It's all in their heads

[Suzette]

This is a subject that is driving me crazy but I am not really sure how to articulate my thoughts. Please forgive me

Recently I posted about meeting a young woman with adhd. Great kid! But her family really frustrated me about how they treated her.

This girl is 14 and adopted. Her family is loving and her parents are educators but seem to be completely unaware of how they treat this girl. The family has three boys, all older, and they are sports minded kids which their parents totally support. My friend is more nerdy/ arty.

What bothers me is how often her parents shushed her or redirected her attention by giving her a small task. They treated her as though she was climbimg the walls, but she was quite self posessed and simply wanted to participate in the gathering and conversation. Even more agrivating is that her mom and grand mother are both loud, non-stop talkers. They acted like the girls behavior was inapropriate but their own behavior was worse.

I fully recognize this girl as N.D. but I can't help but wonder if her parents did not influence her assessment to get the diagnosis they wanted so they could feel better about themselves. They seemed frustrated with her and yet she wasn't doing anything wrong. She interupted conversation far less than her mother and grandmother. It is as if they only see a diagnosis and not the girl.

I maybe wrong. They may have seen small tics that indicate she was getting wound up or perhaps scattered. I hope that is the case because looking from the outside in, it wasn't readily apparent.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

As an observer of interactions I have seen biases by parents. My sister seemed to put a lot of effort in raising her son but took a laissez faire approach with her daughter. Then when her daughter came out, expressed clear disappointment. The daughter is a natural at watersports and I have enjoyed my recreational time with her. Guess who is getting a sizeable inheritance when I die?

 

[jleeb05]

Perhaps you're right that they see signs that would not be obvious to the outside observer but I do wonder how often children (both NT and ND) are silenced or scolded for behaviors that aren't inherently wrong. I think some in my family considered me a problem child because I expressed my opinions, wants, and needs. I questioned rules and authority. I was stubborn and persistent. Yet, those are exactly the same traits that helped me succeed in school/career and that people now commend. As a child, it was seen as being defiant or disrespectful. As an adult, it's seen as being an independent thinker, dogged and determined.

I have vague recollections of being more outgoing, talkative, and willing to advocate for myself as a child but at some point I became much more reserved and quiet. I'm guessing it's because I was also directly or indirectly given the message that I was doing something wrong. One of my earliest memories is being in daycare. I think we'd have a snack every day and the teacher would choose someone to take the leftovers home. On one particular day, I think we had oatmeal cookies. When my Mom arrived, I excitedly asked the teacher if I could take the leftovers home. She smiled and gave them to me. But the next day, when my Mom wasn't there, she told me to NEVER ask again.

It sounds like the girl's parents are following the old adage that children should be seen and not heard, which is, of course, silly. They may be using her diagnosis as a way to further dismiss her thoughts and actions. Hopefully, that's not the case but I think it happens more than it should.

 

[Ken]

I have a great grand niece that I worry about in the same way. She is diagnosed as autistic and her parents are extremely conservative, dismissive and intolerant of "different".

I guess everyone's opinion or assessment of anyone or any situation is referenced to their own mentality. I guess that is why society, in general, does not like "different" people.

I felt that my father hated me because I was different. I was his favorite bully target. I was also routinely bullied in school, not by other students but by the teachers.

I have also witnessed children bullied by their parents in retaliation of other adults.

There is a lot of cruelty in the world.

I maybe wrong. They may have seen small tics that indicate she was getting wound up or perhaps scattered. I hope that is the case because looking from the outside in, it wasn't readily apparent.

It may be a matter of viewing the forest verses the trees or vice versa.

 

[Suzette]

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. I appreciate them all. Based on your comments I conclude that my observations were probably correct. I was reluctant to mention my thoughts to my husband because they are his family but he said he noticed things as I did.

 

[SDRSpark]

I can't help but wonder if her parents did not influence her assessment to get the diagnosis they wanted so they could feel better about themselves.

This happens. I have a cousin who has been disabled by his mother...he wasn't allowed to read because he was "too stupid" (her words) etc. Now he's in his 30s and still lives at home, isn't allowed to do much independently. Supposedly he has ADHD and autism (the ADHD I'm not sure about - his meds make him super hyper and about the time she decided he was hyperactive and needed medication she was giving him CAFFEINE - literally Pepsi in a baby bottle.)

