How do you define 'needy'?

[Seladon]

Not like Megan Foxa consensus on the working and commonly-accepted social definition is what I'm wondering. Because several times in my life, including yesterday (online), someone has called me or my behaviour 'needy'. This exact term. And it seems like it doesn't apply.

And as a reasonable individual who accepts I have flaws, ofc I'd be willing to accept and consider that I may be textbook 'needy'...but for the fact I avoid people, connections and affections! It's the opposite issue. So it makes no sense. Personal relationships platonic or otherwise seldom enter my life, and I always act detached, aloof or vague with others. People have left my life because they feel like I don't care. It's not often I communicate where I'm at or ask for favours or input on my life, either, I've had to learn how to do it. Apart from my sister, no-one is close to me like that.

So I've been mulling on it for ages, and can't for the life of me work out where people are coming from with this. All I've come up with is that they mean I seem needy for attention or validation in general, say from a crowd rather than from a specific person or people? But that doesn't really describe me, either. Sometimes I do talk or write too much, which annoys people I'm sure. And on rare occasion I speak and comment I do like to be listened to. However, much more of the time, I'm found observing quietly, or meekly agreeing, or trying to fade into the background. One of the worst horrors I have is of intruding on or imposing on someone. If anyone even hints that they want me gone, want me to quiet down or not to talk to me, that's a done deal, I accept it and no longer interact.

The worst instance of being called 'needy', and the one that stuck with me most, is from my similar-age cousin (he's a bit younger, few years), who when we were still teens-early 20s said it in response to my attempt to give him a casual friendly hug. After that, I was so taken aback that I kept my distance, turned cold and stopped interacting with him altogether, feeling like I was making him uncomfortable trying to be familial, which in retrospect was probably going a bit far/being too dramatic (I was 19/20 years old and emo at the time, come on).

All in all, it's just confusing. Perhaps I'm missing a trick, here? Am open to correction or redirection.

 

[thejuice]

I don't have any friends or talk to family a whole lot. Excepts for sudden bouts of anxiety and then I can go the opposite and be too much and push people away. I also get impatient and dont want to wait to become friends with people, I want it straight away.
It might have something to do with pushing down the feelings of a need for connection. Like a defense mechanism because we don't have the ability to make friends. In moments of weakness these repressed needs explode like a volcano and we get the needy tag. Well for me anyway

 

[Seladon]

I don't have any friends or talk to family a whole lot. Excepts for sudden bouts of anxiety and then I can go the opposite and be too much and push people away. I also get impatient and dont want to wait to become friends with people, I want it straight away.
It might have something to do with pushing down the feelings of a need for connection. Like a defense mechanism because we don't have the ability to make friends. In moments of weakness these repressed needs explode like a volcano and we get the needy tag. Well for me anyway

Yes, the vacillation sounds familiar to me. Do your family sometimes wonder where you are or what you're up to, if you dropped off the grid? The impatience for me is more getting bored with people I already know, though--still bad!


What you said about defense mechanisms really makes sense, and lines up with what anthropologists, psychologists & biologists all believe about social connection being an undeniable social requirement. Perhaps our ASD blindspots extend to that need, and to the expression thereof.

 

[Au Naturel]

"Needy" is an opinion.

People tell you that you're needy because they can't/won't spare the attention or effort. If it is someone you know to be a selfish SOB, I wouldn't take it seriously.

If it comes from many different people, you might look at what you asked for when they said it.

"Needy" isn't a binary state. It is a sliding scale of neediness and everyone is somewhere on it. That scale is modified by how important the other person thinks you are. If you're very important to them, they will make great efforts. If you are not, you'll get the brush off—or land at some point between.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

Not like Megan Foxa consensus on the working and commonly-accepted social definition is what I'm wondering. Because several times in my life, including yesterday (online), someone has called me or my behaviour 'needy'. This exact term. And it seems like it doesn't apply.

And as a reasonable individual who accepts I have flaws, ofc I'd be willing to accept and consider that I may be textbook 'needy'...but for the fact I avoid people, connections and affections! It's the opposite issue. So it makes no sense. Personal relationships platonic or otherwise seldom enter my life, and I always act detached, aloof or vague with others. People have left my life because they feel like I don't care. It's not often I communicate where I'm at or ask for favours or input on my life, either, I've had to learn how to do it. Apart from my sister, no-one is close to me like that.

So I've been mulling on it for ages, and can't for the life of me work out where people are coming from with this. All I've come up with is that they mean I seem needy for attention or validation in general, say from a crowd rather than from a specific person or people? But that doesn't really describe me, either. Sometimes I do talk or write too much, which annoys people I'm sure. And on rare occasion I speak and comment I do like to be listened to. However, much more of the time, I'm found observing quietly, or meekly agreeing, or trying to fade into the background. One of the worst horrors I have is of intruding on or imposing on someone. If anyone even hints that they want me gone, want me to quiet down or not to talk to me, that's a done deal, I accept it and no longer interact.

