I need some advice

[TeraFuror]

Here's my situation. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment. In the other bedroom lives a couple. We share kitchen, living area and bathroom. In the bathroom, we keep our bathroom supplies. Recently, I discovered my toothbrush had a yellow-brown stain on the bristle end. I suspected one of them might have been childish and used it to clean the toilet because I've been neglecting to clean my bedroom. So, I bought 2 more, kept one in the bathroom and one in my bedroom. I've using the one I keep in the bedroom, and today I found brown stains on the new unused one in the bathroom as well as a plastic bag that honestly makes me think they may have shoved it up their ass and use it to cover all my bathroom supplies.

Both of my roommates are older than me, and neither will admit do doing things like this. One 'forgets' or ignores me, and the other one just gets mad at everything. Moving out is in the plans but I need to wait it out here for 4-6 months at least. How do I deal with these people and tell them to stop shoving my hygiene tools up their rectum without creating an unaccommodating living environment? They have full access to my stuff when I'm not here, and I don't want to make this worse.

 

[Suzanne]

This is rather difficult for me to answer, because anything to do with ablutions, turn me cold, but I cannot ignore your plea of help.

Must ask why you are there and all intense and purpose, at a disadvantage? Why do they have complete access to your things? Makes no sense at all to me and thus, really difficult to advise you. You see if they, bizarrely have access to everything, no matter how you hide things, which seems to defeat the object; how can you hide things if they are easy to get to?

You need to explain why you are in this situation, for us to have a chance of helping you.

 

[TeraFuror]

I had a situation a few years ago when my mom died of cancer and had to move out of my old apartment. These guys I played Dungeons and Dragons with offered their spare room and a 40/60 split on rent. That was really nice of them because one of them was a student. I thought they were nice people, but I feel like their just mean and angry.

 

[Suzanne]

Ok, get you know and wow, my heart goes out to you. What became of your father though?

If I were in your situation, I would get a lock for your bedroom door or if there is no area to put a lock, then buy yourself a safe and lock your things away, but one that needs a code and keep the key close to you at all times.

Sadly it appears they are taking advantage of you being an aspie and therefore, so glad that you are making plans to leave.

No point trying to reason with them and if you are anything like me, your mind will be blank and they will not take a blind bit of notice if you wrote a letter. Some people are cruel because they like being cruel.

 

[SignOfLazarus]

This is a sucky situation and it's really hard to not take it personally. But it's not personal- for them. They are simply being jerks and they could be jerks to anyone who is the third person for whatever reason they are being jerks to that person in your position.
It's uncomfortable and weird and bad anyway though right? I mean there isn't a lot you can do to make it worse, except not doing anything about the current situation.

I mean, you can start by keeping all your stuff in a caddy and bringing it to the bathroom to just avoid all of that.
But they will simply move onto other things.
Really the only way to deal with this- because moving isn't an option right now- is to change your frame of mind about it.
1-This is already a really uncomfortable and unpleasant situation. If you do/say nothing, and show that it really really bothers you, it is likely they will keep pushing and pushing and encroaching on your space.
2-This is about them sucking. Not about you. It's not about anything negative about you. it's about them as people.
3-They want something, and that's why they started doing this. Figure out what it is. It may be that they want you to move out - but there could be a specific reason. It may be that they found someone who will pay more rent- and that's why they want you to move out. I don't know if you are on a lease or what, but it is pretty difficult to legally have someone move, even if they are not on a lease.

If you don't already have one, get the landlord to install a lock on your door or do it yourself and say nothing to your roommates. If there weren't complete and blatant disregard and disrespect for you already, I wouldn't recommend this. But there is, and it may escalate.

I'm not sure how you split up household supplies, food, utilities, anything else in the apartment. I don't know what items you have in the common areas- what you brought into the apartment.

If you brought in any furniture, or electronics or anything at all they did not have it is something you can take away.
If you can't think of anything immediately, think about what seems to be important to them.

But definitely get a lock. Anyone who acts that immature won't think that destroying property is particularly serious.

...due to necessity, I've had to deal with my share of unpredictable roommates. It's not really a good time.

 

[Balkan1996]

Just ignore it...

Lock your doors when you leave and that's all you can do.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I don't know if he can lock his door - he said they have access to everything when he's gone. I, myself, would take it more seriously. People just don't do those kinds of things unless it is personal. Do you know that if they are doing what you think they are doing and you digest feces, you can get E. coli and it can make you extremely ill? That's what some food poisoning is caused from - people not washing their hands after going to the bathroom and small amounts of feces getting in the food when they touch it. E coli can even kill you.

