DogwoodTree
Still here...
When people talk down to you, as if there's something WRONG with you and they have to treat you like you're fragile and, I don't know...a sick weakling or something...is that codependency, or something else?
I can understand treating someone that way if they really are unstable and have legitimate needs for extra care. But I'm more the kind of person who keeps my problems to myself (especially IRL, if not so much here), and I rarely, rarely, rarely show real emotion to people in my family. Mostly because they can't handle real emotions. I've learned over the decades to keep my feelings and most of my thoughts to myself.
So over the past year, I've been doing some deep self-discovery, and trying to be more true to myself, and get rid of some of the layers of false persona that I've usually hidden behind. But that's only been with some trusted advisors and close friends at church, not with my family members. With them I've been more withdrawn than usual, yes, but I've not revealed to them the depth, extent, or nature of my healing/recovery/discovery process this past year.
And perhaps that's sufficient to raise eyebrows and for them to wonder if "something's wrong"...but the way they keep digging and talking to me like I'm some kind of sick child who needs to be "fixed". It just feels so icky to me.
If you've not been around people like this, then maybe none of this will make sense to you. But my family members...they're either in a "one-up" or "one-down" relationship with nearly everyone they know. Either they're the "rescuer" or the "victim"...either they talk to the other person in a condescending voice ("I've got my life together...what's wrong with you so I can fix you") or in a whiny voice ("My life is so hard, it's your job to feel sorry for me and fix me if you can").
I know this, because I used to be the same way. And the more I pull away from it, the more clearly I see it in my family.
Over the past year, I've increasingly made a concerted effort, in nearly every conversation I have, to speak with the person as an equal. It's really only been in the past month or so that I've started to figure out how to do that somewhat consistently, but that means I've had a lot of time to observe what it does NOT look like, lol. When I'm talking to someone now, I'm not emotionally dumping on them or somehow, deep in my heart, trying to hold them accountable for my emotional state. And I'm not offering to take responsibility for their emotional state, either. This, to me, is a step towards freedom and recovery from codependency.
But when my family talks to me now, it's still either in a whiny voice ("my life sucks and somehow it's your fault") or a condescending voice ("you're really screwed up and you need me to fix you"). And yes, it goes back and forth with most of them (a couple of them stick with only one side or the other).
So is this codependency, or is there another word for it? Or maybe I'm judging where nothing has been done that's wrong?
It just feels so icky to me, I don't know how else to describe it. When I've fallen for the bait and started to share something of what's really going on inside my head, it has ALWAYS backfired. Always. Every single time (except with DH...not referring to him here at all). Private information gets spread throughout the family, or someone goes for a very long period of always talking down to me and treating me with kit gloves, or someone feels like they can push and push for more information than I really want to give.
Oh, for that matter...let me ask you about this. The other day I was at a business lunch with my mom, a sister, and a colleague. In the course of the discussion, Mom was trying to use an analogy to describe a situation where more efficiency was needed. Her example was, essentially, this: "So, for instance, in this conversation--if we could read each others' minds, we could reach conclusions and decisions and solutions more quickly. If I knew what you're thinking, those thoughts that you're holding back and not quite ready to share, we could zoom through the conversation and get to where we need to be."
Okay, I understand efficiency. I get it. But her statement made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end! Does her example give anyone else the willies?? Who does she think she is to suggest that life would be better if she had access to the thoughts a person (especially a business colleague!) wasn't sure they wanted to share?? What happened to privacy and boundaries? What happened to freedom of choice?
I understand that the real definition of codependency is the enabling of a person with some kind of addiction or mental problem, such as alcoholism or narcissism or whatever. But to me, codependency also seems to cover a clear disregard for personal, emotional, physical, financial boundaries. It's enmeshment. It's when one person's will is subject to another's without recourse. When I don't have the freedom to enforce a boundary in my life...that to me is the essence of codependency.
Am I off base? Is there some other word that would better describe this stuff?
I can understand treating someone that way if they really are unstable and have legitimate needs for extra care. But I'm more the kind of person who keeps my problems to myself (especially IRL, if not so much here), and I rarely, rarely, rarely show real emotion to people in my family. Mostly because they can't handle real emotions. I've learned over the decades to keep my feelings and most of my thoughts to myself.
So over the past year, I've been doing some deep self-discovery, and trying to be more true to myself, and get rid of some of the layers of false persona that I've usually hidden behind. But that's only been with some trusted advisors and close friends at church, not with my family members. With them I've been more withdrawn than usual, yes, but I've not revealed to them the depth, extent, or nature of my healing/recovery/discovery process this past year.
And perhaps that's sufficient to raise eyebrows and for them to wonder if "something's wrong"...but the way they keep digging and talking to me like I'm some kind of sick child who needs to be "fixed". It just feels so icky to me.
If you've not been around people like this, then maybe none of this will make sense to you. But my family members...they're either in a "one-up" or "one-down" relationship with nearly everyone they know. Either they're the "rescuer" or the "victim"...either they talk to the other person in a condescending voice ("I've got my life together...what's wrong with you so I can fix you") or in a whiny voice ("My life is so hard, it's your job to feel sorry for me and fix me if you can").
I know this, because I used to be the same way. And the more I pull away from it, the more clearly I see it in my family.
Over the past year, I've increasingly made a concerted effort, in nearly every conversation I have, to speak with the person as an equal. It's really only been in the past month or so that I've started to figure out how to do that somewhat consistently, but that means I've had a lot of time to observe what it does NOT look like, lol. When I'm talking to someone now, I'm not emotionally dumping on them or somehow, deep in my heart, trying to hold them accountable for my emotional state. And I'm not offering to take responsibility for their emotional state, either. This, to me, is a step towards freedom and recovery from codependency.
But when my family talks to me now, it's still either in a whiny voice ("my life sucks and somehow it's your fault") or a condescending voice ("you're really screwed up and you need me to fix you"). And yes, it goes back and forth with most of them (a couple of them stick with only one side or the other).
So is this codependency, or is there another word for it? Or maybe I'm judging where nothing has been done that's wrong?
It just feels so icky to me, I don't know how else to describe it. When I've fallen for the bait and started to share something of what's really going on inside my head, it has ALWAYS backfired. Always. Every single time (except with DH...not referring to him here at all). Private information gets spread throughout the family, or someone goes for a very long period of always talking down to me and treating me with kit gloves, or someone feels like they can push and push for more information than I really want to give.
Oh, for that matter...let me ask you about this. The other day I was at a business lunch with my mom, a sister, and a colleague. In the course of the discussion, Mom was trying to use an analogy to describe a situation where more efficiency was needed. Her example was, essentially, this: "So, for instance, in this conversation--if we could read each others' minds, we could reach conclusions and decisions and solutions more quickly. If I knew what you're thinking, those thoughts that you're holding back and not quite ready to share, we could zoom through the conversation and get to where we need to be."
Okay, I understand efficiency. I get it. But her statement made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end! Does her example give anyone else the willies?? Who does she think she is to suggest that life would be better if she had access to the thoughts a person (especially a business colleague!) wasn't sure they wanted to share?? What happened to privacy and boundaries? What happened to freedom of choice?
I understand that the real definition of codependency is the enabling of a person with some kind of addiction or mental problem, such as alcoholism or narcissism or whatever. But to me, codependency also seems to cover a clear disregard for personal, emotional, physical, financial boundaries. It's enmeshment. It's when one person's will is subject to another's without recourse. When I don't have the freedom to enforce a boundary in my life...that to me is the essence of codependency.
Am I off base? Is there some other word that would better describe this stuff?
