How does my cousin do it?

[Misty Avich]

One of my cousins is what I call an extreme NT. She starts a job, then literally within less than a month she has made friends, as in people who want to see her outside of work and do stuff with her. I really don't get what power she has to draw anyone and everyone to her. She just has friends everywhere. I mean, what is it? Friendliness? I have that. Chatty? Well I have that too. Natural desire to make friends? I have that as well. But I fail, always have had. I just get socially rejected, excluded, humiliated. Yes I'm likeable, and nobody dislikes me as such, but the friendships I make at work just stay in the workplace.

But even not all NTs make friends as quickly and as easily as my cousin. But even so, if only I had been born from my aunt's womb, or my mother or father carried the 'excessive neurotypical gene', then I might have turned out like my cousin. Not only she's always been popular, she's confident, bright and sporty. I'm the total opposite to that; unconfident, unpopular, thick, hate sport, and just set up for failure.

Yet, the strange thing is, we have so many similarities in personality and perspectives, and every time we meet we always get on and have a wonderful time, always finding things to talk about and we share the same humour. Maybe it's because we're related? But then again, I don't think being related really makes a difference in relationships, as a lot of Aspies don't click with their cousins or other family members.

 

[jsilver256]

How much time do you invest in others? Not in trying to be liked, but actually caring about others, carrying their burdens, bringing them gifts, remembering birthdays, etc. Or inviting them to parties and such.

I find friends easy to make but exhausting to keep.

 

[Misty Avich]

How much time do you invest in others? Not in trying to be liked, but actually caring about others, carrying their burdens, bringing them gifts, remembering birthdays, etc. Or inviting them to parties and such.

I find friends easy to make but exhausting to keep.

Well I'm not the stereotypical sort of Aspie who monologues on about one or two subjects only, and I don't know much about much. But I'd much rather gossip or talk about feelings and opinions, and I am a good listener. I don't have hardly any money so can't afford to bring people gifts, although I have given people gift vouchers before on their birthdays, when I had the money. Nothing in return though (not that I give to receive but just the principle). And remembering names and birthdays isn't a problem for me, as you've only got to tell me your birthday once and I remember it forever (apart from the year). I always wish people a happy birthday on Facebook. I do love to chat with people and I've even been told by several people before that I'm easy to talk to. Maybe it's because I don't ask many questions about themselves? I don't like to though, in case they think I'm prying. I think that fear is from social rejection I experienced in the past, having comments like ''I wasn't talking to you!'' and ''none of your business!'' hurled at me, which is so humiliating, especially when you're only being friendly and caring. And I do naturally care about people.

 

[Aspychata]

That is a universal desire, to be the most popular, everyone wants to be your friend. It's quite normal to feel this about her. I have flown on both sides. Don't want to be friends with someone who wants to be my friend, and not making friends with someone myself.

 

[jsilver256]

Well I'm not the stereotypical sort of Aspie who monologues on about one or two subjects only, and I don't know much about much. But I'd much rather gossip or talk about feelings and opinions, and I am a good listener. I don't have hardly any money so can't afford to bring people gifts, although I have given people gift vouchers before on their birthdays, when I had the money. Nothing in return though (not that I give to receive but just the principle). And remembering names and birthdays isn't a problem for me, as you've only got to tell me your birthday once and I remember it forever (apart from the year). I always wish people a happy birthday on Facebook. I do love to chat with people and I've even been told by several people before that I'm easy to talk to. Maybe it's because I don't ask many questions about themselves? I don't like to though, in case they think I'm prying. I think that fear is from social rejection I experienced in the past, having comments like ''I wasn't talking to you!'' and ''none of your business!'' hurled at me, which is so humiliating, especially when you're only being friendly and caring. And I do naturally care about people.

Hmm well what kind of friendship are you after? Being liked is totally different than going on outings is totally different than an emotional connection.

