How to seek faith despite logic

[Nisk]

I'm trying to find some more spirituality in my life (not religion just something greater the myself). I've tried in the past and frequently run into the issue of logic outweighing spiritual faith and I inevitably give up trying and continue to bump along in the dark that is life, with nothing other then my twisted views on the world to help guide me. I'm curious if anyone has struggled or overcame their own thinking and sought out something greater then themselves to find faith in?

 

[Rudy Schmidt]

You described my plight exactly. My wife is a lifelong Christian. I'd like to be the same, but here's how my train of thought goes:

- To be a Christian, you have to believe that Jesus died for your sins
- To believe that, you have to believe he was the Son of God
- To believe that, you have to believe in the miracles he performed (mainly coming back from the dead)
- I think "okay, maybe he could come back because he was really in a deep trance or coma"
- Then I think "but if that's the case, it wasn't really a miracle, and doesn't prove he was the Son of God."

I understand that "faith" means to believe something despite logic or proof, but it's something I have trouble with. Not that I wouldn't like to be "faithful", or that I don't try, it just is hard for me.

Anyone else's take on this would be welcome.

 

[Mia]

That's where I've been for much of my adult life, I greatly embraced the idea that there is nothing at all. Most ideas are based on an afterlife of some sort, that we spend our time here doing things for the afterlife. I don't think there is anything afterwards, logically I have no proof of what might happen later. So, the only spiritual center I look for and understand is in myself. This is all I know to be concretely true for myself.

 

[metalminx24]

People can do terrible things and pin them on 'faith' or 'spirituality'. I would urge you to watch "The World's Worst Place To Be Disabled?" It's on BBC iPlayer at the moment.

Instead of looking elsewhere, rely on yourself to do good things, be proud of things you achieve rather than looking for something else to attribute them to. If you need something to have faith in, make it humanity.

 

[Warmheart]

It is logical to know that there exist things which we are not able to measure.
"Love" is an example.
"My daughter loves me."
"Can you prove it?"
"She says she loves me."
"People can lie."
"Yes, but she hugs me, kisses me."
"One can hug and kiss someone one does not love."
"Well, I KNOW she loves me."
"Really, how do you know?"
"I can feel it!"

Love exists, yet it cannot be measured, proven, quantified scientifically.
Love heals.
Love is all around you.
Love is within you.
Love transcends species.
Love binds you to others, even when they have passed.

Just a consideration.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I'm trying to find some more spirituality in my life (not religion just something greater the myself). I've tried in the past and frequently run into the issue of logic outweighing spiritual faith and I inevitably give up trying and continue to bump along in the dark that is life, with nothing other then my twisted views on the world to help guide me. I'm curious if anyone has struggled or overcame their own thinking and sought out something greater then themselves to find faith in?

In the end, I didn't find there to be any contradiction between logic and faith.

 

[Nisk]

I like the analogy of love to explain the unknown parts of life, especially when it is in reference to a child.

 

[Suzanne]

Yes, I was like this at one time. I was raised a catholic and it just totally confused me. Was Jesus God or the son of God? I only had a bit of teaching regarding the christian Greek scriptures, that are known as the New Testament. Never owned a bible, but had prayer books.

Stopped going to church at 15 and it was around 18 when I decided that I could not cope any more with this "faith for old people", as that is how I viewed it, since I never saw ones my age; just surrounded by old ones.

Two people knocked on my door one day and from that moment, I stopped searching and now, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and my faith helps me so much and funnily enough, one area where my aspie traits are pretty controlled ie in understanding scriptures.

This is the tricky part and just hope it is just within the guidelines, but perhaps it isn't! What the bible actually teaches is very logical! I am a woman of logic and so it vastly appeals to my sense of things.

The trouble with reading the bible, or at least parts of it, is not reading it has the book of God and thus, the amazing things one reads, find it hard to equate to reality.

Romans 5:12 states why we are imperfect.

Romans 6:23 states Jesus' role.

He is not God but the son of God. God just is too big for our earth and too bright, since He did create the sun!

Anyway, I best stop there, but if you are interested, you can imbox me or email me, which I will give if you imbox me.

The thing is, you see, I know certain things about the bible and so, feel a desire to share and thus, it gets frustrating when I cannot share it!

