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Is this social anxiety? I used to think it was just introversion and autism...

AuroraBorealis

AuuuuuDHD
Hi, I have some things I thought were just me being introverted. But recently (and after watching a few videos and contemplating a bit), I thought that they might actually be more social anxiety. I scored really high on some more serious social anxiety quizzes I did online. I thought that's just a personality thing, but it's got me thinking and I'd be happy about some opinions.

I always had big problems with what others might think of me. I grew up with a loving but very judgmental family, which might have added to it. I got made fun of often for behaving "weirdly", of walking weirdly, of sitting "wrong", of having facial tics when I got nervous, of being "too sensitive" when I started crying as soon as someone raised their voice at someone, of being unvoluntarily blunt or rude when I was tired or annoyed. I never had problems with bullying in school, thank god, I think my class had an unusual amount of "weird" people (nerdy people who in retrospect might be NDs), so everyone was more accepting than what I hear from others. I have always been a very shy child, hiding behind everyone, I hated children summer camps and such, both because I was shy as well as because I didn't know how to connect to the other kids and always felt like an outsider. I have not done a lot of things in my life because I didn't want to expose myself to people's reactions (like travelling somewhere unusual when I was younger).

I have spent my life until now constantly worried what people might think of me. I can't handle someone being upset because of something I've done. I'm really nervous when I have an appointment with someone I don't know, or where I don't know what's going to be expected of me. I absolutely hate making phone calls to people I don't know, I would always prefer to write several e-mails to making one phone call. Public speaking and presentations are my nightmare. At such rounds where everyone is supposed to present themselves and "say 3 things about yourself" or something like that, I'll get more flustered the closer it gets to me and I blush the second I'm up. I'd never complain at a restaurant if the food was bad. I hate showing up for the first time at a group where I've never been to, like a new sports class or some club, both because of the people, as well as because I don't know how it's supposed to go and how I'm supposed to behave and I think the others will think I'm weird because of it. Although I love being alone, I hate going alone to a restaurant because I feel so self-conscious.

I don't feel like it really disturbs my life or anything, but it creates quite some baseline anxiety in me. I never considered being socially anxious, I just thought I'm introverted and, well, autistic. But I've come to realize that this constant worrying about what people might think is really neither of those two, but something else. Like, introversion just means that I find being with people draining, and autism means that I find it hard sometimes to understand what people mean, and that I am "too" blunt sometimes (really broken down to basics). And my autistic characteristics have led to frequent experiences of being called weird by my family when I was young. Still, it doesn't explain these feelings.
What do you think? And how do you experience it?

I know, you don't need to label everything. But label actually help me (yay, categorizing...), so yeah.

(Please don't just write that I should "just care less about what other people think". I appreciate it, but I have told myself this about a million times.)
 
Please don't just write that I should "just care less about what other people think"
Ultimately this is what you will have to do. It's not as easy as that statement suggests though. You don't just turn off caring like a switch.

Social anxiety does not have to be a permanent condition. It is a mental health condition that is treatable and susceptible to change if you can work on a few things.

1. Realize that most people aren't thinking about you as much as you feel like they are.

2. Work on self esteem and confidence. People who are confident in themselves are able to care less about what others think.

3. Refrain from judging others. The less judgmental we become, the more we can imagine others may not actually be judging us.

4. Spend time among people who accept you. This can be difficult to find for some people, no doubt (it definitely was for me). But, the more you can put yourself in an environment where you are accepted for who you really are (no mask), the more you can build your self esteem and self acceptance.

5. Embrace imperfection. Allow others to be imperfect and often, this will trickle back to yourself and you will allow yourself to be flawed as well.

Ultimately not caring so much about what others think (and not worrying about it) comes from appreciating your own worth enough to exist as yourself without needing to meet the expectations of others. Especially for strangers and acquaintances, the expectations we are trying to meet are imagined and assumed. Remember that you are not a mind reader and you don't know what people are actually thinking about you. There is a chance they are thinking about something that has nothing to do with you whatsoever.
 