My formula for socialization is just to ask them questions and act super impressed and interested. Most NT’s favorite topic is themselves. This is especially true if they have children, ask about ages, pictures, etc. My goal is to just get them comfortable enough that they’ll start monologuing about themselves so I don’t have any social pressure to talk.

I guess I’m likable because someone’s always trying to talk to me at these events. One person leaves, another sits by me. But this is a totally different thing from actually turning them into a friend.

 

[Ken]

One of my cousins is what I call an extreme NT. She starts a job, then literally within less than a month she has made friends, as in people who want to see her outside of work and do stuff with her. I really don't get what power she has to draw anyone and everyone to her. She just has friends everywhere. I mean, what is it? Friendliness? I have that. Chatty? Well I have that too. Natural desire to make friends? I have that as well. But I fail, always have had. I just get socially rejected, excluded, humiliated. Yes I'm likeable, and nobody dislikes me as such, but the friendships I make at work just stay in the workplace.

Yep, I have been mystified by that all my life. Throughout my 70+ plus years, I have been in many different places and positions, but human relations has always been obscure.

About a year ago, I found the answer in a book titled, "An Immense World" by Ed Yong. It's all about umwelt. I found this book to be one of the most profoundly illuminating books I have ever read. Even though the word, "autism" or neurodiversity is never mentioned throughout its 400+ pages, I find that it answers so many huge questions about our perception and why so many things are so mystifying. The synopsis of the book leads one to believe that it is all about animal perceptions, but humans are also animals. We all, every individual has our own unique umwelt.

 

[Misty Avich]

Yep, I have been mystified by that all my life. Throughout my 70+ plus years, I have been in many different places and positions, but human relations has always been obscure.

About a year ago, I found the answer in a book titled, "An Immense World" by Ed Yong. It's all about umwelt. I found this book to be one of the most profoundly illuminating books I have ever read. Even though the word, "autism" or neurodiversity is never mentioned throughout its 400+ pages, I find that it answers so many huge questions about our perception and why so many things are so mystifying. The synopsis of the book leads one to believe that it is all about animal perceptions, but humans are also animals. We all, every individual has our own unique umwelt.

I'd actually prefer to read something like that that doesn't mention autism, as it makes me feel more normal and less isolated, and also it doesn't bang on about autistic empathy and lack thereof, instead if it does mention empathy it just mentions normal human empathy and lack thereof, something we all experience. I always love it when I'm not defined by autism and can just admit to being me rather than a condition. Also most autism-related text doesn't describe me much. My social problems seem to fit the description of ADHD, mental health and NT social anxiety. So yeah, that does sound more like a helpful book for someone like me, though I don't read much as I find it difficult to focus. But I guess I could find it on audiobook? (Yes I can focus on an audiobook if I'm doing other activities while listening, such as drawing or colouring).

 

[Misty Avich]

Hmm well what kind of friendship are you after? Being liked is totally different than going on outings is totally different than an emotional connection.

Well I don't know really. Does getting along nicely with people at work a form of emotional connection?

My formula for socialization is just to ask them questions and act super impressed and interested. Most NT’s favorite topic is themselves. This is especially true if they have children, ask about ages, pictures, etc. My goal is to just get them comfortable enough that they’ll start monologuing about themselves so I don’t have any social pressure to talk.

Do most NTs really like talking about themselves? I thought it was just autistics, narcissists and egocentric people who's favourite topics is about themselves. Or is it just part of the human condition?

I guess I’m likable because someone’s always trying to talk to me at these events. One person leaves, another sits by me. But this is a totally different thing from actually turning them into a friend.

Well I'm likeable as in I don't break many unwritten rules. I like unwritten rules (but I hate written rules). Unwritten rules feel more like instinct, where as written rules are just a killjoy, big brother, and a pain in the ass. There is one guy at work who is unlikeable, and nobody likes him much. But I do feel a social bond, or a sense of acceptance, with me and others at work. I'm not popular but I'm not unliked. But when it comes to people arranging social activities outside of work I'm very seldom included, even if I hint that I enjoy what they're planning. I just imagine if I were my cousin then I'd be the first person they'd ask to join them outside of work, probably all asking me in unison in a desperate attempt to be with me. Unfortunately I don't have that sort of hold over people, but I do know that the people at work don't see each other outside of work, so I do feel less excluded. The people I used to work with were all around my age and formed a bit of a clique and often did things together outside work even though they didn't know each other before they started working there, and I joined the workplace before they knew each other well enough to form their clique.