He's not stupid at all and if he'd been allowed to learn and do things that he wanted to do, he could be thriving right now. She's well known for being one of those people who have to have all the attention on her though, and wanted a "special" child. It makes me so angry.

It sounds like the girl's parents are following the old adage that children should be seen and not heard, which is, of course, silly.

My dad believed this. He would yell at me for "interrupting" if I tried to say anything, ever. Then there was the time that the toilet had clogged and was overflowing...I tried to tell my parents, only to be yelled at by my dad for "interrupting", as per usual. So [malicious compliance engaged] I patiently waited until he was done speaking to tell him that the toilet was overflowing. Cue panicked running to the bathroom, followed by yelling at me for not telling him. Lol "but you said not to interrupt!".

I am not ashamed. I like to think he learned something that day...

 

[Suzette]

This happens. I have a cousin who has been disabled by his mother...he wasn't allowed to read because he was "too stupid" (her words) etc. Now he's in his 30s and still lives at home, isn't allowed to do much independently. Supposedly he has ADHD and autism (the ADHD I'm not sure about - his meds make him super hyper and about the time she decided he was hyperactive and needed medication she was giving him CAFFEINE - literally Pepsi in a baby bottle.)

That's disturbing. This behavior might be Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.
Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy | Michigan Medicine

That is a horrible thing to do to another person.

I hope I did not imply that this girls parents have done this. I only meant that they may have been faced with the behaviors of a normal, adopted, teen girl, but found it challenging and so nudged a psych eval in the direction that allowed them to save face. I hope that makes sense.

My husbannd and I were discussing this families very narrow view of what us acceptible. One of their three sons dropped out of college to become a freight train driver. He is paid fairly well and has a union pension. A very solid career choice but is seen as a failure. (Sorry kids, he is not on the spectrum)
Another son has a college basketball scholarship. He is seen as a star. But his g.p.a is just 2.0. The minimum to maintain his scholarship. This kid will probably not be recruited.
I don't understand these priorities.

 

[SDRSpark]

That's disturbing. This behavior might be Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.
Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy | Michigan Medicine

That is a horrible thing to do to another person.

I hope I did not imply that this girls parents have done this. I only meant that they may have been faced with the behaviors of a normal, adopted, teen girl, but found it challenging and so nudged a psych eval in the direction that allowed them to save face. I hope that makes sense.

My cousin's case is extreme, for sure. I certainly don't think (I hope, anyway!) that that's what's happening to your friend.

My husbannd and I were discussing this families very narrow view of what us acceptible. One of their three sons dropped out of college to become a freight train driver. He is paid fairly well and has a union pension. A very solid career choice but is seen as a failure. (Sorry kids, he is not on the spectrum)

Another son has a college basketball scholarship. He is seen as a star. But his g.p.a is just 2.0. The minimum to maintain his scholarship. This kid will probably not be recruited.

I don't understand these priorities.

Not only that, but sports careers have a tendency to be short lived. Even if he would be recruited, what if he gets injured?

There's nothing at all wrong with pursuing your passion, but if that passion is sports, acting, music etc it's especially important to have a viable fall back plan. (It's not a bad idea to have a fall back plan anyway, but I digress).

That said, high marks in college aren't necessary for a solid career, as evidenced by the freight train driver son. Sure, there are some careers you can't get into, but there are many, many more that you can. I'm an engineering technician - no college degree required.

 

[oregano]

When I was a teen (early 90s) it was expected that every kid would go to college. Trades were frowned upon as jobs for "losers". I couldn't get into a regular college, so I went to junior/community college. It was absolutely useless except for what I learned about myself outside of the classroom. Nowadays kids see the truth that a degree is so expensive and at the end you'll still be flipping burgers that many are opting out and going into the trades, where a lot of people are nearing retirement age. The thing is, Gen Xers (my generation) still hold the view that college is an absolute MUST to succeed, and denigrate their zoomer children who say "why should I take out $200k in loans for something I'll never use?" and decide on tradeswork. The world needs train and truck drivers far more than scholars of medieval history.

 

[Suzette]

. The world needs train and truck drivers far more than scholars of medieval history.