I would stay away from them and if you can get a lock of some kind for your door then do that. Get a lockbox of some sort and keep all of your things in it. Then I would get out of there as soon as the chance shows itself.

Another thing I want to say is I've read some of these problems that you guys (Aspies) put up with and I just don't understand why. I'm talking about very bad treatment from other people that I can clearly see could be very dangerous situations, but Aspies can't see it or take things more lightly than I would. Is it because of being Aspie? And if it is, I sincerely worry about you guys not being able to see a bad situation when it is staring right at you and is completely obvious to me. I just want to say that if it is because you truly can't see a bad situation for what it really is, don't hesitate to ask me a question about any circumstance that is bothering you (even PM me if you want.) I will always give you a straight answer of how I see a situation. I'm thinking maybe NT's can understand situations more clearly than Aspies?

 

[Spiller]

That's a really terrible situation TeraFuror, I'm sorry for you!
I'd definitely get a lock for your door, then be vigilant and see what happens; if they're intent on tormenting you they'll just find another way to do so.
But I would personally carry my personal stuff in a bag and take it with me when I go out, if you have a car, keep everything in there - leave the old bathroom stuff where it is, then hopefully they won't realise and will just carry on with what they're already doing. In my experience, confronting them may well be met with denial and an increase in incidents. Also move out as soon as feasibly possible!

Another thing I want to say is I've read some of these problems that you guys (Aspies) put up with and I just don't understand why. I'm talking about very bad treatment from other people that I can clearly see could be very dangerous situations, but Aspies can't see it or take things more lightly than I would. Is it because of being Aspie? And if it is, I sincerely worry about you guys not being able to see a bad situation when it is staring right at you and is completely obvious to me. I just want to say that if it is because you truly can't see a bad situation for what it really is, don't hesitate to ask me a question about any circumstance that is bothering you (even PM me if you want.) I will always give you a straight answer of how I see a situation. I'm thinking maybe NT's can understand situations more clearly than Aspies?

I think, speaking for myself, I'm slow to see these problems and have been on the receiving end many times myself but, because I can't understand why someone would want to victimise me - I certainly wouldn't act in such a way toward anyone else - and as the behaviour is so difficult for me to comprehend, I find it difficult to come up with a timely response other than acting defensively (such as keeping my stuff with me) and putting up with it, even though it causes me great distress.
I lost a good promotion and pay rise once when a colleague gave me false information just before my interview, when I had no opportunity to verify it. In hindsight I realise that he and others just wanted to be mean for the sake of it; none of them were going for the same job, so all that was really in it for them was to have a laugh at the expense of the gullible guy.
I started my own solo business to escape such treatment while having to work with others but even so, still had any number of clients who got away without paying.. are naivety and non-violence Aspie traits I wonder?

 

[Tia Maria]

I agree with all the previous posters, what an awful situation & horrid roommates!

You say they may be upset over your unkept bedroom. The fact is that given the situation, you have every right to keep your bedroom messy & unkept, & it does not infringe upon them at all even if they feel it does.

There are a few caveats including if how you keep your room could cause property decay or damage, making the room less habitable in the future as this would impact their ability to bring in a replacement roommate should you leave, & they would also be eventually responsible for compensating the landlord for any damage.

The other caveats are if you your room smells badly as that would affect the other inhabitants, or are leaving garbage & old food items around as these could attract bugs & rodents & create an overall unhealthy living situation for everyone.

Assuming they are also renters who have more or less sublet this 2nd bedroom, I agree that you need to install a lock on your bedroom door & keep it locked whenever you are not there. Make sure it is something that cannot be breached in your absence.

Keep all your toiletry items in an inexpensive & portable basket, bucket or caddy; & keep them in your bedroom at all times except when in use in the bathroom.

Get a small compact refrigerator for your bedroom if you can afford it for your perishable & non-tamperproof food items.

Ignore them, & keep working your plan to move out.

As inconvenient & unfair as all this is, I think it's the only way to proceed so that you can be safe & feel comfortable over the next 4-6 months while you plan ahead for other living arrangements.

Next time you move into a place with multiple bedrooms, try to negotiate a per person rental split.

For instance in a two bedroom apartment with two people the norm would be a 50/50 rent split. Since there are two people in bedroom #1 they gave you a discounted split of 40/60 which was fair enough. But another way to look at it is that although two people are sharing bedroom #1 & a single person has bedroom #2 all to themselves - & this also assumes the bedrooms are of equal size & value - there are three people in total using all the common rooms, fridge & so on. So a 1/3 each split would be fair & very appropriate for everyone. (Again, room size & accommodations are important factors.)

