How worried should I be about brain implants?

[Ya Boi]

My brother brought up today how someone got Elon Musk's implant installed and it didn't sit well with me. The idea of having a computer chip in your brain really disturbs me. A big part of it does have to do with the inhibitor chips in The Clone Wars and thinking they'll be like those. Another part of me is worried about how it would affect society. Would we become so reliant on them that having one is pretty much mandatory for everyday life? What would that world look like? I'm not sure how worried I should be because I don't know what will happen. Maybe only people with disabilities who really need them use them, maybe they go mainstream and everyone gets them, maybe they go mainstream but most people don't get them, or we end up in a dystopian society. What are your thoughts? How worried should I be?

 

[jsilver256]

IIRC, Neuralink said they would get up to 1000 people in 2026. That’s still a very small number - well within the realm of people whose quality of life would be drastically improved by it (ALS and such). You are in the majority feeling this way. I would not stress over it.

 

[Au Naturel]

If you don't get one, you don't need to worry at all.

 

[All-Rounder]

I never liked computer body parts (unless you're missing them) and even implants, why not just put on a headset instead of the surgery. From what I have seen that isn't too limited, like headsets that cure depression from the outside of the head\brain. I would like them to develop that more instead.

<"Imagine the joy of connecting with your loved ones, browsing the web or even playing games using only your thoughts," Neuralink said in its video, showing images of a smartphone seemingly connected to a person's mind.

Brain implant research has raised many questions, including whether (and where) humanity should draw the line in our integration with technology.

As the rush to embrace futuristic devices has built steam, people like Tristan Harris, a former Google employee who founded the Center for Humane Technology, have urged innovators to first analyze our present, including the damaging and addictive effects our phones can have on us.

"What got us into the present situation where our attention spans are 40 seconds on any computer screen?" Harris told NPR in 2019. "What got us there wasn't, 'Let's make our attention spans short.' What got us there was, 'Let's give ourselves superpowers.' And we didn't know ourselves well enough that when we gave ourselves superpowers, we debased our way of making attention.">

Although the prospects of these things treating movement debilitation sound great like some people can't type.

I have a very short endurance with game playing and it's a good part of my life with autism, it affects my eyes a lot so I could see the benefit of that but sleeping would become harder if I could access the laptop in less than a second. I would need to turn the chip off.

 

[FilterFreq]

or we end up in a dystopian society

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but that ship might've sailed a long time ago... depending on who you ask.

New technology helps improve the quality of life for a lot of people -- what's scarier is when you need something like this to save your life, but your insurance won't pay for it. That's the more common scenario people face with medical care, not necessarily getting things done to them against their will (in a medical setting).

Sometimes it's the more insidious things that actually end up mattering, but anxiety is a heck of a time.

 

[Shamar]

My brother brought up today how someone got Elon Musk's implant installed and it didn't sit well with me. The idea of having a computer chip in your brain really disturbs me. A big part of it does have to do with the inhibitor chips in The Clone Wars and thinking they'll be like those. Another part of me is worried about how it would affect society. Would we become so reliant on them that having one is pretty much mandatory for everyday life? What would that world look like? I'm not sure how worried I should be because I don't know what will happen. Maybe only people with disabilities who really need them use them, maybe they go mainstream and everyone gets them, maybe they go mainstream but most people don't get them, or we end up in a dystopian society. What are your thoughts? How worried should I be?

At this point, they are fairly primitive. The chip can read signals and activate external controls, much like using brain wave to control a graph. The difference is, the chips can control more, and control more easily. At this point, the chips cannot send signals back into the brain. That is where I would begin to get concerned. Being able to type letters on a screen or control a cursor simply by thinking would be a boon to many, especially, for example, quadriplegics. That seems to be the direction this technology is going. For now.

 

[TBRS1]

The world is full of stuff - some people want this & hate that, others hate this & want that.

Don't take anything being handed out or sold unless you want it.

I don't even have a phone. No use for it, and annoying. Who wants to be "accessable" twenty-four/seven? Some people do, but not me. Same for a brain implant...

