I Lost The Lot, And I Feel...

[Gomendosi]

So here's a thing, I had downloaded [Pirate] 6 whole seasons of a particular TV show I have been wanting to see when somebody asked me for a copy before they went back to Brisbane (hundreds of miles from where I live) and I happily complied one night after I had come home from work, while I was tired.
So I put the files on a USB for them but instead of Copy & Paste as I should have done I accidentally did a Cut & Paste. Which as you may know means that when I went to start watching them later that week they were not there, so I either have a long trip ahead of me or a lot of downloading to do LOL

I know that sometimes when I type a whole bunch in a post and then my computer eats the post I just want to chuck it out the window. Have you ever lost an entire post or blog, have you ever lost a lot of important work or files or whatever, how did it make you feel?

 

[King_Oni]

I have a few instances where this applies even;

- I was once working on a project. Still am working on it.

And thus far I managed to write a few pages of a story and I was working on some music that went with the project. Then at some point my harddrive crashed and it got all lost.

In the end I had to replace the harddrive, as I concluded it just stopped spinning, thus it was a mechanical failure. I also learned the importance of back-ups then. Though I wasn't in the project that deep yet (just a month or so in), it did bother me a bit.

Moving onward I figured I just start again and it took quite a different direction than what I was doing at first. So perhaps I took some motivation and fresh insights from the crash and a good reason to start again in a different direction, since I most likely wouldn't if I were to have things ready, since it feels more like a waste of time when I have something done and bin it, rather than start again after I lost something.

- I am however still quite annoyed over the fact that I don't have most of the demo recordings I did with a few bands once. I used to bring a recorder every week, thus we'd end up with a lot of recordings. Parts of songs, full songs and anything in between. The ones I have, I sometimes listen to again, but it's just not all tracks.

Mp3's in general were an issue for me in the past. So many great bands I stumbled upon and found some freebies of from their websites. Within 10 years some websites and/or bands don't even exist anymore and thus even when we're in a digital age, some files can be a rarity to come by.

- And let's not forget when you re-install your OS and you lost all your precious bookmarks (by now I know how to circumvent that loss; not to mention that Chrome saves bookmarks to your google/gmail account) and you have to accumulate said bookmarks again. Some sites I just stumbled upon and have no recollection of how I ended there, but the content was interesting enough. That's, probably, just like the project thing, a good way to clear out your browser and start again with new stuff rather than dwelling in the old.

When I lost things, and sometimes I removed things from my computer, I still tend to make it a sort of habit quickly to be like "this and that is stored there". only to figure out; "crap, I deleted/lost it"

 

[Ereth]

I'd feel sorry for you, Gomendosi, but I have problems with piracy. Perhaps you may consider it a dose of karma.

In cases like Oni's, where it's important work . . . that's different.

 

[apt-get]

I can only remember a couple of times that has happened to me. Once I did delete my /etc directory once (this contains a bunch of important configuration files on unix operating systems). I also happened to delete a bunch of important scripts related to my summer job, twice, one time in front of my boss/advisor.

I make regular backups, but both of my backup drives are older than my actual laptop.

I'd feel sorry for you, Gomendosi, but I have problems with piracy. Perhaps you may consider it a dose of karma.

Personally, I believe that when it comes to most mainstream media, piracy seems to be the only ethical way to acquire such media, should one want to do such a thing. I don't think that Gomendosi is in the wrong here. I don't want to derail the thread with a debate about this, as it is off-topic, and should you want to debate that with me, feel free to send me a private message. If not, no harm, no foul.

 

[Gomendosi]

I don't mind if this thread becomes a discussion about piracy as it pertains to media (any talk about Somalian pirates would be a much different thread)

In my opinion we are all pirates, if you own a VHS or DVD recorder, A cassette tape recorder, Set Top Box with HDD, TiVo or even a gramophone with wax rolls that can be recorded on. Up until very recently, I think in the last decade, it has been completely illegal, but not enforced, to record television on any known media or format, and 99% of folk know that.

