Is this an example of theory of mind skills?

[Misty Avich]

When someone's telling someone something and they add a little lie, I know that they're adding a lie for a reason so I say nothing, even if they haven't explained why they're going to lie.

Like one time me and my husband had run out of money because I had been paid an hour less, but we were very short on money anyway and needed a loan (which we'll pay back once we get things sorted). So we decided to ask my aunt for a loan (only about £100), but as my husband was explaining the situation he said that I had been paid a day less, not an hour less. Something intuitively told me that he told that little lie to make it sound more valid, as if we'd said only an hour we both knew my aunt would think "well it was only an hour, why do you need a loan like this?" But he didn't tell me he was going to use that lie beforehand, but as soon as he said it to my aunt I immediately knew and kept my mouth shut, nodding in agreement.

Another example was today at work. I had to go to another building and I don't like going there on my own so my colleague asked the man who was driving me there to go in there with me. Then my colleague added that the boss said he had to, even though the boss hadn't, it was just my wishes, but I could tell my colleague said that to make it sound like the driver had to go with me whether he wanted to or not, so I kept my mouth shut, thinking that was good thinking.

Anyway, are these situations where an autistic person is likely to be honest and shout out "no, they only paid me an hour less" or "no, the boss didn't say that" without cottoning on to what the other person was thinking or why they'd said that?

 

[FayetheAspie]

I would definitely feel like I needed to correct the first example. With the second example, I might be debating to myself whether or not they had been told that they had to. I think my ASD and my religious beliefs tend to back each other up on wanting things to be true and accurate.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'd say that, yes, those are situations where an autistic person might typically not get the other person's unspoken intentions as fast as you did.
I'm generally very good at social stuff, but in those examples you describe, I might also have corrected the person. It happens usually when I'm tired or just not thinking too much.

An anecdote (to be fair, though, I had just had a meltdown, so my skills weren't at their highest): My partner and I were with a friend, and she was feeling low and not in the greatest mood. My partner asked her something factual which I knew the answer to - so I blurted it out straight away. He tried to ask her again and tried to insinuate to me to stop answering, but I didn't get it and kept answering his question because she kept thinking. Later, when the friend had left the room, he told me that he'd wanted her to answer, so that she would feel better about herself, and that he'd tried to get me to stop answering so that she could. It had never occurred to me that he wasn't actually looking for the answer, but that his question had a deeper purpose.
I felt pretty guilty about my obliviousness then. It might be a similar situation to the ones you described.

But, as I said, those things don't happen all the time. More when I'm tired or don't pay enough attention, or if it's about something I know much about and/or that's important to me. Then I tend to miss those unspoken hints.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

When someone's telling someone something and they add a little lie, I know that they're adding a lie for a reason so I say nothing, even if they haven't explained why they're going to lie.

Like one time me and my husband had run out of money because I had been paid an hour less, but we were very short on money anyway and needed a loan (which we'll pay back once we get things sorted). So we decided to ask my aunt for a loan (only about £100), but as my husband was explaining the situation he said that I had been paid a day less, not an hour less. Something intuitively told me that he told that little lie to make it sound more valid, as if we'd said only an hour we both knew my aunt would think "well it was only an hour, why do you need a loan like this?" But he didn't tell me he was going to use that lie beforehand, but as soon as he said it to my aunt I immediately knew and kept my mouth shut, nodding in agreement.

Another example was today at work. I had to go to another building and I don't like going there on my own so my colleague asked the man who was driving me there to go in there with me. Then my colleague added that the boss said he had to, even though the boss hadn't, it was just my wishes, but I could tell my colleague said that to make it sound like the driver had to go with me whether he wanted to or not, so I kept my mouth shut, thinking that was good thinking.

Anyway, are these situations where an autistic person is likely to be honest and shout out "no, they only paid me an hour less" or "no, the boss didn't say that" without cottoning on to what the other person was thinking or why they'd said that?

I would agree that, in general, honesty is the best choice, but your examples fit under the umbrella of "little white lies" or exaggerations to create an effect. In this case, some sort of convincing narrative.

 

[FayetheAspie]

If everyone goes around lying to each other for the sake of "convincing narrative," then how can anyone believe what someone else says. It sounds rather depressing to think that people have become so dishonest.

 

[Misty Avich]

Well I do get why people lie. Sometimes you just can't not, in some situations. A plausible white lie can sometimes make a situation easier with less explanations. Lies are okay if you're not hurting others. We all lie, sometimes to keep the peace.
Many Aspies online have said they prefer the truth even if it hurts them, then when you do let your hair down and say the truth they then get offended (even though your opinion that offended them wasn't even about them personally).