I completely agree.
I also think low skilled workers like fastfood workers, cleaners and others are way under valued.
Recently I got into a discussion where the other guy claimed that fastfood workers didn't need to earn a living wage because, in his view, they had made the choice to work fastfood and it was "their own fault".
As though making that choice should be punished. What the ???!!!@#$%&!!

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

THE only reason I could see a person making that claim is if they made poor choices in their formative years. Which I suspect is what they were impying. in many cases the Job is important but not the person doing it or visa vesa.

 

[Pieceofmind]

Perhaps you're right that they see signs that would not be obvious to the outside observer but I do wonder how often children (both NT and ND) are silenced or scolded for behaviors that aren't inherently wrong. I think some in my family considered me a problem child because I expressed my opinions, wants, and needs. I questioned rules and authority. I was stubborn and persistent. Yet, those are exactly the same traits that helped me succeed in school/career and that people now commend. As a child, it was seen as being defiant or disrespectful. As an adult, it's seen as being an independent thinker, dogged and determined.

I have vague recollections of being more outgoing, talkative, and willing to advocate for myself as a child but at some point I became much more reserved and quiet. I'm guessing it's because I was also directly or indirectly given the message that I was doing something wrong. One of my earliest memories is being in daycare. I think we'd have a snack every day and the teacher would choose someone to take the leftovers home. On one particular day, I think we had oatmeal cookies. When my Mom arrived, I excitedly asked the teacher if I could take the leftovers home. She smiled and gave them to me. But the next day, when my Mom wasn't there, she told me to NEVER ask again.

It sounds like the girl's parents are following the old adage that children should be seen and not heard, which is, of course, silly. They may be using her diagnosis as a way to further dismiss her thoughts and actions. Hopefully, that's not the case but I think it happens more than it should.

I find the root of reactions like this to behavior of individuals who are "different" whatever the condition is, is a result of adhering to outdated social models that have a one size fit all approach to every situation and if you don't or in many of our cases can't abide by that it's seen as bad even if it's mostly neutral. One thing I would be told often all throughout my life is that at social functions like parties was rude which made absolutely no sense to me as I was not doing anything rude. I think it was meant in how I greeted people cause it was always "say hi, don't be rude!" but otherwise was vague and I never got any concrete answers.

I also had to be defiant to learn about the world in a way that made sense to me because my parents were a;so very strict and always measured me to the standards of a NT where I thought and still do think there is some element of denial that played a role there. I only started getting a real breath of fresh air when I started making my own money and could more carefully manage my life to accommodate my needs and how I function.

 

[Gracey]

Many people the world over talk at the diagnosis rather than with the individual.

Perhaps hold back on any good intentioned advice to the family,
they may only see what they want to see - as guided by a 'professional'.

Instead, strike up your own conversations with their daughter. Be that observant, understanding and relatable person.

Next time there's a discussion going on and the mother and grandmother are leading the conversation and you can see the daughter wants to share her opinion,
make a point of asking her for it.
"What do you think ...(name)...?
Include her that way.

Matriarchal females can be like bulldozers there aren't many who feel comfortable being assertive with them.
A tag-team can work though

 

[Suzette]

Many people the world over talk at the diagnosis rather than with the individual.

Perhaps hold back on any good intentioned advice to the family,
they may only see what they want to see - as guided by a 'professional'.

Instead, strike up your own conversations with their daughter. Be that observant, understanding and relatable person.

Next time there's a discussion going on and the mother and grandmother are leading the conversation and you can see the daughter wants to share her opinion,
make a point of asking her for it.
"What do you think ...(name)...?
Include her that way.

Matriarchal females can be like bulldozers there aren't many who feel comfortable being assertive with them.
A tag-team can work though

I am far too old and well mannered to offer unsolicited advice to anyone! But I did aid her in her quest to share her thoughts! She trusted me with info her parents won't learn until she is 18. I consider her a friend and will keep her secrets.

 

[Gracey]

I am far too old and well mannered to offer unsolicited advice to anyone! But I did aid her in her quest to share her thoughts! She trusted me with info her parents won't learn until she is 18. I consider her a friend and will keep her secrets.

It took me several attempts to learn not to offer unsolicited advice to some wider family members

I was pleased to read she has a friend in you