Besides any Autism and introversion you mentioned, it is hard to tell if your social fears and anxieties involving speaking, meeting others and fearing confrontations, critiques and/or rejection are mostly because of low self esteem, anxiety, or a mix. I mean, several things you mentioned remind me of Avoidant Personality Disorder, but other things remind me of Social Anxiety Disorder, with some having both conditions, on top of another condition even, but of course you would need to research more there or consider evaluation for that/those if you ever desire complete diagnostics or seeing if any comorbid conditions exist.

I was diagnosed with both conditions mentioned, prior to age twenty five, but a later Social Worker suspected Autism. I was never diagnosed with the latter though. I just know anyone that told me then to snap out of it and quit being so sensitive, or if I felt they were judging me negatively more or wanting me to change much, I saw them as not like me, and refusing to look at all factors why I acted and behaved like I was. I needed a rare few or one even to just accept me as I was, and then I perhaps could open to them more and grow more. I assumed all were not to be trusted otherwise, as I felt they could not like who I was at that time. I wanted a close friend, but not those who would make me feel worse, but to help me be my best.
 
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Read your post and this is a thought l have filtering thru from reading current threads from other. It seems a lot of us suffer from social burnout, somebody just posted a video they did on this very subject. To my thinking, l break it down as: l isolate if to overwhelmed with just being in to many crowded places. When l worked, sometimes, it took me several hours to calm down because l am re-running the situations l dealt with, contributing to my insomnia. We have to filter, and categorize if we were staying on top of our boundaries for that particular day. All this makes for very complex days that l foocus on. That seems to be my dysfunction. So l can only stand to be around suportive types now.
 
I feel I fit the social anxiety description more than the 'autism social ineptness'. I seem to understand social cues and everything, even when I was younger (I've been researching enough about autism and social cues and most of it do not describe my social problems at all). But there is still that bit of social awkwardness there even if it is nowhere near obvious enough to scream out autism. I don't even think it's noticeable enough for people to consciously notice it, but they subconsciously notice it instead. So, rather than thinking ''there's something strange about Misty'', I believe many people think ''ah, Misty is one of us and is easy to talk to and seems normal, but if I moved away I probably wouldn't care if I never stayed in touch with her, I don't know why.'' So my social awkwardness is too invisible to even be able to pinpoint or nitpick (even for me), yet it's enough to ruin my social life and make me feel isolated and unhappy in my own skin.

Also with the introvert thing. I believe I am an ambivert, which is a real thing (look it up) and means you tick the boxes of both introvert and extrovert. So I'm like a shy extrovert with social anxiety, or a very social introvert. My husband is the same but the other way around. He's an introvert and dislikes social gatherings and has to force himself to attend, but he doesn't feel shy about chatting in front of people once he's there, even if he's meeting them for the first time (and not drinking or anything). Although I can sometimes sense a bit of awkwardness in his tone and sometimes he doesn't always get heard. Me, however, I like being invited to social gatherings and I look forward to meeting people, but when I'm there I suddenly go in to shy mode and don't say much beyond greetings and a bit of small talk if they make small talk first. Otherwise I spend more time smiling and making eye contact and listening, than actually talking much.
 
The past two years I have had to do a lot of introspection about myself when younger in order to face the negative lies I told myself and which damaged me. I was basically shy and this was made worse by the lack of social skills and inability to understand social communication. I had normal desires for my age without the skills to see those met. Consequently I was socially fearful. As you were, I was never bullied, but felt constantly judged. That left me in constant fear of rejection as I was anxious about making mistakes with people because I could not see social cues that NTs seemed to understand implicitly. As I entered young adulthood this was especially acute with women. I was too paralyzed with fear of failure and rejection to engage with women, and when interacting I ended up being so reserved and courteous that I believe they thought that I had no interest or desire towards them.

Parties and groups were painful. Conversations about people left me cold as did people prattling on about collegiate and pro sports and I would spend time in an internal dialogue. I was not drained because I just sorta kept to myself.