It is not that you are over paying in your current situation, just something to consider for your next place. Sharing a place is a great way to cut expenses. You just need to find better people to live with because these two are LOSERS. Describing them as just JERKS seems too generous.

 

[Tia Maria]

.. are naivety and non-violence Aspie traits I wonder?

Spiller, how awful that someone would deliberately lead you astray as you seem to be such a wonderful & genuine human being. You certainly never deserved bad treatment & anyone who would treat you poorly or be unable to appreciate your kind & gentle nature would not be a person I would like or respect whatsoever.

Naivety as a common Aspie trait? To be perfectly frank & honest, from what I have gathered from delving deep through the AC site, I would say quite possibly yes. Although some seem to be less naive but more lacking in self-awareness (or maybe self delusion). I see some almost magical thinking as well. That might be chalked up to maturity levels. These are not criticisms just honest observations.

You personally seem mature & very self aware ... to the point of needing a self-esteem boost because you underestimate yourself & all your positive attributes & abilities. You seem especially kind & honest which are highly desirable traits. You don't seem to be naive as much as you are just very trusting & trustworthy, & I'm guessing that your Aspie brain then makes it difficult for you to "read" people & their intentions. Maybe people who are genuinely autistic or Aspergers may lack the 'gut feeling' or intuition that some people get from probably picking up on very slight physical & external cues.

Of course everyone needs to learn what 'boundaries' are between people ... meaning the appropriateness (i.e.; healthy versus unhealthy & dysfunctional human interaction) of invading another person's emotional & physical space. And people need to protect themselves.

But for someone Aspies, IMO it may be very practical to have one honest, reliable, intelligent & caring friend who also has good judgment to serve as their "touch stone" to help them evaluate & maneuver important situations & decisions.

Non-violence as a common or general Aspie trait? Hmmm, not sure about that one. That might make a good (new or revisited) topic for discussion.

 

[Spiller]

Thank you so much Tia Maria, if anyone can help me heal the past, it's you and all my understanding friends here on AC.. this stuff does accumulate in the psyche, don't it? Also seems to rather be the lot of many Aspies, I gather
Yep, self esteem is a big issue I'm working on.. it's like an onion, just when I think I've made progress I find there's a new layer of subaware negative thinking that's accrued over time that I wasn't previously aware of
But I think you've stated it exactly right in terms of how Aspies are open, honest and commensurately unable to read the intentions of others, I'm certainly cognizant, if not aware, of how blind I am to others' intentions.
Are these 'desirable' traits? I guess it depends on the company you're able to keep
I know AS/ASD's can have seemingly violent outbursts, but can they be violent simply for the sake of enjoying violence?

 

[Tia Maria]

Thank you so much Tia Maria, if anyone can help me heal the past, it's you and all my understanding friends here on AC.. this stuff does accumulate in the psyche, don't it? Also seems to rather be the lot of many Aspies, I gather
Yep, self esteem is a big issue I'm working on.. it's like an onion, just when I think I've made progress I find there's a new layer of subaware negative thinking that's accrued over time that I wasn't previously aware of
But I think you've stated it exactly right in terms of how Aspies are open, honest and commensurately unable to read the intentions of others, I'm certainly cognizant, if not aware, of how blind I am to others' intentions.
Are these 'desirable' traits? I guess it depends on the company you're able to keep
I know AS/ASD's can have seemingly violent outbursts, but can they be violent simply for the sake of enjoying violence?

You're welcome. PS - yes, they are desirable traits as long as you avoid the losers & jerks in life like these two roommates!

Good point, about the violent outbursts & meltdowns ... that they are not planned nor enjoyed.

I think only really disordered & evil people - I personally subscribe to there being good & evil in the world - take actual pleasure in violence. There are the others ... think thugs & common criminals ... who are indifferent & callous, not feeling anything, either pleasure or discomfort or guilt about committing violence or harming others.

There are examples of people on the autistic spectrum who have planned & carried out murderous rampages. So I would say that the capability of deliberately committing horrific violence is not entirely absent from the autie population. Although, & same with NTs, an underlying psych or personality disorder like sociopathy, psychopathy, or malignant narcissism usually exists.

Violence for the sake of violence (versus violence to protect or ensure one's own survival - & good judgment is a prerequisite to correctly determining that!!) may go against a healthy human psyche, both Autie/Aspie, NT & whatever.

PS - kind & honest people best avoid the violent types too. (Seriously!)
PSS - I always learn something good from you Spiller.

