worth cultivating.
 
Welcome, @Callistemon . This past year has been rough as things triggered my cPTSD from social isolation. Since last December I have been undergoing Cognitive Processing Therapy. It is hard work and exposes parts of myself that I would rather not remember. But now, I am learning better how to calm myself and this has improved my relationship with my spouse.

But, that said, your spouse would need to want to change in seeking assistance with behaviors that are evidently alieniting himself from you. Are you able to discuss that with him?
 
Hi Gerald, and thanks for your post. :sunflower: I can discuss things with him...I can generally discuss anything with him, and he was super fantastic and insightful and empathetic when I was recovering from the initial complex PTSD fallout, couldn't wish for a better support person, for any problem that's not related to anything he might be doing!

But when it's about things that cause friction with us, and we're pointing the lens at his emotions and not mine, he freezes up, literally. I think he'd rather have root canal therapy than talk about his own emotions for two minutes, possibly even than to contemplate his own emotions. Years ago when we tried couples therapy for this, the therapist gave him a feeling wheel to try to develop his language around his own feelings. He looked at it and said, "I don't have any feelings." But he does have feelings, I just think he is incredibly disconnected from them. From naming them, recognising them. He completely freezes when he's asked to identify emotions.

And he hates trying to look at his own feelings, and it seems to make him self-loathe to do it. He'll express his extreme discomfort at trying to do this, and end up negatively labelling himself as "stupid" and "worthless" and all sorts of things he's objectively not, and it breaks my heart to see it, and I think it might be coming from way, way back - he was different, and ostracised painfully in early childhood.

And once he gets into the "I'm stupid and worthless" zone, he may then start projecting that on the people talking to him about it and make it as if they are the people saying he's stupid and worthless, when they're not! :(

And then it doesn't matter what anyone says, you won't dissuade him from it.

He's never talked about any of this stuff to his friends through life. He's super insightful when it comes to my situation and how that related to my mental/emotional health, but not about his own stuff. If he applied the same ideas we've applied to my situation - things like family of origin analysis, narrative exercises, looking at various shaping experiences - to his own situation, I think that might really help him work out where these feelings are coming from, why he has them - but he just doesn't. I don't know what it is that freezes him up like this. He can see so clearly how certain things have worked to create the awful feelings I had to deal with, but when we try to look at his it's like he doesn't think he's a member of that species where things work that way.

PS: And in short, he's through with trying to seek help from anyone, and terminally closed now when it comes to the idea of talking to a stranger about this stuff, even more so than talking to someone he knows. He's completely uncomfortable with seeing someone about this professionally. And when he's uncomfortable, his entire brain seems to freeze up.
 
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I get the feeling that your husband is happy with the way he feels about who he is. Just like when an actor is asked to try to explain how they're able to embody a character, they don't really want to do so, in case it takes something away.

To be open to exploring one's feelings one has to be willing to feel vulnerable and be willing to be affected by what one finds. While it may be on one level exactly what he needs, and certainly from your perspective a way to create harmony within the relationship, from his perspective it is the last thing he would want to do.
 
Thanks for that insight, @SimonSays. :cherryblossom: Some of this may very well be how Anglo males were commonly socialised in his generation, "Boys don't cry" etc etc. The whole family is like that to an extent - I'm part Italian and kind of the opposite. He will watch My Big Fat Greek Wedding and shudder, while I laugh. I spent some time as a child living in a rural Italian community which took the village bringing up the child really seriously, and very much benefitted from it. And he really likes all of that in me - but doesn't want it for himself. I've wondered why he actually likes me so much when he actually shudders at all that warm-culture, touchy-feely stuff when he sees people other than me doing it. He says it's because it's OK to have that in an intimate partner and it's fine in me, but not en masse! Go figure.

...if he never does explore his feelings, quite apart from I don't know how we're going to deal with the meltdown stuff which is killing me, I do think he's also going to miss out on a lot of good stuff (while maybe pushing away a horror show). But if there's a way to deal with the meltdowns without doing that, I'm happy to try that instead.

I actually had some really wonderful advice from a diagnosed Aspie about handling a bout of depression he went through about a year ago. The advice was really counter-intuitive for me - she said, "Lay low, don't try to dissect or deconstruct it, give him space, try to just keep doing what you'd normally do recreationally together if he's up to it, and basically ignore the depression, or treat it like he's got fatigue." I did exactly that, and things went much better. :fourleaf:
 
"Lay low, don't try to dissect or deconstruct it, give him space, try to just keep doing what you'd normally do recreationally together if he's up to it, and basically ignore the depression, or treat it like he's got fatigue." I did exactly that, and things went much better.
That was excellent advice.
 
As he doesn't want or feel able to do any investigating of himself, could you think instead about how you could handle things differently, in terms of keeping yourself feeling OK without him being able/willing to change?

Some people who have been made pretty insecure by their backgrounds hear criticism in even constructive feedback, but working on yourself and your own inner security as an adult can help you keep an even keel despite his reactions. Sounds like you have done lots of work on yourself already.

If he throws his head torch into the bushes, I guess it won't shine in your eyes any more. If he won't work on anything, I am not sure what anyone here can say to help, as successful measures with meltdowns or any such issue involve the adult concerned being on board. I guess you can choose not to mention your frustration, but that's something you would have to consider the pros and cons of.
 
And when he's uncomfortable, his entire brain seems to freeze up.
Understandable. For the longest time I would rather hold onto my anger, resentment, and bitterness, than deal with the sources of it because I was scared about what that would tell me about myself. It was hard for me to process the ways I sabotaged myself, and that was only evident from 20/20 hindsight after I managed to make positive changes in myself. Now, with therapy, and what I hope will be a short application of antidepressant, I view what happened to me as history that is useless to relitigate. I only need to look over at my loving spouse to understand the positive changes and experiences that I was fortunate to have.
 

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