Introductory Solar Power

[WhitewaterWoman]

Getting off the grid has always been a goal, but is out of reach for us at this time. Instead, I'd like to try connecting the two most useful electric appliances to solar to be used in particular when power is out due to, say, a hurricane.

I have read some posts here that indicate some of you know a lot about solar power. I'm hoping you can give me some tips. I understand the basics, but the details overwhelm me.

We have an electric pump for a well. When we don't have electricity, we don't have water. I also freeze a lot of food. During the last hurricane we lost probably a thousand dollars worth of food. So, solar powering the water pump and one freezer would be useful

Apparently we can use the pump and freezer we currently have which is currently on AC and the solar panels produced DC and we need some kind of inverter. Question: Does that inverter cause a loss of power? I see "solar freezers" for sale which apparently are set up for the DC solar power. Would that be better?

If we did get the pump and the freezer connected to solar, could they run on solar all year (pending availability of the sun). I understand we would need batteries to do this. Wouldn't that save, long term, on our electric bill (which is very high.)?

Thank you

 

[Magna]

I too would love to convert to solar. A few years ago I talked with a solar company but even after factoring in tax rebates, etc I would have been paying more overall for the solar than not. I can't afford to pay the additional cost purely on the basis of a matter of principal alone.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

That's why I am trying to go little by little. Last summer I stayed at a little "resort" on the Ottawa River and spoke extensively with the owner who also lived there. He had to repair and rebuild all the various buildings and almost everything was solar, although some was still propane. He just added solar units on his buildings as he could afford it.

It was a really neat place; buildings all from the 1920s or so.

Anyway, I thought, I can do that!

 

[AdamG]

A good inverter will have some losses, but so long as you have enough batteries that should not be an issue. DC appliances are more expensive, and more reliable, than AC if you want to go that route.
.
I'd go inverter so easy to expand later with more panels and batteries.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Getting off the grid has always been a goal, but is out of reach for us at this time. Instead, I'd like to try connecting the two most useful electric appliances to solar to be used in particular when power is out due to, say, a hurricane.

I have read some posts here that indicate some of you know a lot about solar power. I'm hoping you can give me some tips. I understand the basics, but the details overwhelm me.

We have an electric pump for a well. When we don't have electricity, we don't have water. I also freeze a lot of food. During the last hurricane we lost probably a thousand dollars worth of food. So, solar powering the water pump and one freezer would be useful

Apparently we can use the pump and freezer we currently have which is currently on AC and the solar panels produced DC and we need some kind of inverter. Question: Does that inverter cause a loss of power? I see "solar freezers" for sale which apparently are set up for the DC solar power. Would that be better?

If we did get the pump and the freezer connected to solar, could they run on solar all year (pending availability of the sun). I understand we would need batteries to do this. Wouldn't that save, long term, on our electric bill (which is very high.)?

Thank you

PM me. I have a full solar array on my roof since 2018, battery back-up, and electric cars.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I too would love to convert to solar. A few years ago I talked with a solar company but even after factoring in tax rebates, etc I would have been paying more overall for the solar than not. I can't afford to pay the additional cost purely on the basis of a matter of principal alone.

Exactly. A full solar energy system with a battery back-up, for most homes in the US, can be obtained for $0 down, and then put on a monthly payment. Each system is unique to the home and use case, so discussions regarding actual cost are not helpful. That said, once you've had an installer, or two, discuss the design and cost of the system, then you have to decide if it is going to financially benefit you, or not. No sense in paying $250/mo for 10 years on a system if your current electric bills are $150/mo. We didn't come out ahead on our system until we got our first electric car. We were consuming about $50/mo in electricity for the car, but because it was from our solar, it basically free, instead of $200-250/mo in gasoline and routine maintenance with our other vehicle. If you have a "fuel station" on your roof, I would suggest an EV for a daily commuter car, operate the car for "free", and you'll never have to go to a charging station unless you are doing a long road trip. So much more convenient and economical. My first EV was a 2018 Nissan Leaf that cost $27,000,...a lot less than the $38,000 2016 Toyota Tacoma I was driving prior, in fact, I walked out the door with the car, with cash in hand.

Transitioning to a solar energy system and an EV is NOT for everyone. It just depends upon your use case.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

first of all, build solar cookers.

i've done one using a small aquarium painted black, and lined with foil for reflection. You can really bake things in there on days with good solar intensity.

a friend and I have also used an old dish network satellite dish to fry food. It really works.