So, just to inform anybody who may not know, there are legitimate ways to download shows from the companies that make them and the sites they release them to, iTunes for one, also there is a thing you may not be aware of called "public domain" (a small list of which is found here) where the controlling interest in a show on television has let the rights lapse for whatever reason (too numerous to mention here) and so the programs are perfectly legal for anybody to accrue and even sell, until the rights are purchased once again to the content and it is re-copyrighted.

Another thing people may not be aware of is that it is not illegal to own a digital copy of a program that you have a hard copy of (bought VHS, DVD or Blu-Ray) for private use.

Further to that, you may watch content from a lot of major networks on youtube (if you are in the right country), when you watch something on youtube it is downloaded to your computer and then when you have finished viewing it is deleted from you HDD, this is known as streaming, if you watch a television program on youtube that is not from the official broadcaster then you too are downloading it and therefore are doing something illegal.

Lastly, a lot of people responded when a producer blundered and admitted that they (TV producers) are actually happy with the public downloading their shows as it provides them with a monumental amount of free publicity they could never pay for, here is a link to a counter argument and retraction leading to some interesting thoughts.
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/tv/game-of-thrones-piracy-comment-rejected-by-hbo

Now, I put up a few things for you who are reading this to consider in relation to myself, I always buy hard copies of any show I have downloaded and liked, if it is available, I have an extensive collection of DVD's I will need to become immortal to ever watch all of. I have no plans to make money via distribution of this content and I am fine if they want to come and arrest me as the whole thing would be laughed out of court, when viewed in comparison to the myriad of actual piracy going on that costs them the real money. I limit myself to downloading shows that are in public domain and either not available in my country or that are not available on DVD yet, or ever.

Now how do you stack up when you sit at home and watch anything that isn't a home movie? and if you are watching a home movie has everybody involved in you little production given their full written consent hehehe

Oh yes, and in no way do I gloss over that I said I had given the show to someone, I can only say that in that instance I was trying to make a new friend. Enough said!





Some more interesting reading found here:

Where to LEGALLY download TV series??? - TV shows Where to legally download and keep shows from

Is anything on YouTube illegal? - Catholic Answers Forums A religious group discussing youtube allowing illegal content

free-to-air copping a download Newspaper article about TV being threatened by internet

Why isn't TiVo illegal The question isn't answered actually, but it is interesting

How Youre Breaking the Law Every Day (and What You Can Do About It) Very Informative

This last one is about the change to Aussie law about recording TV. It is finally legal to record TV or is it?

 

[Christy]

Gomendosi, you wouldn't steal a handbag... or would you? lol

My boss used to regularly delete reports or accidentally drag and drop them under a different folder, or her favourite... take a copy of a report someone is working on and start making edits to the second version. I was then charged with coming up with a procedure to prevent two versions of a report becoming active at once.

I came up with a simple file naming protocol and a few steps to make sure it didn't happen again. She read it and said to me "but that won't prevent me from taking a copy and having exactly the same problem." So I responded "well yes, but if you follow the procedure then that won't happen". Response "No, I need something that's fool-proof." :facepalm:

And they say the world revolves around an aspie. Go figure.

 

[Ehmagerd]

It used to be a problem for me on forums but I think now that the software is better, it doesn't really happen. Even if i click a link now, or if the post fails I can click back and the text is still here. Not easy to lose it. But I am still paranoid so if I'm writing a lot it gets copied into a text document.

IIRC I had a hdd failure 3 or 4 years ago, can't really remember. Oh, and when I was young and our family pc got a virus, the computer repair shop charged us $400 to re-install windows and not even recover my pictures (of a game I'd been screenshotting). That was before I knew how to pc, and it's really pathetic my parents could not and still haven't ever installed windows themselves.

Nearly every other time I've lost things it's because I've deleted them for different reasons and then regretted it later.