 

[Spiller]

losers, jerks, bullies, criminals, the vicious.. I only see conscious and unconscious people, rather than good and evil, Tia.
When one man can kill another man, woman or child for their own so called 'ideal', religious, racial, political or whatever, this is insanity.. by definition, the in-ability to be aware of ones own actions..
If mankind is capable of this, and they have proven over and again that they are, then mankind is insane!
Any court of law in the world would sentence a man to a life sentence for killing another, so why doesn't this apply to a group or government? Is a group, a nation, above morality?
Those that are aware, that are conscious of the effect of their actions, the outward and ongoing effect of their thoughts and feelings, are then incapable of such acts and are therefore sane - they are conscious of their effect upon those around them, upon the world. They would never dream of committing such an act and would feel the pain of even the thought of that action before they ever committed it!
D'ya know, I haven't been in a fight since I was at school.. I executed a Judo shoulder-throw on the only guy to ever throw a punch at me and it landed him in a ditch on the other side of a six foot fence.. and I have studiously avoided violent encounters since, for fear of seriously hurting someone.
Violence begets violence, and compassion encourages its like..
I live my life by the maxim of "Do unto others as you would be done by"

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

I don't know if he can lock his door - he said they have access to everything when he's gone. I, myself, would take it more seriously. People just don't do those kinds of things unless it is personal. Do you know that if they are doing what you think they are doing and you digest feces, you can get E. coli and it can make you extremely ill? That's what some food poisoning is caused from - people not washing their hands after going to the bathroom and small amounts of feces getting in the food when they touch it. E coli can even kill you.

I would stay away from them and if you can get a lock of some kind for your door then do that. Get a lockbox of some sort and keep all of your things in it. Then I would get out of there as soon as the chance shows itself.

Another thing I want to say is I've read some of these problems that you guys (Aspies) put up with and I just don't understand why. I'm talking about very bad treatment from other people that I can clearly see could be very dangerous situations, but Aspies can't see it or take things more lightly than I would. Is it because of being Aspie? And if it is, I sincerely worry about you guys not being able to see a bad situation when it is staring right at you and is completely obvious to me. I just want to say that if it is because you truly can't see a bad situation for what it really is, don't hesitate to ask me a question about any circumstance that is bothering you (even PM me if you want.) I will always give you a straight answer of how I see a situation. I'm thinking maybe NT's can understand situations more clearly than Aspies?

I don't think NT's see situations more clearly than aspies. What's different is the frame of reference, and how close someone is to the problem. It's very difficult to see your options when you're under stress and trying to live with more dominant animals than yourself.

EDIT: If anything's systematic about it, it's that systemic ill-treatment by having assumptions constantly challenged loosen our trust in our ability to be (and feel) confident about what's real. There is a lot of literature on this I can point you to if you want.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I don't think NT's see situations more clearly than aspies. What's different is the frame of reference, and how close someone is to the problem. It's very difficult to see your options when you're under stress and trying to live with more dominant animals than yourself.

EDIT: If anything's systematic about it, it's that systemic ill-treatment by having assumptions constantly challenged loosen our trust in our ability to be (and feel) confident about what's real. There is a lot of literature on this I can point you to if you want.

Yes! I love any extra info on Aspies! Thanks! I was going to ask you to PM me with it, but it could help others that read this thread too, so posting here where to look might be better.

 

[Tia Maria]

losers, jerks, bullies, criminals, the vicious.. I only see conscious and unconscious people, rather than good and evil, Tia.
When one man can kill another man, woman or child for their own so called 'ideal', religious, racial, political or whatever, this is insanity.. by definition, the in-ability to be aware of ones own actions..
If mankind is capable of this, and they have proven over and again that they are, then mankind is insane!
Any court of law in the world would sentence a man to a life sentence for killing another, so why doesn't this apply to a group or government? Is a group, a nation, above morality?
Those that are aware, that are conscious of the effect of their actions, the outward and ongoing effect of their thoughts and feelings, are then incapable of such acts and are therefore sane - they are conscious of their effect upon those around them, upon the world. They would never dream of committing such an act and would feel the pain of even the thought of that action before they ever committed it!
D'ya know, I haven't been in a fight since I was at school.. I executed a Judo shoulder-throw on the only guy to ever throw a punch at me and it landed him in a ditch on the other side of a six foot fence.. and I have studiously avoided violent encounters since, for fear of seriously hurting someone.
Violence begets violence, and compassion encourages its like..
I live my life by the maxim of "Do unto others as you would be done by"

Great thoughts Spiller. I have never been in a fight or ever struck/hit another person (or animal). I abhor violence. I don't like to even kill insects so avoid that as much as possible too. I have relocated an entire family of mice .... you would not want to know the creatures I have had close personal contact with!!!