 

[Crossbreed]

@WhitewaterWoman, if you are just looking for backup power (rather than operational costs), we bought a whole-house backup generator. We bought the smallest unit to keep the furnace going in winter. (It is big enough to keep the fridge going, too, but replacing the food, otherwise, would have been less expensive.) Ours runs on NG, but they make propane models, too.
https://www.autismforums.com/threads/refrigerator-during-blackouts.36891/

 

[Shevek]

I agree that if you are into it for emergencies only, a fuel powered generator is the cheapest, most secure option. Hurricanes can be hard on solar panels, and on sunshine itself. Any solar system will be far more useful with a battery to de-couple charging and using times - for hurricane prep, you'd want a big battery, and you can have that without the solar panel. Yes, inverters cost a few percent of the power. You can get extremely efficient 12 v refrigerators built for off-grid use - you might want one just to reduce bills, as well as extend endurance sans power. Not cheap though. If you get panels, you need a charge controller, and a good one will get a lot more charge per panel, compensating for partial cloud, etc.

 

[Shevek]

PS - My bro-in-law went off to help a friend clean out his garage, and came home quite pleased to have been given a gasoline powered generator. My sister was of the opinion that junk had been moved to her garage, for temporary storage. That winter, there was a big ice storm, and that generator was all they had for themselves and three neighbours for six weeks. It takes a little bit of electricity to run most furnaces.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

When a Hurricane hits like Irma or Ian when many people lose power, we lose power for 7-10 days.

To buy enough propane to power our house for 10 days will cost $2000.00. With more and larger storms predicted, that is just too much money down the drain.

I want to invest that money in solar instead. A little at a time.

I’d like to set it up so that the panels can be taken down and stored during the actual storm.

Weather after a hurricane is generally sunny.

I understand we would need batteries to have electricity during times when the sun is not shining.

 

[Crossbreed]

(I like your idea of taking them down.)

Wind is still a big help, too.
If you are on the water, there are wave-based generators, too.
With the proper use of diodes, all three can feed into the same battery bank.

 

[Crossbreed]

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=hydroelectric+generator+for+home

 

[Shevek]

When a Hurricane hits like Irma or Ian when many people lose power, we lose power for 7-10 days.

To buy enough propane to power our house for 10 days will cost $2000.00. With more and larger storms predicted, that is just too much money down the drain.

I want to invest that money in solar instead. A little at a time.

I’d like to set it up so that the panels can be taken down and stored during the actual storm.

Weather after a hurricane is generally sunny.

I understand we would need batteries to have electricity during times when the sun is not shining.

Those numbers don't seem to add up for me. How many kwh is your monthly bill, and how much of that could be turned off without dire results? How many kwh do you want from the solar system for regular use? What about a gasoline powered generator for the emergencies?

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

So, I got a little mixed up with some of this. I will try to be more clear.

The impetus for getting started with solar is having something that would be useable when the power goes out for extended periods of time, BUT the end goal is to have the solar working year round.

So, for example, I would set up a freezer and/or the pump on solar and leave it on solar. In the event of a significant power outage, we would still have water and the food would not spoil.

The $2000 was for two hurricanes in one year. Which is not out of reasonable expectations. We've been here since 2009 and there have been three years with more than one hurricane affecting our area. The frequency and intensity of storms is forecast to increase due to climate change. Hurricanes develop over warm water in the Atlantic, which is what we have been getting more of.

The $1000 would cover all the electric to run us as if there were no power interruption. But before we could do that, we would have to install the whole house generator, the various connections, get a large propane tank and filling it would cost $2000 at current prices. Total price is about $10,000 to get it started. Then we would have to purchase more propane as it is used/needed.

I would rather use this money to invest in solar. Not that we have $10,000 to do this anyway, but we could start small with the solar and add onto it as we can.

 

[Shevek]

Why do you think that propane is the only suitable fuel, and that a full, permanent installation is the only option for emergency use? Also, if you'll give us the KWH needed, we could give you estimates for a full solar system.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Some things to consider:
1. Unless you are way out in some rural area, and the township allows it, you probably will not be "off-grid", in other words, most homes will be grid-tied. So having solar alone will do you no good unless you have a backup battery, to store the excess solar power to use during grid outages. One, PV panels only produce power when their is light shining on them, and more importantly, by law, PV panels have a safety switch on them so that when the grid goes down, so do your panels. This is to prevent back feeding into the grid and electrocuting line workers. This is where the battery comes in to play. If there is a battery, then, and only then, can a home operate independent of the grid in a "closed-loop" system.
2. You don't need solar panels in order to have a backup battery for your home. Can You Use Battery Storage If You Don't Have Solar Panels?.
3. If you are only interested in emergency, point-of-use power (solar, wind, battery, generator, etc.) for a few vital circuits, tie in your emergency power source to an emergency subpanel.
4. You can combine a small solar panel array + battery + small generator for your emergency system. A small generator can be electronically connected to your battery, so that when your battery drops to 20% state of charge, the generator turns on automatically, charges the battery to say, 90%, then shuts off. So, if you have a solar array, the generator will most likely be OFF during the day, as the sun will run be able to run the house/subpanel without depleting the battery, then when the sun goes down, the generator may run for a bit during the middle of the night. You can charge a battery pretty well with a small unit if it is a model that can be started electronically. Your installation team and electrician will be able to help you out with all of this.