My breakthrough came from three things. I was living independently, learning how to deal with the world on my own, then in my career I started to have success in my research, and with making a salary I had resources to pursue my interests. Because of the latter, I started involving myself in outings groups. With so many gear heads and quirky people I felt at home and could practice being social. Soon I was asked to do things like present on base prep and waxing XC-skis and was looked upon as a resource. I felt wanted. All of this led me to like who I was and gain a little confidence, and combined with loneliness, I would ask women out. I let go of my ego and took both acceptance and refusal with equanimity, and started maturing socially.
 
(Please don't just write that I should "just care less about what other people think". I appreciate it, but I have told myself this about a million times.)
I understand this. I know people who say this to us mean well, but often these sorts of mindsets and emotions are what makes us who we are. It makes me feel human and it also makes me feel like I do have cognitive empathy.
It's like trying to tell someone not to feel sad at a loved one's funeral. Feeling sad at a funeral and when a loved one dies is naturally sad for most of us humans and it isn't easy to just teach ourselves not to feel these emotions. So same with social anxiety and other anxiety-related issues. Some of us (ND or NT) are just wired to be sensitive and is just part of our personality.
It's especially harder to teach yourself not to feel these things when you can't help feeling deeply about stuff. I am a very emotional person and I wouldn't not want to be. But yes, it does ruin my life but it also makes me feel human (not saying people who don't feel these things intensely aren't human). It just makes me feel alive, like I feel things and have both compassionate and cognitive empathy.
We shouldn't be made to be something we're not.
 
Besides any Autism and introversion you mentioned, it is hard to tell if your social fears and anxieties involving speaking, meeting others and fearing confrontations, critiques and/or rejection are mostly because of low self esteem, anxiety, or a mix. I mean, several things you mentioned remind me of Avoidant Personality Disorder, but other things remind me of Social Anxiety Disorder, with some having both conditions, on top of another condition even, but of course you would need to research more there or consider evaluation for that/those if you ever desire complete diagnostics or seeing if any comorbid conditions exist.

I was diagnosed with both conditions mentioned, prior to age twenty five, but a later Social Worker suspected Autism. I was never diagnosed with the latter though. I just know anyone that told me then to snap out of it and quit being so sensitive, or if I felt they were judging me negatively more or wanting me to change much, I saw them as not like me, and refusing to look at all factors why I acted and behaved like I was. I needed a rare few or one even to just accept me as I was, and then I perhaps could open to them more and grow more. I assumed all were not to be trusted otherwise, as I felt they could not like who I was at that time. I wanted a close friend, but not those who would make me feel worse, but to help me be my best.
I don't know that much about avoidant personality disorder, but from just browsing a bit about it, I don't feel like it fits. Some things overlap, but others don't. For example:
"People with AVPD would like to interact with others, but they tend to avoid social interactions due to their intense fear of rejection."
"The main sign of avoidant personality disorder is having such a strong fear of rejection that you choose isolation over being around people. This pattern of behavior can vary from mild to extreme."
Diagnostic criteria (from what at least 4 need to be persistent):
  • "Avoiding job-related activities that involve working with others because they fear others will criticize or reject them.
  • Being unwilling to get involved with others unless they’re sure others will like them.
  • Being passive or reserved in close relationships because they fear ridicule or humiliation.
  • Extreme worry about others criticizing or rejecting them in regular social situations.
  • Feeling self-conscious in new social situations because they feel inadequate.
  • Assessing themselves as socially unskilled, unappealing or inferior to others.
  • Being reluctant to take personal risks or try new activities because they may feel embarrassed."
(All quotes from Avoidant Personality Disorder)