One question, as I am curious. What are your thoughts about self defense? If someone was literally, undeniably, going to kill you, would you feel justified in killing them instead if that was the only way to ensure your personal survival? Signed, Grasshopper - that's an ant because there was no grasshopper emoji

 

[Spiller]

I know exactly what you mean about not killing animals.. I lived with a rat for six months that got trapped in my boat and didn't want to leave. I consequently developed an interest in humane rat traps and, at one point, had twelve assorted bins, pots, cages, see-saws and pivoting tubes arrayed in my modest living space.. I even tried baiting it with cannabis for a while, in the hope that it'd be easy to catch stoned; I think it developed a higher tolerance than me in the end
I've asked myself the self defence question and I think, in truth that I could protect myself and those I care for and a self defence class is on my list of 'Things to do' as it's been years since I practiced Judo, but I believe I have developed an ability to avoid trouble, in work and leisure.. I've had occasion to talk my way out of more than one unreasonable encounter, so maybe it's not just a case of "What would I do in this situation", but of developing an instinct for avoiding the occurrence of the situation in the first place. I've certainly seen many people step in to an argument or fight when I could plainly see ways to avoid it..
Can I toss that question right back at ya Tia?

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

Yes! I love any extra info on Aspies! Thanks! I was going to ask you to PM me with it, but it could help others that read this thread too, so posting here where to look might be better.

Extra? I'm a little confused by that, but OK.

So far my leading reference is still Loud Hands: autistic people, speaking. I put it in the Resources Section here. First-person essays, many less than five pages long, artwork, and just plain talk about what we feel, how we feel, how we're different; there really isn't a "we" that aspies can speak from, except at the very broadest sense of not being like 96% of the world. This book shows how that works, and what that means, with personal experience examples.

I found that book mindsaving. It exposed for the first time how the endless debilitating grind of hiding, recharging, getting found out, defending, and educating damages different kinds of neurodiverse people. It showed how because what we say "doesn't make sense" and doesn't fit in with the safe, known way of seeing the world, education doesn't happen unless the neurotypical also engage with effort, and so many don't--witness Autism Speaks. How do you teach color to someone who has been blind from birth? And how do you overcome feeling that the other guy is the nutcase with the problem about this "color" thing?

Both AS and NT have that problem with each other, I feel. How do you explain, for example, that Daylight Savings Time is bad because some of us--I, for one--am so photosensitive that I can and do tell time by the sun, generally within 10 minutes of what your watch says? DST screws up that ability and my circadian rhythms for weeks, AND my memory is much poorer than usual for a week, and every one of my routines happens at the wrong time and sets off other conditions. It isn't "just an hour." It's an abrupt shift to my relationship with the world through multiple senses.

That's one example.

I am reluctant to open a thread on this, because that can go bad in so many ways. I'm still quite angry over some things that happened a few weeks ago and how much effort I saw many people put into explaining aspiedom to no obvious useful outcome. One thing I would have found encouraging: if AS and NT people asked twice as many questions as they normally do about the other when they're trying to figure each other out. Another underused resource here is that one about conversations, and how presupposition is a terrifically harmful thing when you're trying to talk to somebody.

I've plowed through seven books on Asperger's Syndrome since November, and currently I'm paused on Asperger Syndrome in Adulthood: A Clinician's Guide. It's written by a trio that questions the wisdom of including Asperger's into one diagnostic category, explains the medical coding, and describes how doctors are getting around it to help those of us who need the diagnosis and may go without help because of it.

This doesn't mean I know it all. But it does mean that I have to overeducate myself, because I spend a lot of time with people who don't want to be educated at all if it means they have to question their assumptions about what humans are. Forgive me if I sound "aspergic." These are hard words.

I need to be quiet, because I can feel myself tensing up. I can't see what to delete, and I don't want to ignore the topic either.

G'night.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

It isn't "just an hour."

You'd be surprised (or maybe not) how many NT people say that Daylight Savings Time just really upsets their schedule. I'm like "What are you talking about dude? You stay up all hours partying on the weekends and one little hour throws you off?" I'm just really tired hearing people complain (not what you're talking about) about losing that one hour of sleep. Sometimes at work, these same people would even be late the next morning coming into work. And then these same people wonder why I try to keep the same schedule and stay up every night instead of switching around to a "day" person again. Lord, give me strength.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I'm still quite angry over some things that happened a few weeks ago and how much effort I saw many people put into explaining aspiedom to no obvious useful outcome.

Which thread are you speaking of, A4h? I still think you should start a thread.