interest in video enhancements?

[abby normal]

who here has a tv set with judder* reduction? that technology goes by various names per each individual tv set manufacturer, on my sony bravia it is called motionflow, what it does is take 24 frame-per-second film frame rate programs and upconverts them to 60 frames per second just like live video, it makes movies display smooth motion like they were shot on 60 frame video equipment rather than film cameras/projectors, i like the motion smoothness that results, no more of the jerky motion look of old film. some film purists love their judder and hate upconversion with a passion. what do you think?

*judder is a sniglet or portmanteau word that combines two or more words into one compound word, in this case it is a mixture of "jitter" and "shudder." judder psycho-visually resembles a shuddering jitteriness in telecine [film] video playback of moving on-screen objects esp. where 3:2 pulldown was not accomplished correctly.

 

[Slime_Punk]

Is it the same technology responsible for the soap opera effect? I can't stand that, honestly.

The only thing worse for me is when my PC or phone suddenly decides I need 'audio enhancements'.

 

[abby normal]

i love the soap opera effect as my nervous system is hardwired to find jerky motion magnified on a big screen to be nausea-inducing.

 

[Raggamuffin]

I'm very sensitive to framerate dips. In gaming it has ruined so many titles for me. I thought getting a new Xbox series X would make some games that were unplayable to me - work. Unfortunately a consistent framerate seems to have eluded the gaming world for a decade or more.

Never really watched a lot of TV - I tended to use a TV to plugin a console or my PC. I've noticed on my PC whilst using VLC media player - movies and TV shows aren't smooth either. Especially camera pans - I notice little blips and dips which make my brain fizz.

It's a shame. Mind you - I find immense relief when I do encounter a game where it runs smooth. I have a 160hz monitor, but I know with games there can often be a lot of fiddling to get things running smoothly.

For video playback on PC? On every monitor and every gaming PC build I've had - not once have I ever encountered truly smooth video playback.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong. But I'm a bit like CGI with how I am with framerate. I notice it immediately and it ruins the immersion.

Ed

 

[abby normal]

i would imagine that the film purists would not be on board with video games in general, as the high frame-rate motion would not have "character" to it, and in fact would frown upon the concept of "immersion" itself as opposed to clinical observation/analysis as one would regard any work of art.

 

[Misery]

Is it the same technology responsible for the soap opera effect? I can't stand that, honestly.

The only thing worse for me is when my PC or phone suddenly decides I need 'audio enhancements'.

I had to look that up to see what that is... I had sort of an idea, but had to be sure. So I saw a video with the Matrix bullet-time scene having that effect to it.

There's one comment on that video that put it well:

"Wow this was a wild episode of General Hospital"

And yeah that's basically all I could think of while watching it. Somehow it all just looks... really silly that way. I'm not even quite sure why.

Bugs the heck outta me.

Though I'm also the same one that gets really irritable if I cant turn off VSync in a game, so take that as you will.

 

[abby normal]

the tv set makers generally make a person turn the feature on rather than turn off, i had to go deep into my Sony's set-up menu to turn mine on. i first became aware of the feature on some Philips CRT sets in the early 2000s, and since then i became determined to have that on my own tv set.

 

[Slime_Punk]

the tv set makers generally make a person turn the feature on rather than turn off, i had to go deep into my Sony's set-up menu to turn mine on. i first became aware of the feature on some Philips CRT sets in the early 2000s, and since then i became determined to have that on my own tv set.

If you buy really cheap stuff (I do!), it's usually the exact opposite unfortunately. And that's if you're lucky enough to have an 'off' switch when you need it at all. Typically these are very sub-par versions, I might add. It's very possible that the smoothing you're using and the one that's eternally bound to my TV are completely different.

Cheaper gear = hardwired FX, compression, and all sorts of garbage labeled as 'enhancements' that you can't do anything about

 

[Judge]

Ah yes...on my Samsung they call it "Clear Motion Rate". Allowing me to somewhat control what happens between 24 and 30 frames per second. The difference between a film motion picture and a videotaped soap opera. And consistently perhaps the least amount of judder compared to running at 30 frames per second.

Most of the time I default to the "clear setting", which is a bit less than what you get with the "soap opera effect" at 30 frames per second. Something I admittedly like when watching something like a football game, but certainly not a movie or tv show.

Though the one pervasive problem I've always noticed at least with Samsung tvs is that weird "wake" that I see behind a moving object being simulatenously panned by the camera. Vertical lines that are somewhat visible as a result of this technology that attempts to mitigate the blurring effect of a 60Hz widescreen tv.

