Issues with people I consider overly devout

[DrBadStrings]

It's hard for me sometimes dealing with people. I think it is a commonality a lot of us have. For me it has a lot to do with being focused on logic and reason. Not fully grasping emotional response of folks I cling to facts. So I do often run into severe issues with folks that are overly devout. 4000+ religions out there and somehow these folks think they have a lock on the truth. It's frustrating to have any sort of conversation as it always revolves back to 'Because God Said So'. You honestly can't have a discussion with them, you can only be told that you are wrong and they are right because "God". It's literally like talking to a brick wall.

The worst part is I've often found that the most devout are typicaly horrible people to begin with that are using religion as a means to justify their crap behavior. "Christians" are the worst for it I find as most of them are behaving in a way that if Jesus were real, would be ashamed or even enraged. I say "Christians" with brackets because I do understand there are many believers of Christ out there that are very reasonable people to talk to. I'm referring to the ones that just use the word but have bastardized the faith.

I accept folks are going to have different religious and spiritual beliefs. That part doesn't bother me. It's just those that are overly devout and just not open to any sort of discussion, and that want to force their view and way of doing things onto everyone else. They'll say they are open to conversation but it always goes back to their list of rules is the only possible way. That's when I get frustrated and loose my tolerance and then honestly just want mentally crush them. I know it's wrong, and it is something I'm working on, and for the most part have moved beyond. In my teens and 20's I was angry in general and used my intelligence to crush belief.

I'm just wondering if anyone else gets frustrated with the overly devout and how you deal with it. I suppose the best thing is to just move on and ignore them but I have a hard time when I see something presented that isn't factual. I almost can't not say anything.

I'm not going to point to anyone here specifically, but there are a few religious nutters even in this group who can't even stay on topic. They'll post their religious barbs out of context in other peoples threads and it just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Tom]

Tbh I see it as a matter of freedom/tolerance. Even if you don't have spiritual beliefs yourself, spirituality exists and likely always will. It shouldn't really be a problem in normal discourse, at work, in some activity, eating out, etc. No one's going to say pass the salt because God says so. The talking subject has to go to something spiritual or ethical, etc. In my observation an atheist and a believer are usually an apple and an orange when spirituality enters the conversation. Equally it is so with people of two differing religions. So as a rule I don't converse with others on the subject outside my own type. But, I will not be rude or disrespectful of other types. Their right to their beliefs is equal to my own. Its a rare day indeed when I will talk with someone of a different belief system. The one common thing I noted is it usually has been with someone I know and trust very well and we mutually feel safe exchanging ideas. An exception to this thinking would be someone who feels called to actively spread the belief. There is nothing wrong with that as long as they follow the civil laws and also show respect.

 

[stevens]

Perhaps the word iconoclast was purpose-made or invented for autistic people. In graduate school, one professor delighted in referring to me as The Resident Iconoclast. He gave me a top grade, though.

Cult or religious institutional thought even creeps into science more frequently than we'd like to admit. Even into established and legitimate areas of science. There's an interesting talk from many years ago by Michael Crichton, in which he explains why "environmentalism" (whatever that actually is) meets the definition of a "religion." I write, "whatever that actually is" because sometimes it's hard to tell if people actually are speaking about the environment, or ecology, or anything related to it.

Also, at work the people who started any statement with the phrase "I believe" almost always were about to express something completely unsupported by any fact they personally were aware of, if any existed. Even to this day, when I hear that phrase my ears turn off almost instantly. (I'm not thrilled to be profiling people that way, for what it's worth.)

 

[DrBadStrings]

Tbh I see it as a matter of freedom/tolerance. Even if you don't have spiritual beliefs yourself, spirituality exists and likely always will. It shouldn't really be a problem in normal discourse, at work, in some activity, eating out, etc. No one's going to say pass the salt because God says so. The talking subject has to go to something spiritual or ethical, etc. In my observation an atheist and a believer are usually an apple and an orange when spirituality enters the conversation. Equality it is so with people of two differing religions. So as a rule I don't converse with others on the subject outside my own type. But, I will not be rude or disrespectful of other types. Their right to their beliefs is equal to my own. Its a rare day indeed when I will talk with someone of a different belief system. The one common thing I noted is it usually has been with someone I know and trust very well and we mutually feel safe exchanging ideas. An exception to this thinking would be someone who feels called to actively spread the belief. There is nothing wrong with that as long as they follow the civil laws and also show respect.

I agree with most of what you say there but there was one line I take issue with "Their right to their beliefs is equal to my own" I both do and don't agree with that.

I agree that their right to a belief is equal to my own, to a point. That point is when they think their belief should dictate my actions or someone elses actions.

As an example one big hot topic issue would be abortion. If you don't like the idea of it because of your religion fine, don't ever get one. That is your right. But don't tell other people or pass laws telling other people that they themselves can't because your god says no. And you see that currently in dozens of USA states.