The worst instance of being called 'needy', and the one that stuck with me most, is from my similar-age cousin (he's a bit younger, few years), who when we were still teens-early 20s said it in response to my attempt to give him a casual friendly hug. After that, I was so taken aback that I kept my distance, turned cold and stopped interacting with him altogether, feeling like I was making him uncomfortable trying to be familial, which in retrospect was probably going a bit far/being too dramatic (I was 19/20 years old and emo at the time, come on).

All in all, it's just confusing. Perhaps I'm missing a trick, here? Am open to correction or redirection.

Needy is when you cling onto others especially unavailable people in a bid to obtain attention or support or love you are missing in your life.
Not bring able to stand on your own too feet because you are sad or emotionally hurt or did not get enough attention or affection as a child.
So you constantly flicker through life and if someone shows interest and you like it, you cling to them even if it is not right and then when that does not work find someone else or fall in a hole and try to struggle on your own.
Because finding a constant in your life is challenging.

 

[Rodafina]

Because several times in my life, including yesterday (online), someone has called me or my behaviour 'needy'. This exact term. And it seems like it doesn't apply.

It is possible that these people chose that particular term because of how they were feeling in the moment - unable to give anything but for some reason compelled to do so. There is always the chance that something you said or did was being misunderstood, too - while you were just saying or doing something without expectation for anything in return, the other person may have interpreted it as you asking for something from them.

I think @Au Naturel makes a good point when he says, "If it comes from many different people, you might look at what you asked for when they said it."

Personally, I see needy as a lack of self sufficiency and an inability to self soothe. While we all may need a little help or some external affirmation at times, at the end of the day, we are each responsible for ourselves and taking care of our own needs. A strong sense of confidence and positive self esteem can go a long way in building a feeling of self sufficiency. Then, interacting with others becomes a quest of curiosity and connection rather than needing things from others.

 

[jsilver256]

I think this is probably the worst part of having ASD1. The low theory of mind makes it difficult for us to gauge the impact we're having on others. When we get surprising feedback, it introduces a cognitive dissonance where we're always questioning our own behavior and its impact on others. It causes eroding self-esteem which makes us not as attractive, which in turn causes a negative feedback loop and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The solution is to try to come to a place of self-confidence to the point where we do not seek validation from others, but that is a lifelong journey.

 

[Seladon]

I think this is probably the worst part of having ASD1. The low theory of mind makes it difficult for us to gauge the impact we're having on others. When we get surprising feedback, it introduces a cognitive dissonance where we're always questioning our own behavior and its impact on others. It causes eroding self-esteem which makes us not as attractive, which in turn causes a negative feedback loop and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The solution is to try to come to a place of self-confidence to the point where we do not seek validation from others, but that is a lifelong journey.

This chimes 100% with me, thank you for saying that. It's the reflexive self-questioning at every turn that becomes a habit.

How do people like us build NT-level confidence, though? Especially when it's harder for us to get ahead, thanks to all the confusing rules & roadblocks in our path.

 

[Seladon]

It is possible that these people chose that particular term because of how they were feeling in the moment - unable to give anything but for some reason compelled to do so. There is always the chance that something you said or did was being misunderstood, too - while you were just saying or doing something without expectation for anything in return, the other person may have interpreted it as you asking for something from them.

I think @Au Naturel makes a good point when he says, "If it comes from many different people, you might look at what you asked for when they said it."

Personally, I see needy as a lack of self sufficiency and an inability to self soothe. While we all may need a little help or some external affirmation at times, at the end of the day, we are each responsible for ourselves and taking care of our own needs. A strong sense of confidence and positive self esteem can go a long way in building a feeling of self sufficiency. Then, interacting with others becomes a quest of curiosity and connection rather than needing things from others.

The last line of this really sticks with me, that's a good way of putting it.

On a related note, I find that people are more voluble in discussion and share more when one asks open-ended 'how' questions rather than more specific detail-oriented and closed '-wh' questions ('what/why/who/where/when'). Little tricks like that got a long way,

The difficulty I encounter is differentiating when someone is speaking from their own feelings & judgements rather than being objective, and thereby knowing whether what they're saying is valid to my situation or not. In moodier moments, I think "if only people were like Sims and you could check for sure! Or pre-select an answer!"

There's really a detectable fear in so many, ASD or NT, of being taken advantage of. And having been exploited myself, I get where it comes from. Most interactions are an exchange of something, and in this commodified and post-industrial hellscape we are all primed to expect returns on effort expended, or assurance that there is nothing demanded of us.

@Au Naturel does make a good point, consensus generally points to something significant, even if not the truth whole cloth and absolute. So I am combing back through all my memories to see if there's a common link--nothing's jumping out yet...

 

[jsilver256]

How do people like us build NT-level confidence, though? Especially when it's harder for us to get ahead, thanks to all the confusing rules & roadblocks in our path.