Mainly, I feel like it doesn't fit because
1) I'm not really worried about people not liking me. It's more that I worry what they might think of me and that I embarrass myself, and that makes me anxious. I am very open and quick to trust people and to open up to them, in the past sometimes even too quick, almost naive at some point. I assume the best in people. My small number of friends comes more from me feeling that I don't connect with a lot of people, but when I do connect with someone, I am overjoyed and they don't need to prove to me that they like me. I rather have to look out a bit that people don't take advantage of me (this also happened a lot more when I was younger).
2) I don't avoid general social situations because of this. I might try to avoid situations where I have to speak publicly, but as for the rest, I don't avoid them. I feel somewhat anxious before them, like before meeting new people or attending new groups, but I don't avoid them. And I am not scared of people not liking me, I'm just really embarrassed when I don't know how everything goes someplace. If I don't attend a social situation, that's usually because my social battery's empty and/or I am tired and overstimulated, not because I fear that I might be rejected. As a matter of fact, I worry very rarely about being rejected.

In the situations I described above (like public speaking, before attending events with new people I will have to interact with, making a phone call, etc.), I experience physical anxiety, like heart racing, sweaty palms, flushing. I'm not worried about being rejected, but it's more like an irrational feeling of nervousness and anxiety. If you asked me in that moment, I couldn't even tell you what I'm nervous about (at the most, maybe, that I might embarrass myself, seem silly or inappropriate).

Obviously, I don't know much about AVPD, and since I saw that it can strongly overlap with social anxiety, I'm not surprised that some things check, but I don't think I have that, or at the most in a mild form that doesn't pass as a personality disorder. Thank you for the information, though, it's given me stuff to think about.
 
I feel I fit the social anxiety description more than the 'autism social ineptness'. I seem to understand social cues and everything, even when I was younger (I've been researching enough about autism and social cues and most of it do not describe my social problems at all). But there is still that bit of social awkwardness there even if it is nowhere near obvious enough to scream out autism. I don't even think it's noticeable enough for people to consciously notice it, but they subconsciously notice it instead. So, rather than thinking ''there's something strange about Misty'', I believe many people think ''ah, Misty is one of us and is easy to talk to and seems normal, but if I moved away I probably wouldn't care if I never stayed in touch with her, I don't know why.'' So my social awkwardness is too invisible to even be able to pinpoint or nitpick (even for me), yet it's enough to ruin my social life and make me feel isolated and unhappy in my own skin.

Also with the introvert thing. I believe I am an ambivert, which is a real thing (look it up) and means you tick the boxes of both introvert and extrovert. So I'm like a shy extrovert with social anxiety, or a very social introvert. My husband is the same but the other way around. He's an introvert and dislikes social gatherings and has to force himself to attend, but he doesn't feel shy about chatting in front of people once he's there, even if he's meeting them for the first time (and not drinking or anything). Although I can sometimes sense a bit of awkwardness in his tone and sometimes he doesn't always get heard. Me, however, I like being invited to social gatherings and I look forward to meeting people, but when I'm there I suddenly go in to shy mode and don't say much beyond greetings and a bit of small talk if they make small talk first. Otherwise I spend more time smiling and making eye contact and listening, than actually talking much.
Yeah, I resonate with your first paragraph. I also feel like I don't experience that much of the "typical autism social problems", but more of the "social anxiety ones". On the other hand, though, I came to believe more and more than people and the way people interact might be a special interest of mine, or just something I'm really good at (without wanting to sound conceited). Since I was very confused about the way the other children interacted with each other and couldn't seem to really get the hang of it until I was around 10, I suspect that I subconsciously picked it up along the way, though. Since I started paying more attention to it, I noticed more and more masking behaviors in my social behavior, like smiling so often when I wouldn't naturally do it while someone else talks, looking into their faces, making little affirmative or astounded noises while they would tell a story (and I remember when I was a teenager actively learning to do this while my friend told me her gossip stories), etc.

I actually am familiar with the term ambivert and I feel for you. I have a friend who's the same - we both describe her as a very shy, socially somewhat inept extrovert. She needs people and hates being alone, but has real difficulties connecting with people, especially those she doesn't know, and often gets very uncomfortable once she is e.g. at the party or the gathering. I feel like that's a really hard combination.
 

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