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Well I do get why people lie. Sometimes you just can't not, in some situations. A plausible white lie can sometimes make a situation easier with less explanations. Lies are okay if you're not hurting others. We all lie, sometimes to keep the peace.
Many Aspies online have said they prefer the truth even if it hurts them, then when you do let your hair down and say the truth they then get offended (even though your opinion that offended them wasn't even about them personally).

Sort of reminds me of that famous line from the movie A Few Good Men when Tom Cruise's character is cross examining Jack Nicholson's character in court. "You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!"

On one hand, it sure seems safe walking on eggshells trying not to offend people, but sometimes, in doing so, you end up not telling the truth. On the other hand, just being blunt, honest, and to the point can be quite offending to some. It's sort of the difference between someone who is good at indirect language and someone who speaks in direct language. Personally, sometimes, I don't have the communication skills to decipher indirect language, so I specifically ask them to speak directly, which they have some difficulty doing.

Human communication mixed in with social "appropriateness" and cultural nuance. Some can do it well; I am not one of those people.

 

[Misty Avich]

"You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!"

I can't handle the truth most of the time.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

If everyone goes around lying to each other for the sake of "convincing narrative," then how can anyone believe what someone else says. It sounds rather depressing to think that people have become so dishonest.

As I suggested earlier, the examples presented above fell under the "little white lie" category. I don't think "everyone" goes around lying to each other for the sake of a convincing narrative all the time, but rather in very specific circumstances, and I believe that some personality types are more likely to do this than others. There are a small percentage of people that are "habitual liars".

Furthermore, and somewhat related: The media, especially, those "opinion-editorial" (op-ed) articles that consume much of people's news feeds are very prone to bias, exaggeration, and a specific narrative. Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) "journalism" is pervasive, as well. Purposefully withholding information as well as promoting false narratives are simply part of our culture right now. There are a lot of "click-bait" headlines for the intellectually lazy. If you want the whole story, you really need to do all the research on a topic, including all the biases that are opposite of yours. Truth and facts are highly tied to perspective and context. You have to be intellectually curious and do your due diligence before settling on an opinion.

 

[Suzette]

I grew up in a family where "little white lies" were the norm. I abhorr little white lies.

Those little lies are simply manipulations to make the lie teller feel better and not have to do the hard work of taking a risk.
Everyone telling each other little lies you really don't know who to trust or what infomation is accurate.

And to the teller of lies, they know they can not be trusted and so always accuse you of lies because lying is what they expect. Or simply not trust you even if you are worthy of trust.

 

[Misty Avich]

Another example of theory of mind skills. Today a colleague at work had little packets of candy she'd had left over from Halloween and gave them out to people at work, including me. But she didn't have enough for one of the other colleagues, and said so. So automatically I put mine into my purse quickly in case they'd walk in, as I thought it might hurt their feelings if they knew they were left out (although they probably wouldn't really care but I still felt bad so that's why I put the candy away). It's not very nice being left out, I know that all too well.
Also I could sense a hint in her voice to put it away as she said "I didn't have enough for Jane" (not her real name).

I seem to come across these situations almost every day and it's never been a challenge for me to act on my theory of mind instincts. ADHD impulses are my only downfall but sometimes ADHD impulses can be a blessing when social intuition comes into play.

A bit like when my husband's daughter had bought him an expensive wallet for his birthday, and I knew he'd never used it as he was attached to his old wallet, so his new wallet was kept in the drawer. When we met his daughter she saw his old wallet when he'd got it out to pay for lunch, and asked why he wasn't using his new one. He said that he used it all the time and that today he just decided to use his old one. I just kept quiet because I knew that was what he wanted her to hear.
I did put my foot in it on a different money-related subject that same moment though, when his daughter started asking him if he could afford to pay for lunch, as we normally have no money but we had got some inheritance money then. I knew she had been worrying about our money situation, so I wanted to reassure her so I stupidly said "don't worry, we have about a thousand". I only said it because I didn't want her to worry about us. If she wasn't worried before then I probably wouldn't have felt the need to say it. Do you know what I mean? I wished I hadn't said that though, because I think he wanted to keep the money a secret, although I don't think secrets like that should be kept from close family. It's a bit bigger than a white lie. But I just had to say it to put her mind at rest, that's all.