Immune system controls social behavior

[Slim Jim]

Immune-system failure leads to social deficits

The researchers explain that a malfunctioning immune system may be responsible for “social deficits in numerous neurological and psychiatric disorders.

Why your immune system may control your social behavior « Kurzweil
Implications for autism-spectrum disorders and schizophrenia

The Gut-Brain-Immune Axis in Autism Spectrum Disorders: A State-of-Art Report
Front Psychiatry. 2021; 12: 755171.
Published online 2022 Feb 3

Hypotheses About the Microbiota-Driven Pathogenesis of Mental Disorders
If the gut microbiota is so deeply involved in the regulation of many physiological functions extending beyond the GI tract, the hypothesis that it might have a role also in shaping human behavior is probably not so surprising. There is a constantly growing body of scientific literature dealing with the implication of the gut-brain axis in the pathogenesis of mental disorders

 

[Raggamuffin]

Eat more Milkybars, play more snooker.

Perfect gut, brain harmony.

Ed

 

[Slim Jim]

I was a big fan of milky bars as a kid. So much so, It was pointed out to me, like I had a problem. They must have thought, "Oh there's goes the milky bar kid." I 'd eat them nearly everyday. I also liked playin 'pool. As a kid.

 

[Raggamuffin]

I'm 35 and I have a Milkybar problem. I buy quite a few "share bags" of Milkybar buttons per week.

I don't share though.



Ed

 

[Slim Jim]

Well, step 1 is admitting you have a problem. It isn’t easy, but admitting your powerlessness, allows you to break the cycle of sugar addiction that you’ve been stuck in. We believe that admitting you can’t control your desire to eat that soft sweet milk white chocolate, is a necessary first step on the path to recovery from this most deliciously evil and tasty temptation.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I still feel that the hypothesis has not moved from correlation to causation. Until that happens I remain skeptical. I'd look for something like Barry Marshall who ingested H. pylori to unequivocally demonstrate that such bacteria are the underlying cause of gastritis/ulcers.

 

[Richelle-H]

I feel this is nothing more than overreach supported by non-rigorous scientific mumbo jumbo. Once out of my early childhood, I have rarely been sick over the last 60 years, can't remember the last time I ran a fever. So if the microbia in my gut had compromised my immune system, I think I should have been catching a lot more grief from viral infection, more general overall health decline. Once again, groups of researchers looking to make a splash and tuned into looking for a possible cure or explanation for autism are off and running down a path that will ultimately not produce anything useful.

Just my 2 cent opinion.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I feel this is nothing more than overreach supported by non-rigorous scientific mumbo jumbo. Once out of my early childhood, I have rarely been sick over the last 60 years, can't remember the last time I ran a fever. So if the microbia in my gut had compromised my immune system, I think I should have been catching a lot more grief from viral infection, more general overall health decline. Once again, groups of researchers looking to make a splash and tuned into looking for a possible cure or explanation for autism are off and running down a path that will ultimately not produce anything useful.

Just my 2 cent opinion.

Well, the gut microbiome does train the immune system. How do you think we possess antigens to blood with markers we do not possess or been exposed to? Proven protective effects are quite interesting. However the article is significant overreach.

 

[Richelle-H]

I think this is just an offshoot of the belief that childhood vaccinations cause autism. That did not work out and some are still desperate to find a valid cause and from that a path to a cure. After all, they have to find something to validate themselves and their job.

I have nothing wrong with me that needs to be cured, modified, adjusted, or tweaked. I am who I am by virtue of my own choices and while my Asperger's may have colored some of those, for all that, I am healthy, well off, and enjoying what remains of the time left to me. That is why I generally pay no attention to this kind of speculation.

 

[Tom]

If you subscribe to the current prevalent theory that autism is the result of genetic variations/mutations it is hard to see how manipulating gut flora (Or is it fauna? I always get those two mixed up... don't want to introduce beavers) could have any curative potential. As far as treatment goes and mitigating symptoms there is a lot speculation but little to no scientific support in the form of controlled studies.

I think improving the 'health' of the digestive system might have potential in mitigating co-morbid symptoms, but again it is all speculation until it is proved out and would caution anyone against experimenting on themselves.

 

[Slim Jim]

The gut is actually the second brain. Most of the neurotransmitters in the body are manufactured in the gut. Microbiome is extremely important. Scientists continually investigating this area. It influences many things from propensity toward fat storage, mood, cancer risk, social behaviors.

 

[Richelle-H]

I think improving the 'health' of the digestive system might have potential in mitigating co-morbid symptoms, but again it is all speculation until it is proved out and would caution anyone against experimenting on themselves.

To late, I did a great deal of chemical experimentation on my brain in my late twenties and early thirties.