I don't do very well with cliques. I just like everybody if they're nice enough people. There was some (racial) bullying going on at work, but for once I wasn't the victim. But I was/am friends with both the bullies and the victim, as I don't like cliquing up with one side or the other, if both sides are nice to me. I know how to do it. I had supported the victim emotionally through it all, because I saw him as a friend. But sadly he's left and I never did get his contact number, but I know he would have been delighted to have my contact number (he doesn't use social media). I know he wouldn't reject me. The guys who bullied him know I'm friends with him but they like me anyway, because I'm nice to them and don't go around causing trouble or saying things I shouldn't.

 

[Hypnalis]

Try an "energy flow" test. Social "energy flow" usually turns up in the extrovert/introvert split: extroverts gain energy from social interactions, introverts consume energy while interacting.

Most (maybe all) of the very likeable people I've met have something else: they add social energy to people they interact with. They've all been extroverts so far, but not all extroverts have this effect.

 

[jsilver256]

Give this a try. Just ask a NT (in person) about their kids, their kids’ ages, photos. After all the social greetings are done and the small talk starts, of course. And don’t forget to call their kids cute. I think you’ll find this is a topic that gets NTs “going” assuming they have kids.

Autistics have that reputation because they lack the ability to detect social reciprocation and detect if a person is actually interested, and end up talking about special interests or oversharing which nobody wants (myself included). But I don’t think they talk about themselves more than anyone else.

 

[Outdated]

I always had the same problem as @jsilver256 as in too many people wanting to be my friend and me not having enough time or energy for them.

People are attracted to positive personalities. I always have a bright outlook, no problem is ever too difficult, and I never complain. I'm much the same myself, if people are always whingeing and griping they are uncomfortable to be around, they dampen my mood and suck all the joy out of my life.

 

[Misty Avich]

Give this a try. Just ask a NT (in person) about their kids, their kids’ ages, photos. After all the social greetings are done and the small talk starts, of course. And don’t forget to call their kids cute. I think you’ll find this is a topic that gets NTs “going” assuming they have kids.

I am interested in people's kids and I do often ask about them if I'm close enough to them. Or just about their families in general. It's so easy to ask "how's your wife/husband/kids?" I also usually ask what people did at the weekend, that sort of stuff. I like hearing what people have to say.

Autistics have that reputation because they lack the ability to detect social reciprocation and detect if a person is actually interested, and end up talking about special interests or oversharing which nobody wants (myself included). But I don’t think they talk about themselves more than anyone else.

I understand this, from a non-autistic point of view, because I can get bored when being bombarded with facts about a certain subject or someone talking about the same thing, unless it's gossip and stuff, because I do find that interesting. No, I don't monologue on about politics (I don't know enough about it to talk nonstop on the subject anyway), although I can throw in a little rant if the topic is brought up by others, and my views actually gain me some popularity points because so far everyone I've had a conversation with about that have the same political views as me, but I won't go into all that here. I prefer to leave political discussions for online, but, alas..

Usually autistics have special interests that don't interest me in the slightest, such as certain music, Star Trek, Zelda or similar videogames, anime, action superhero movies, or even drugs. Boring. I like smalltalk, jokes and gossip. And if it is an intelligent subject then I don't mind if it's about the supernatural and cool stuff like that.