I wish I knew.

 

[Au Naturel]

This chimes 100% with me, thank you for saying that. It's the reflexive self-questioning at every turn that becomes a habit.

How do people like us build NT-level confidence, though? Especially when it's harder for us to get ahead, thanks to all the confusing rules & roadblocks in our path.

Justifiable confidence stems from self-knowledge, knowledge of the situation, and a dash of optimism. They know their current limits and how far they can push themselves. They calculate their risks and can accept losing. If they fail at something, they don't take it personally. They chalk it up to lessons learned and move on.

Being able to land on your feet after a potential loss is important. In the real world, failure is always an option.

Confidence isn't always justified, but people seem attracted to it even when there's no evidence to support it. Most people have areas they are confident in and others where they know they are in over their heads.

There are a lot of unconfident NTs out there who believe in "fake it until you make it."

 

[Seladon]

Justifiable confidence stems from self-knowledge, knowledge of the situation, and a dash of optimism. They know their current limits and how far they can push themselves. They calculate their risks and can accept losing. If they fail at something, they don't take it personally. They chalk it up to lessons learned and move on.

Being able to land on your feet after a potential loss is important. In the real world, failure is always an option.

Confidence isn't always justified, but people seem attracted to it even when there's no evidence to support it. Most people have areas they are confident in and others where they know they are in over their heads.

There are a lot of unconfident NTs out there who believe in "fake it until you make it."

You know what's crazy coincidental to all this wisdom you've shared?

Am just rewatching this movie I loved as a teen, called 'The Wackness'--very funny, likeable indie--about a depressed 18-year old who's in therapy (and also dealing d rugs...to his therapist) who encounters exactly this issue, that he can't seem to find optimism or detachment or any kind of social confidence (wondering now if his character might be a little bit like us..)

So he sort of 'practises' emotional risk with this bored girl he meets. Gets his heart broken ofc, but it's presented as a good lesson in resilience. Kind of makes me wish I'd tried that at the same age XD

Risk aversion plays an immense part in this quandary, it would seem. Imo because if you're going to others, for validation or love or resources whatever, you don't want to risk going out in the world without that supply, in case it's just you standing there alone with your self and nothing to offer or back it up. Unless that's just me.

 

[Au Naturel]

Risk aversion is central to lack of confidence. A lot of things can go into making you more confident, but a high degree of risk aversion will always sink your ship.

I knew a guy when I was younger. Kind of an obnoxious guy who exaggerated his adventures and overestimated his abilities. He was always being turned down by girls, yet he fancied himself quite a lady's man.

His secret was to "swing at every ball he was pitched." He realized that it was a game in which he had unlimited at-bats. If he swung at enough balls, he'd get a hit out of random luck. Striking out was never more than a momentary disappointment but getting that rare hit was incredible.

I was never able to reach that level of nonchalance. Being turned down was always crushing. But I kept swinging, and that's why I've been married for 37 years.

 

[Seladon]

Risk aversion is central to lack of confidence. A lot of things can go into making you more confident, but a high degree of risk aversion will always sink your ship.

I knew a guy when I was younger. Kind of an obnoxious guy who exaggerated his adventures and overestimated his abilities. He was always being turned down by girls, yet he fancied himself quite a lady's man.

His secret was to "swing at every ball he was pitched." He realized that it was a game in which he had unlimited at-bats. If he swung at enough balls, he'd get a hit out of random luck. Striking out was never more than a momentary disappointment but getting that rare hit was incredible.

I was never able to reach that level of nonchalance. Being turned down was always crushing. But I kept swinging, and that's why I've been married for 37 years.

This fella sounds like a real character, almost sitcom-esque. Probably was fun if annoying to hang out with him!

There must be a method to risk aversion that works better for ASD, though. One look at this forum reveals how many of us are massively sensitive to rejection and failure and potential for social mockery, because of how we were treated or traumatised growing up. It's a trigger to lean into rejection.

The new temporary NHS counsellor I've got (he's NT, I think) keeps telling me to 'fake it 'til you make it' and seek failures, and as a person whom desperate automatic masking to survive has essentially turned into a doormat and a ghost, I'm doubtful this is the best advice.

 

[Au Naturel]

In my case, I have not overcome risk aversion as much as would perhaps be good for me. I do things some people might think risky, but I have looked at the downside and discovered it was imaginary. Or I look at the downside and the upside, and missing out on the upside is a bigger failure than experiencing the downside would be. There are things where FOMO can be your friend.

But those are all activities and behaviors, not social interaction. I take care to do social stuff with people who have already expressed a strong interest in something that I share. I have a built-in topic of discussion. If it is something uncommon, there is a built-in "us against the world" factor, whether it is libertarian politics or running around naked or whatever.

I also have an FTW demon that kicks in when my life feels completely in ruins. Not caring is like fire—it's dangerous, but it can also be useful and sometimes it is absolutely necessary.