I pirate everything. I don't owe producers anything. Nearly always the price is too large. I have saved thousands of dollars. Although most of what I've pirated I wouldn't have ever payed for, so the money wasn't saved, really. I just have a free gift.

The last thing I payed for was music. I torrented two of his albums and payed for the third. $10. I did it because that was reasonable to me.

Art and knowledge should be free for everyone. Having people pay for it is immoral. I admire greatly those who offer their work for free but allow people to donate if they want to.

 

[Ereth]

At the risk of derailing the thread, in spite of Gomendosi's green light, I want to assure you and everyone that I didn't intend for my comment to be considered a personal attack on Gomendosi; I just have different views regarding media piracy.

Personally, I believe that when it comes to most mainstream media, piracy seems to be the only ethical way to acquire such media, should one want to do such a thing.

You can't say that and not give us a reason why, IMHO; please share your reasoning.

Another thing people may not be aware of is that it is not illegal to own a digital copy of a program that you have a hard copy of (bought VHS, DVD or Blu-Ray) for private use.

I don't claim to be an expert, but it's my understanding that owning a digital (ripped) copy of something you already own is legal only if that hard copy is in an obsolete format like VHS (because VHS players and tapes are no longer manufactured).

 

[Sparticus]

Sorry Gomendosi this happened to you. Total bummer dude & sounds like you lost a whole lot of sh*t. I lost so many posts the internet police never gave me a ticket "on well, he lost too many posts...let's cut him some slack..."

I've banged on my keyboard, smashed 2 GLARE SCREENS to bits...screamed, yelled & scared the crap out of one cat. Sorry bro.

So have you ever lost a lot of important work or files or whatever, how did it make you feel?

 

[apt-get]

You can't say that and not give us a reason why, IMHO; please share your reasoning.

Hollywood DRM software, the fact that big media are the major funders of the internet blacklist bills, the fact that record labels do not properly compensate artists (or compensate at all) and you are contributing to keep the system in place by giving the companies more money, the fact that big media companies refuse to provide open source clients for watching/listening media, etc...

I don't want to pay for that.

 

[Tarragon]

I pirate everything. I don't owe producers anything. Nearly always the price is too large. I have saved thousands of dollars. Although most of what I've pirated I wouldn't have ever payed for, so the money wasn't saved, really. I just have a free gift.

The last thing I payed for was music. I torrented two of his albums and payed for the third. $10. I did it because that was reasonable to me.

Art and knowledge should be free for everyone. Having people pay for it is immoral. I admire greatly those who offer their work for free but allow people to donate if they want to.

Where do I start??!!

you pirate everything? Well done, you haven't contributed anything to the business of producing art for people, just stole. most of the stuff you pirated you wouldn't pay for? Well, why bother pirating the stuff in first place if it's so rubbish it's worthless. Might as well sit and watch paint dry. Free gift? A gift is given, not stolen.

(pause for breath)

You torrented two whole albums (which cost money to produce) and paid for the third. And that was reasonable of you?! So, you paid a third of the total price the artist needs to continue working as an artist, which is perfectly reasonable? Do you have a job? would you like to get paid for only one day in three you go to work? Sounds reasonable doesn't it!

Art and Knowledge should be free for everyone? If you produce your own art and enjoy giving it for free then go for it. Lucy you having another means of supporting yourself while being so generous. Shame most people have bills to pay and need to earn money with their skills and dedication.

Having people pay for art and knowledge is immoral? Reall? So, knowledge is valueless is it? Art requires knowledge at some stage, and so art is also worthless? Why do you want any enrichment in your life because of then? Why pirate it at all? Have you nothing better to do (watching paint dry on a wall for example). Oh, just realised you expect artists to enrich your life for free. How are they going to eat? Do you expect the whole world to provide for your own personal pleasure?

Ah, I just realised that is how you must think. Which is why you pirate stuff.