I have the skill where no matter how stressed or depressed I am, I never take it out on my colleagues. If I'm really in distress I just verbalise how I'm feeling but I'm still always up for a chat and a joke around. Some NTs I know don't seem to have this skill, and turn up for work in a bad mood and is rude to everyone they speak to just because they had an argument with their spouse over who's turn it was to take the trash out. I'm not like that. In fact usually interacting with people at work helps me to relax and feel happier. I can't stand people who come in in a foul mood and are rude to everyone in their path (yes, I know as Aspies we are meant to have 'empathy' for this but can't behave like this ourselves otherwise we also somehow lack empathy for doing that but there you go).

 

[marc_101]

I know how to be friendly and make friends. The problem is that it requires an immense amount of energy, and lately my cost-benefit analysis tilts towards the hermit side

 

[MNAus]

One of my cousins is what I call an extreme NT. She starts a job, then literally within less than a month she has made friends, as in people who want to see her outside of work and do stuff with her. I really don't get what power she has to draw anyone and everyone to her. She just has friends everywhere. I mean, what is it? Friendliness? I have that. Chatty? Well I have that too. Natural desire to make friends? I have that as well. But I fail, always have had. I just get socially rejected, excluded, humiliated. Yes I'm likeable, and nobody dislikes me as such, but the friendships I make at work just stay in the workplace.

But even not all NTs make friends as quickly and as easily as my cousin. But even so, if only I had been born from my aunt's womb, or my mother or father carried the 'excessive neurotypical gene', then I might have turned out like my cousin. Not only she's always been popular, she's confident, bright and sporty. I'm the total opposite to that; unconfident, unpopular, thick, hate sport, and just set up for failure.

Yet, the strange thing is, we have so many similarities in personality and perspectives, and every time we meet we always get on and have a wonderful time, always finding things to talk about and we share the same humour. Maybe it's because we're related? But then again, I don't think being related really makes a difference in relationships, as a lot of Aspies don't click with their cousins or other family members.

I suspect your last paragraph has a different relevance than you might think. She has the ability to make people feel they have a natural click. I think you can learn that. But the easiest route is to have a genuine interest in a person.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

But when it comes to people arranging social activities outside of work I'm very seldom included, even if I hint that I enjoy what they're planning.

I know how this feels. My advice here would be to ask directly "that sounds really fun, would you mind if I come?" Sure, that feels awkward at first. But if you get along well with those people on a few occasions, they might start to include you then. Worst they can say is no, and they wouldn't be very nice people then, anyway.

I don't do very well with cliques. I just like everybody if they're nice enough people.

I don't like cliques either. Mostly, I find them stressful, like the peer pressure is multiplied. I have several friends, and almost all of them don't really know each other, or at least don't have any close connections. I like that, it gives me the feeling that each friend is "a new sheet", if that makes sense. If there's a problem with one friend, it doesn't affect my friendship with my other friends. And they're all very different in personality, so it's like I have someone for most moods and topics. They would probably not get along at all, if they all met one day.

People are attracted to positive personalities. I always have a bright outlook, no problem is ever too difficult, and I never complain. I'm much the same myself, if people are always whingeing and griping they are uncomfortable to be around, they dampen my mood and suck all the joy out of my life.

That's true. I also feel that people with brighter personalities have it easier.

I feel like it's not like most NTs want to talk about themselves all the time - at least I haven't experienced that - but it's more important to find people with whom you have common ground. Similar interests, similar problems, similar life situations. With those, both people can get excited and talk, without one person being bored or pretending to be interested. It's a give and take. I don't think friendships should be built in one person pretending most of the time. If you're just not interested in that person's topics, then that's fine but that's not your friend then, and vice versa.

The thing is, Misty, that I'm not entirely sure what you wish for or what you're looking for. A bit like

Hmm well what kind of friendship are you after? Being liked is totally different than going on outings is totally different than an emotional connection.

says.

Do you wish for more friends? Do you want closer friendships? Do you want to be a social butterfly, being liked by all and getting invited to a lot of things without having to ask? (That last one would be the most difficult, I think - some people have that, and others don't. I definitely don't. But I wouldn't like it really, I think.)