 

[Lysholm]

I just bought our first large TV (50" 4K) and it's a total crap shoot on whether or not the anti-judder setting helps or hurts what I'm watching. I held off getting a flat screen TV because I watch a lot of old shows like Little House, In the Heat of the Night, ALF, Night Rider, etc., and it makes no difference whether the anti-judder is on or off. But, sometimes it does make a difference, like Terminator 2 and Titanic are both unwatchable with the anti-judder off. Then live sports and talk shows look funny with anti-judder on, as does using the TV as a computer monitor.

Interestingly, I've found this large screen exacerbates judder whenever it's present in something. A lot of YouTube videos have tons of judder and I don't notice it near as much on my phone or our 24" kitchen TV, but it's super obvious on the big TV. Then shows I've never seen judder on before I've spotted with this big TV, such as several instances in BTTF Part 3. But, this is it's own two-edged sword, because I've spotted so many details in my favorite shows and films I've never seen before on smaller screens...so everywhere there's compromise.

Anyway, to answer your question I hate judder. Much of it is a sign of poorly crafted content - too many camera operators at every level are ignorant of judder and how to prevent it. However, some judder is unavoidable, like UK content being played on my U.S. TV will always be prone to judder because of the different electrical grids. Wamp.

 

[abby normal]

If you buy really cheap stuff (I do!), it's usually the exact opposite unfortunately. And that's if you're lucky enough to have an 'off' switch when you need it at all. Typically these are very sub-par versions, I might add. It's very possible that the smoothing you're using and the one that's eternally bound to my TV are completely different.

Cheaper gear = hardwired FX, compression, and all sorts of garbage labeled as 'enhancements' that you can't do anything about

the two extremes of performance are in the high-line samsung sets, and the higher line sony sets- samsung's clear-motion has the most soap opera effect [most effective at removing all traces of judder as well as most forgiving of poor 3:2 pulldown in telecine] but the sony set smooths 24 frame motion without imparting what most see at the "soap opera effect" - just the judder is gone without the dramatic sense of slick smoothness. i prefer the look of the samsung [it is better-implemented overall with fewer bugs] but the sony i got for cheap and it is so far reliable unlike the samsung sets, still working just as it did [so far] as the day it was made in 2007, 15 years and going. just like a japanese car.

 

[abby normal]

I just bought our first large TV (50" 4K) and it's a total crap shoot on whether or not the anti-judder setting helps or hurts what I'm watching. I held off getting a flat screen TV because I watch a lot of old shows like Little House, In the Heat of the Night, ALF, Night Rider, etc., and it makes no difference whether the anti-judder is on or off. But, sometimes it does make a difference, like Terminator 2 and Titanic are both unwatchable with the anti-judder off. Then live sports and talk shows look funny with anti-judder on, as does using the TV as a computer monitor.

Interestingly, I've found this large screen exacerbates judder whenever it's present in something. A lot of YouTube videos have tons of judder and I don't notice it near as much on my phone or our 24" kitchen TV, but it's super obvious on the big TV. Then shows I've never seen judder on before I've spotted with this big TV, such as several instances in BTTF Part 3. But, this is it's own two-edged sword, because I've spotted so many details in my favorite shows and films I've never seen before on smaller screens...so everywhere there's compromise.

Anyway, to answer your question I hate judder. Much of it is a sign of poorly crafted content - too many camera operators at every level are ignorant of judder and how to prevent it. However, some judder is unavoidable, like UK content being played on my U.S. TV will always be prone to judder because of the different electrical grids. Wamp.

big screen tv sets magnify everything. just like a magnifying glass.

 

[abby normal]

Ah yes...on my Samsung they call it "Clear Motion Rate". Allowing me to somewhat control what happens between 24 and 30 frames per second. The difference between a film motion picture and a videotaped soap opera. And consistently perhaps the least amount of judder compared to running at 30 frames per second.

Most of the time I default to the "clear setting", which is a bit less than what you get with the "soap opera effect" at 30 frames per second. Something I admittedly like when watching something like a football game, but certainly not a movie or tv show.

Though the one pervasive problem I've always noticed at least with Samsung tvs is that weird "wake" that I see behind a moving object being simulatenously panned by the camera. Vertical lines that are somewhat visible as a result of this technology that attempts to mitigate the blurring effect of a 60Hz widescreen tv.

your samsung's "clear motion rate" is sorta what my sony looks like.

 

[abby normal]

i am curious now, what do you all think of movies themselves that use high frame rate, such as the last Hobbit movie by peter jackson, or Gemini Man which was shot @ 120 frames per second, i saw that one and it is just like watching a video game, such clarity of motion in busy spots. one more movie that used high frame rate was Billy Lynn's Long Half-time Walk, but it was only used in the battle scenes.