Art and knowledge isn't worthless to society. You, on the other hand, do not contribute to society, art, knowledge or anything else I can think of as useful. You even clog up Internet access for others by streaming tons of stuff. I think it is you who are valueless. You, a self confessed proud-to-be-a-thief.

There, that's my response to your attitude. You aren't worth a cent to the rest of society.

 

[Warwick C]

I agree with you in some ways Tarragon. Would you wany to pay of the time the artist/musician had put in to create that album/painting. not just the recording time but the song writing, as well the rehearsals. You would find it far exceeds what they are getting paid, even if they are doing it for the love of it.

It only goes so far. You are lucky they do not charge the real costs in time/labour.

 

[King_Oni]

I'll chip in something people haven't mentioned before and is slightly connected to pirating and this modern form of entitlement.

I find it interesting to note that every game and every album costs roughly the same. It can't be possible be true that every album or videogame costs exactly the same.

For what it's worth the realistic pricetag for say... GTA V would maybe be 150 dollars rather than the 60. Yet people already scream bloody murder for being charged 60. People refuse to pay 60, a price that is probably already way below development costs. Yes, of course they'll sell millions and it'll make money. But X resources go in there, so why wouldn't it be realistic to put an actual pricetag on it rather than something that seems more in line with competition? Clearly it's because people have limited resources and will buy another game for 60 instead of 150, no matter how awesome your game is.

It might also be interesting to note that because of this a lot of "free-to-play" games are gaining more popularity.

Still makes me wonder that if people don't want to pay for a game, why don't they resort to these "free-to-play" games? Well.. I for one get more thrills out of the new Batman game rather than Farmville... but I also understand this comes at a price

 

[Judge]

I find it interesting to note that every game and every album costs roughly the same. It can't be possible be true that every album or videogame costs exactly the same.

For what it's worth the realistic pricetag for say... GTA V would maybe be 150 dollars rather than the 60. Yet people already scream bloody murder for being charged 60. People refuse to pay 60, a price that is probably already way below development costs. Yes, of course they'll sell millions and it'll make money.

Exactly. The overhead cost of licensing and developing software for proprietary OS formats is an expense carried by third-party software developers. Not consumers. Then factor in that both major console format manufacturers (Microsoft, Sony) operate these divisions at a loss and has for years.

It's not the consumers who balance all that red ink and never has been.

 

[apt-get]

Media piracy is not theft. It is not theft in either the legal sense or the practical sense. Media piracy is copying files. Theft would be moving files. Here is a good way to visualize piracy. Imagine if someone copied your car, and your original car is still intact and unmodified in any way.

For the record, digital information should be free, as it takes no non-trivial expenditure of resources to reproduce. If you would like to give artists money, then please do, but don't expect it to be an obligation. I have no problem with giving artists money, and I do, but I'm not going to pay for every copy of an album that I want to listen to. I think the best system would be a name-your-price system. It has been shown to work (see Radiohead) as a viable option. It would also be nice to have a system where artists signed to a label actually make money. From what I have looked into, the current system that the music industry doesn't pay artists well or sometimes even at all. Often, artists go into unrecoverable debt with their label. If I want to pay artists, but the system prevents my money from actually going to the artists, then why would I want to pay for music at all?

 

[apt-get]

Exactly. The overhead cost of licensing and developing software for proprietary OS formats is an expense carried by third-party software developers. Not consumers. Then factor in that both major console format manufacturers (Microsoft, Sony) operate these divisions at a loss and has for years.

It's not the consumers who balance all that red ink and never has been.

One thing about software that is worth mentioning is that it is possible to do the three things: not pirate for software, not pay for software, and have more useful software than one knows what to do with. The reason that this is possible is because there is an abundance of free and open source projects out there that use copyleft licenses, and the amount of software in existence like this is more than enough to fill an operating system that is useful to the average computer user. I have actually donated money to some open source projects that I like.