 

[qwerty]

It is logical to know that there exist things which we are not able to measure.
"Love" is an example.
"My daughter loves me."
"Can you prove it?"
"She says she loves me."
"People can lie."
"Yes, but she hugs me, kisses me."
"One can hug and kiss someone one does not love."
"Well, I KNOW she loves me."
"Really, how do you know?"
"I can feel it!"

Love exists, yet it cannot be measured, proven, quantified scientifically.
Love heals.
Love is all around you.
Love is within you.
Love transcends species.
Love binds you to others, even when they have passed.

Just a consideration.

You are just awesome Warmheart
Any post i could make would just be a withered version of yours, sublime

 

[MEDL86]

I'm trying to find some more spirituality in my life (not religion just something greater the myself). I've tried in the past and frequently run into the issue of logic outweighing spiritual faith and I inevitably give up trying and continue to bump along in the dark that is life, with nothing other then my twisted views on the world to help guide me. I'm curious if anyone has struggled or overcame their own thinking and sought out something greater then themselves to find faith in?

It's a rather common issue that people inevitably couple the concept of faith with "illogical thinking", as if faith and logic have no common ground and never interact. The simple truth is, faith and logic are not opposites, but rather two separate aspects of the same principle.
Let's define both terms:
Logic: A concept of thinking that allows one to deduce a concept/idea, and form an opinion.

Faith: The hope that something will happen, or the expectation that it will. This is not limited by anything, but rather expands into everything, even your day-by-day routine.

Example: Logically, you know that a day is fairly random, with the stipulation that you go about life in your own way. And yet, you wouldn't be able to help yourself but to have faith that the day will either be good, bad, or indifferent. No matter how hard you try, you can't get rid of faith.

Applying it to a spiritual aspect in life, you either believe that there is something beyond yourself, or you don't, but either way, you have faith in your belief because it's what you expect the truth to be.

Spirituality can't be forced into your life, it doesn't work that way, but you can take some comfort in knowing that faith, as a concept, is always a part of your life, whether you want it there or not.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I frustrate people in my life from being so logical and analytical. But I have a lifelong faith as well, that has survived despite (or thrived because of?) long-term history of child abuse (including spiritual abuse), struggle with infertility, two miscarriages, and countless bouts of deep depression and PTSD. I've tried to stop believing in God, but I can't. I think for me, it has to do with some aspect of humility. In my mind, there is no way human logic completely defines reality. It's not logical.

So my faith, in agreement with my logic, says there's something bigger. And the major world religions tend to agree that this Something is Love, often called "God."

For me, the ultimate expression of God's love for us exists in the story of Jesus. Forget about trying to make yourself believe this miracle or that miracle--Jesus himself said that even the demons believe those things, but that's not what matters. (Which I think could be loosely translated into, "Reality is reality whether we believe it or not.")

In the person of Jesus, Love says, "I will never leave you nor forsake you. You are my heart's desire, no matter how you treat me, no matter how far you run, no matter if you don't believe everything or anything I've told you. I will always love you, and I will always be near you. But...I won't force myself on you. I treasure your freedom, and I will wait for you to choose me."

That doesn't seem logical, but when it comes right down to what matters in life...for me, it's the only logic that survives life's challenges.

Jesus is the most personal, the most authentic, the most vulnerable, the most loving God of all the stories I've ever heard.

Sooo many people have used the Jesus icon for their own purposes, for things not love. But that doesn't mean Jesus isn't love. Evil counterfeits and tries to undermine what is truly true and powerful. If evil wasn't trying to subvert Jesus's message...that's when I would be concerned that my faith is misplaced.

Lately I've been questioning the details of my faith to much, much greater depths than ever before (and I've always been a questioner, so that's saying a lot). But there are three foundational truths I've not been able to stop believing, even with all my questioning: God is real. God is good. God loves me. My response: I want a relationship with this God. I don't care what it looks like, so long as it's real.

I believe the Bible because God says it's true, but I also recognize that his definition of "truth" is different than mine, so there are details I've spun in ways that fall apart like a house of cards when put to the test. But the overall story of the Bible...that God sent his Son to conquer death so that I can live...there's nothing else worth believing in if that isn't true.