I believe that possibly rash search was more than beneficial in achieving a marked improvement in my people skills. But I do not advocate anyone actually trying some of the foolish things I did to break myself free from the incessant brain babble in my head.

 

[Tom]

To late, I did a great deal of chemical experimentation on my brain in my late twenties and early thirties.

I believe that possibly rash search was more than beneficial in achieving a marked improvement in my people skills. But I do not advocate anyone actually trying some of the foolish things I did to break myself free from the incessant brain babble in my head.

Yes that pesky brain babble can be annoying at times. But I think in my case it has been far more positive then negative. Like taming and harnessing wild horses to take me many interesting places in thought. Very much a useful stimulation when I can no longer physically go myself anywhere.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

The first article from 2016, and others into about 2020, ran with this theory that the gut-brain axis was significantly responsible for the neurotransmitter production and subsequent behavior. Although there is merit in this, there is some temptation to put too much emphasis on it,...as this is only part of the issue. Certainly, autism is prenatal in etiology,...in other words,...there is well-established autistic cerebral anatomy that contributes to an imbalance in neurotransmitters, oxidant-to-antioxidant imbalance, glial and astrocyte concentrations,...and immunological function,...affecting behavior. Surely, nutritional intake and the microbiome in the gut are interrelated,...and some autistics can be quite selective/restrictive in their diet,...affecting this microbiome,...and subsequent neurotransmitter production. But one must also understand the importance of the underlying anatomy of the autistic brain, that, in many ways may be a more important contributor.

Anecdotally, I have found that carbohydrates tend to worsen my symptoms,...and fats tend to make me think more clear. I have found taking a twice daily probiotic also helps. Eating too much at a sitting also causes my symptoms to worsen,...I believe this is due to insulin-related vasodilation resulting in cerebral vascular congestion and edema.

 

[Crossbreed]

Most people who pitch the "gut" basis for ASD hold that the whole spectrum is defective.
It is not consistent with the view that ASD1 is an expression of neurodiversity (not a defect)
and only the severe co-morbids of ASD2 & 3 can be considered defects.

I do believe that the immune system plays a role in said severe co-morbids, however.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Most people who pitch the "gut" basis for ASD hold that the whole spectrum is defective.

Yes. We have to be careful when we read scientific journal articles,...you have to dig into the details,...and when you do, you will find statistics,...and I've never read any journal article on any topic that demonstrated 100% of anything. The people that make claims like this are showing their ignorance in understanding the science. At best all you can say is that "some" or "most",...but never "all". Furthermore, it's been well-demonstrated that autism is a prenatal condition,...before the baby eats,...before there is an established microbiome. A fair percentage of newly born infants can be screened with some degree of accuracy for autism.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

I mostly go to Naturopathic doctors, and over the years several of them have told me that there are more dopamine receptors in your gut than in your brain. I totally believe that. I obtain so much pleasure from chocolate, you wouldn't believe it!

And a healthy gut means a healthy immune system. I take probiotics and drink kombucha, kefir, etc, to keep myself healthy.

 

[Richelle-H]

I obtain so much pleasure from chocolate, you wouldn't believe it!

Ohhhhh.... Chocolate! Never enough, and the darker the better.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

The gut is actually the second brain. Most of the neurotransmitters in the body are manufactured in the gut. Microbiome is extremely important. Scientists continually investigating this area. It influences many things from propensity toward fat storage, mood, cancer risk, social behaviors.

That makes no sense. Most neurotransmitters are synthesized from common cellular metabolites by enzymes expressed specifically in neurons using the transmitter. While manufactured in the cytoplasm the neurotransmitters are loaded into vesicles by specific transporters. Lots of citations for this. Your citations please.

 

[Slim Jim]

That makes no sense. Most neurotransmitters are synthesized from common cellular metabolites by enzymes expressed specifically in neurons using the transmitter. While manufactured in the cytoplasm the neurotransmitters are loaded into vesicles by specific transporters. Lots of citations for this. Your citations please.

It's something I read years, ago. Something to effect that 70% of all these neuro-chemicals are actually manufactured in the gut. (Hence: The second brain.)
Maybe It was only certain chemicals, I was reading about, not the total output.

Some quick search results.

A Second Brain: How microbes in your gut may affect your body and mind - Science in the News

Dopamine, serotonin, and GABA are all produced in the gut. 90% of your serotonin, 50% of your dopamine, and a percentage of GABA are all produced in your gut.
https://www.jakekastleman.com/post/how-neurotransmitters-are-made-dopamine-serotonin-gaba

Serotonin and Dopamine of course are very important neurotransmitters in psychology. Influencing social behaviors. Controlling reward centers of the brain. Regulating Mood.