It's at that level where I start having problems with the overly devout because it's no longer about them practice their faith in the privacy of their own home. they are trying to dictate my life based on their belief, and in that case I'm going to take the gloves off.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Why I like being agnostic, question with respect, Just respect my point of view other wise I have no time for you.

 

[DrBadStrings]

Perhaps the word iconoclast was purpose-made or invented for autistic people. In graduate school, one professor delighted in referring to me as The Resident Iconoclast. He gave me a top grade, though.

Cult or religious institutional thought even creeps into science more frequently than we'd like to admit. Even into established and legitimate areas of science. There's an interesting talk from many years ago by Michael Crichton, in which he explains why "environmentalism" (whatever that actually is) meets the definition of a "religion." I write, "whatever that actually is" because sometimes it's hard to tell if people actually are speaking about the environment, or ecology, or anything related to it.

Also, at work the people who started any statement with the phrase "I believe" almost always were about to express something completely unsupported by any fact they personally were aware of, if any existed. Even to this day, when I hear that phrase my ears turn off almost instantly. (I'm not thrilled to be profiling people that way, for what it's worth.)

Iconoclast is a great word thank you. I was drawing a blank earlier and that's just the word I was looking for. I'd consider myself then to be an agnostic apostate reformed iconoclast.

 

[DrBadStrings]

Why I like being agnostic, question with respect, Just respect my point of view other wise I have no time for you.

"Just respect my point of view other wise I have no time for you."

Even if the point of view might happen to be demonstrable nonsense? I'm not trying to attack you here but there is a quote that I've always come back to that you reminded me of;

"The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!"
Brian Cox

For the most part I will respect someone's right to have their faith and their belief as long as it doesn't interfere with the real world.

But when logic and fact proves one thing, and a person is standing there saying "I don't believe that because God blah blah blah". Then I'm sorry but I'm not going to respect or even tolerate the persons beliefs at that point. What they are saying has become demonstrable nonsense and should be treated accordingly.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

See my thread on blood type. Give me a good debate I will listen, other wise life is too short.

 

[tree]

REMINDER
Please make sure any 'debates' about religion are private.
Thanks.


Post #1

Thread 'Hello and welcome to the Religion Forum'

May 15, 2018

This forum area is for anyone who wants to discuss religion. This forum is not for debating religion, preaching to others or talking down to others based on their religious beliefs.

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I hope that you find great discussions within this forum and look forward to reading!

• Brent
• Replies: 34
• Forum: Religion

• 
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[Rachie]

I haven't got much to say on this.

Perhaps DrBadStrings you can discuss something else than religion with people who seem quite uncomfortable to talk about it in real life.You don't know some peoples intentions so that can make some peope wary to discuss religion with others.

I was in am ambulance going to an appointment not long ago and the driver was making me feel really uncomfortable saying things about my faith I didn't agree it and I changed the subject to make it to lighter and we had a laugh in the end. Discussing religion was making me feel full of conflict and stressed out with it.

I don't know how to say this as I am not judging anyone and nobody is perfect. Certainly there are many inspirational people of faith and sometimes I can find some of their journies useful. However, just because you have a faith doesn't mean that you are better than anyone else as a human being who doesn't have one or has a different faith.

I spent a number of years in hospital with at times much younger people. I think some of them may have had no faith and have their own journey in life, but they were exceptional human beings and I don't judge myself as being better than them.

 

[DrBadStrings]

I haven't got much to say on this.

Perhaps DrBadStrings you can discuss something else than religion with people who seem quite uncomfortable to talk about it in real life.You don't know some peoples intentions so that can make some peope wary to discuss religion with others.

I was in am ambulance going to an appointment not long ago and the driver was making me feel really uncomfortable saying things about my faith I didn't agree it and I changed the subject to make it to lighter and we had a laugh in the end. Discussing religion was making me feel full of conflict and stressed out with it.

I don't know how to say this as I am not judging anyone and nobody is perfect. Certainly there are many inspirational people of faith and sometimes I can find some of their journies useful. However, just because you have a faith doesn't mean that you are better than anyone else as a human being who doesn't have one or has a different faith.

I spent a number of years in hospital with at times much younger people. I think some of them may have had no faith and have their own journey in life, but they were exceptional human beings and I don't judge myself as being better than them.

By and large I do my best to avoid bringing up religion with people. It's when dealing with the overly devote that issues occur. I'm never the one bring the big G into things.

 

[TBRS1]

My learned experience is that, unless one knows who they are talking to very well, and/or do not care if they cause somebody with whom they could have been friendly to instantly despise them, there are three subjects you should not bring up:

1. Politics. Never. No exceptions.
2. Religion (being politely religious is fine. Don't talk about right/wrong or be condemning of "those people")
3. Sex or gender attitudes. Only bring them up when one wants to mate with that person. Otherwise, it really isn't one's business, is it?