 

[Judge]

I'm trying to find some more spirituality in my life (not religion just something greater the myself). I've tried in the past and frequently run into the issue of logic outweighing spiritual faith and I inevitably give up trying and continue to bump along in the dark that is life, with nothing other then my twisted views on the world to help guide me. I'm curious if anyone has struggled or overcame their own thinking and sought out something greater then themselves to find faith in?

Faith alone doesn't drive my spiritual beliefs. They are driven by two unsolicited paranormal experiences over a period of 20 years. They profoundly changed how I see the world I live in, once I finally deduced with logic that they actually occurred. I have profound spiritual views...and yet no want or need of religion or its fellowship.

I suppose the only "struggle" in my case was my own sense of denial for those years in between the first and second experience. But also it helped that the paranormal came out of the closet for many people around the turn of the century. I discovered countless lucid people out there with similar experiences. But I still approach such things with caution, ready to try to debunk them with logic and deduction.

Yet this is something I cannot "export"- or even advocate. I can only elaborate what I consider to be my own truth. Yet in my own case I wasn't even looking! I certainly don't have all the answers for everything as some religions claim, but I feel I understand some of the most important aspects of our existence on this plane of existence. And that most often what happens to us happens by design, crafted in fact by our own souls.

That we are eternal beings, who have come here to learn and experience things which are not native to our primary existence. That we don't die or "go to heaven". That in fact, we came from there. We're just visiting here. And that bad things happen to good people more often than not because they're supposed to with great cosmic reason.

 

[NateSean]

For me, there are just times when it's better to believe that there is a grand scheme to all of this. That there are beings of higher consciousness, whatever you prefer to call them, who can and do choose to help you when you need them.

Personally, I have never identified as one religion or the other, but I do consider myself to be something of a pagan. I pray, both internally and outwardly at times, which does help quite a bit, so long as I recognize that I am still responsible for my own actions and consequences down here on Earth. I don't want to go into full blown lecture mode about my spirituality, but I hope throwing in my two cents gives you something to think about in regards to your own attempt at finding faith.

 

[Nisk]

This is a great thread and very helpful thanks to those who have contributed

 

[BigTimber]

Have you looked into something like Humanism or secular Buddhism? You don't necessarily have to believe in a deity to have some sort of belief system. There's a bunch of secular philosophies out there. Just have to search for the right one that fits.

 

[zurb]

Faith has to be based on logic. Faith is because of logic, not contrary to it. The faith you have that a chair will support you is based on your knowledge of its materials and construction, as well as your past experience. Any 'faith system' also has to be logical.
The amount of faith doesn't affect the outcome, but the journey. Two people get on a plane. One has only just enough faith to board it. The other is very confident. They both arrive at the other end at the same time, but the one with more faith enjoys the journey much more. Greater faith is gained by gaining knowledge and experience.
FWIW, I am a christian.

 

[wyverary]

I agree that you might like secular humanism..."The Good Book" by AC Grayling is worth a look, if you are into spirituality but are unsure if faith is *precisely* what you are looking for. And if you are, in fact, interested in a Christian perspective, you probably can't do better than C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity." There are plenty of other volumes, which I can't think of at the moment but other members can probably suggest.

 

[camerartus]

You are just awesome Warmheart
Any post i could make would just be a withered version of yours, sublime

Yes, she is. If she lived in Texas...

 

[Maelstrom]

I'm trying to find some more spirituality in my life (not religion just something greater the myself). I've tried in the past and frequently run into the issue of logic outweighing spiritual faith and I inevitably give up trying and continue to bump along in the dark that is life, with nothing other then my twisted views on the world to help guide me. I'm curious if anyone has struggled or overcame their own thinking and sought out something greater then themselves to find faith in?

Yes it took years, but I reject the notion that logic and faith are incompatible utterly....but then my God isn't based on arbitrariness but rather natural law.

Natural law is not very popular as it doesn't bend well for men's convenience.

And convenience is the black well from which flows all of the confusion around God.

 

[Nisk]

Yes it took years, but I reject the notion that logic and faith are incompatible utterly....but then my God isn't based on arbitrariness but rather natural law.

Natural law is not very popular as it doesn't bend well for men's convenience.

And convenience is the black well from which flows all of the confusion around God.

Sounds interesting