What you write about your cousin sounds good and easy-going, but she surely has other difficulties, maybe some you don't know about. In my experience, such people who easily get new connections and seem to have a new string of friends wherever they go don't necessarily have it easier to form deep, longer-lasting friendships than, say, we do. My sister is one of those people, too - starts at a new workplace, and after a week they're going out for drinks, celebrating birthdays, etc. But talk to her a few months later, and she hasn't found any real friends. Those connections some people seem to collect by hundreds are often superficial with not that much behind them.

 

[jsilver256]

@AuroraBorealis 's post is spot-on. Maybe an analogy will help.

There's the mass-appeal movies - superhero sequels and the like - which are a good way to burn a couple of hours, can be re-watched, but are forgettable.

There's the "memorable" movies, like Interstellar or Memento, which most people will watch only once but sticks with them.

There's the cult classics, like Donnie Darko, which have a limited fanbase but these fans will be fiercely loyal and watch the movies over and over.

Making a good movie doesn't start with "be less bad and people will like it more," it starts with thinking about what kind of movie you want to make.

 

[Misty Avich]

I always thought making friends successfully meant they want to spend time with you outside of the place you first met them. And acquaintances meant you only chat in the place you first met them and it goes no further.

Maybe it stems from my lonely teenage years where all my peers hung out with school friends outside of school, while I was never invited or included and just spent most weekends sitting alone in my room or relying on my cousins being about for me to hang out with (which they weren't so much once we were teenagers because they were too busy hanging out with their friends). I was the definition of Billy No Mates. And that feeling still sticks with me today. Seems I am traumatized, or at least haunted, by my horrible teenage years.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I always thought making friends successfully meant they want to spend time with you outside of the place you first met them. And acquaintances meant you only chat in the place you first met them and it goes no further.

That's an interesting definition.

In my mind, friends are people with mutual trust, who know things about you, whom you feel comfortable sharing personal things with and who also share things with you, and where both people enjoy spending time with one another. To me, it doesn't really matter where that takes place. I had really good friends at school whom I had never met outside of school, but we spent a lot of lunchbreaks together.
Maybe some of it stems from the fact that most people seem to act a bit differently and also talk about other things if you meet them in other surroundings. A closer connection might develop like that, since they might feel comfortable sharing more things at a coffeeshop than at work with colleagues around. I guess those things are connected.

Acquaintances can be people you see often, but don't have a closer connection with. You say hi and how are you and maybe share a few things about work, but don't have a further connection.

I guess that's my definition. But I definitely understand where you're coming from, too.

 

[Misty Avich]

I think my mum had an odd definition of what "normal" meant when I was an adolescent. When exasperated with me always under her feet all the time because I had nobody to go out with, she'd yell "why can't you be normal?" So one day I asked her what is normal? She replied, "well, normal (for an adolescent) means belonging to clubs, having decent friends to go out with, sleepovers, doing stuff like that." I guess that's what all parents want their teenage kids to be doing. Stereotypically people assume that teenagers having friends means they're going to get influenced into drugs, but it's not always like that, if you find the right group of people. And besides, a lot of people on the spectrum get influenced into drugs due to wanting to fit in and fear of social isolation. Luckily I never went down that road. I was more like a shut-in with no friends. I found a best friend when I was 16, and we did do a lot together inside and outside of school, and it was great. I loved her to bits. But that friendship only lasted a year, because she didn't want me to go to college so fell out with me as a result and began bullying me over text (even though I suggested she come to college with me, but when she said she didn't want to I respected that and I still said I wanted to stay friends, but she didn't want to know and decided to hate me instead).

 

[Dagan]

It's just weird how I socialize, is all that I know. I have a tendency to click with folks, but when I turn off...that's it for me. I need to get back to you however later. Apologies. I'm not mad at anyone. I'm just having to recharge or better process or such. I think that whole part of going silent whenever is something that makes most folks think that I'm just mad or whatever at that time. Mistaken anger. I has the resting grump-a-lump face issue, too, so that probably ruins things in person whenever, as well. Constantly mistaken cues. Oops.