 

[Neonatal RRT]

My brother brought up today how someone got Elon Musk's implant installed and it didn't sit well with me. The idea of having a computer chip in your brain really disturbs me. A big part of it does have to do with the inhibitor chips in The Clone Wars and thinking they'll be like those. Another part of me is worried about how it would affect society. Would we become so reliant on them that having one is pretty much mandatory for everyday life? What would that world look like? I'm not sure how worried I should be because I don't know what will happen. Maybe only people with disabilities who really need them use them, maybe they go mainstream and everyone gets them, maybe they go mainstream but most people don't get them, or we end up in a dystopian society. What are your thoughts? How worried should I be?

At this point, the current design is for medical purposes. It's experimental and being closely monitored. That said, and being altruistic, and being in the medical field myself, I believe the NeuraLink brain implant has the potential to significantly improve a lot of lives. As with any implantable device, and there are many out there already (medication pumps, heart pumps, pacemaker/defibrillators, etc), safety is the first priority, if for no other reason, the lawyers are quick to seek out any medical liability claims, not to mention the company's name and reputation being destroyed in the public realm. If any of these devices are remotely programmable, for example, pacemaker/defibrillators, I know for certain (my son was involved with this), the companies hire "white hat" hackers to try to access them, and if they can, make those security patches.

I know there are science fiction movies out there demonstrating how one can "plug in" their implantable device and have their brain access all the information on the internet. However, contrary to what the movies show (and Elon Musk has discussed this) is that the human brain is quite limited in its potential upload/download speed. We will, someday, have that ability, but I believe there will be a big difference between the expectation (as presented in science fiction) and the reality.

Trackable implantable devices come in many forms, but I do not foresee any population living within a free society to broadly accept them, even if presented as a "modern convenience" or as a matter of personal safety (like putting in a tracking chip on your pet). You're going to have a huge population that will reject them, so unless you're living in an authoritarian state that mandates it, I wouldn't concern myself with it. We already are being tracked all the time by supercomputers, so do know we already have given up our privacy years ago, whether you've accepted the terms or not. That said, we all have to reject authoritarianism, as this is a far larger threat to us all.

Awareness is good. Being skeptical is good. Just be careful not to go down some rabbit hole of delusion. At this point, unless you are a design engineer working on these products, I wouldn't take any information on the internet as truly accurate. Most, if not all, are designed for very limited applications and capabilities.

 

[TikvaBall]

11IF it would only be used as a medical device that would be a great thing. Unfortunately, there is a belief among strict Christians that a chip in your head is the mark of the beast, so there's going to be push back.

 

[Boogs]

The current challenge is to be able to get an interface to reliably respond to a brain impulse the user could generate at will (in some way to some degree).

The idea of being able to control or influence someone's mind is so far into future scifi/fantasy at our current levels, I honestly wouldn't worry about that side of things.

To my (limited) knowledge the state of the art in a chip influencing a brain is to send electrical signals that disrupt epileptic fits for those unfortunate people who suffer severe and life threatening epilepsy.

The idea of inhibitor chips et al are a long long way off, if even ever possible, and why would anyone go to all that trouble when a smart phone full of social media will work just as well if not better (and cheaper) when it comes to tracking and controlling most people?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

The current challenge is to be able to get an interface to reliably respond to a brain impulse the user could generate at will (in some way to some degree).

The idea of being able to control or influence someone's mind is so far into future scifi/fantasy at our current levels, I honestly wouldn't worry about that side of things.

To my (limited) knowledge the state of the art in a chip influencing a brain is to send electrical signals that disrupt epileptic fits for those unfortunate people who suffer severe and life threatening epilepsy.

The idea of inhibitor chips et al are a long long way off, if even ever possible, and why would anyone go to all that trouble when a smart phone full of social media will work just as well if not better (and cheaper) when it comes to tracking and controlling most people?

Epilepsy is one of the known applications for the NeuraLink implant. I don't think it is as far away from us as one may think. The implants and study protocols are in place. Participants are needed right now.

 

[Au Naturel]

11IF it would only be used as a medical device that would be a great thing. Unfortunately, there is a belief among strict Christians that a chip in your head is the mark of the beast, so there's going to be push back.

They are free to do so. Said the same thing about the Social Security number. Then, about credit cards. Then, about Gorbachev's birthmark on his forehead.

 

[Boogs]

Epilepsy is one of the known applications for the NeuraLink implant. I don't think it is as far away from us as one may think. The implants and study protocols are in place. Participants are needed right now.

In the UK recently, first of it's kind I believe, a young lad had in inter-cranial device to apply the electric pulses to minimise the fits. These techniques have been used previously, I believe, using induction instead of direct cerebral stimulation, but the equipment was hardly portable, while this new procedure has placed a miniaturised unit including rechargeable batteries, inside the skull's brain cavity, with a special set of earphones that hold a wireless recharger (so it recharges while he listens to music on the phones - and looks innocuous in public.
But this isn't brain/chip interfacing in the same way. It uses electronics to control the actual pulses, but the current is simply applied across two separated terminals on the brains surface.

My guess is the work being done commercially is mostly aimed at cyber extensions controlled by learnable nervous impulses. The medical applications are mostly the propaganda to support a technology that the tech firms would love to exploit - but I'm willing to bet it isn't the medical applications that are driving the investment right now, it's more immediate returns of far higher profits either directly or indirectly.

Personally I preferred the technique being used by one of Neurolink's competitors where they've developed a thin film chip that can simply sit on the surface of the brain, instead of a hard and rigid device. This thin film, which is also far less invasive in being applied (only a small slot cut in skull instead of a larger rectangular section needing to be removed along and a device needing to be hard wired into the brain itself), seemed a far more impressive, flexible, and less risky approach to me, but harder to bring to commercial release so more a long term investment (which is not Musk's finest ability, he seems far more focused on short term profiteering).

 

[Boogs]

there is a belief among strict Christians that a chip in your head is the mark of the beast, so there's going to be push back.

I have to wonder how they define that?
Is it because an unnatural device has been deliberately inserted into the body? Or is it just something inserted into the skull? Or is it only for devices that also use semiconductors? There seems so many ways to trash an argument like that. If it's just something unnatural in the body, would they accept being crippled for life to avoid a titanium brace to fix a broken leg? Do they think anyone who has had such treatment is inherently evil now?

Would inserting a permanent drain in the sinuses qualify as the work of the devil? If semiconductors are inherently evil do they avoid the use of all modern electronic devices and if they do how do they hear about these things?
Is sat nav the root of all demonic ill will, or does it only become evil if inserted in the body? Is the poor kid whose life has been immeasurably improved with an internal epileptic suppresser now a scion of Satan? Would they prefer to let their own child if of a similar condition, suffer awfully and die young for their irrational beliefs?

Sorry - don't mean to demean, but it makes me angry. <rant rant rave rave...>

People will believe anything these days without caring who else if effects - sheesh!

 

[AuAL]

Whatever tech you’re talking, I wouldn’t be an early adopter. (Unless the payoff was life-altering.) You only have one brain to play with.

 

[Boogs]

Whatever tech you’re talking, I wouldn’t be an early adopter. (Unless the payoff was life-altering.) You only have one brain to play with.

That's the lure.

But just like pharma industry profit less with drugs that cure illness rather than suppress symptoms, the tech industry isn't looking to make billions out the unfortunate few who could medically benefit - it's the excuse to make it palatable and popular for the public, while the work currently done is really just research into making devices that will have other benefits to the tech industry. How about not needing a mobile to engage with Twatter (formerly Twitter)?

If something along those lines (if maybe less functional) isn't what really creams Elon's jeans and makes all that investment worth trying, then I'll eat my hat! (fortunately I don't have a hat, but it's the thought that counts! ).

 

[Shamar]

That's the lure.

But just like pharma industry profit less with drugs that cure illness rather than suppress symptoms, the tech industry isn't looking to make billions out the unfortunate few who could medically benefit - it's the excuse to make it palatable and popular for the public, while the work currently done is really just research into making devices that will have other benefits to the tech industry. How about not needing a mobile to engage with Twatter (formerly Twitter)?

If something along those lines (if maybe less functional) isn't what really creams Elon's jeans and makes all that investment worth trying, then I'll eat my hat! (fortunately I don't have a hat, but it's the thought that counts! ).

I keep thinking "The President's Analyst" and the Cerebral Communicator. If you haven't seen it, do so.

 

[Boogs]

I keep thinking "The President's Analyst" and the Cerebral Communicator. If you haven't seen it, do so.

Thanks, but I don't enjoy watching TV and vid on the whole. I probably need a chip in my head to sort that out!