Linux Users Question

[Judge]

Having been using Linux Mint 20.3 for a few months now, one thing that bothers me is to occasionally look into the log files to see various entries that produce comments assailing things like usb media, my DVD drive, and other comments. At times some of them seem like a waste of space, given that the system status always shows "no problems".

Some of the comments are a bit pedantic to say the least. Like telling me there's some kind of error involving Bluetooth. Where the system shows a waste of comments in the system being unable to connect to Bluetooth services. Duh! I don't use Bluetooth and don't have a USB dongle to even make it work.

And some of the other comments are so cryptic that user forums online like Mint and Ubuntu can't seem to agree what they really mean. With many simply lamenting, "Don't worry about it." Frustrating at times because it seems to turn much of any troubleshooting into nerdish debates or speculation rather than conditional explanations and solutions to OS concerns. One major downside to using an open-source operating system. Having to wade through a lot of crap just to get a viable answer of how to fix a problem.

I know my outdated bios doesn't like Linux period when it comes to booting up an Nvidia video card, even when I opt to use Linux's open-source driver rather than the proprietary drivers that make booting look kind of ugly. And just accessing anything having to do with Wine 7.0 produces a litany of comments in the log. Yet like everything else, it still runs just fine along with the few Windows programs I installed. And whew....Linux didn't seem to like my 3.5" internal card reader at all. I ended up removing it. It worked fine, but so many negative log entries created whether I activated it or not. Ugh!

It just seems that the log files are like cannon fodder as long as the system status reports nothing is really wrong. As far as my hardware peripherals go, they all seem to operate just fine, whether in Linux or Windows.

If the log generates relatively unimportant, non-critical comments, I can't say I appreciate this "chicken little" function in Linux Mint 20.3. Putting users on a wild goose chase over things that don't really seem to matter. "Much ado about nothing"? What say you? I'm, not looking for any specific solutions posting this, but just curious if any of you have run into similar concerns. Where your log files imply "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!" And yet your system status conditionally reports "no problems". WTH?

Or have any of you ever bothered to investigate the content of Mint's log files? I didn't until recently...oops.

 

[Jordy]

Sovling issues on linux is a bottom to top process, that means you often can't tell from the bug at hand what underlying mechanics need to be understood to fix it. You first need to get a very good complete understanding of how your system works before you can tell exactly what went wrong from a bug. And the problem with that is that linux is constantly changing, don't bother reading linux books that are older than say 3 years. To an experienced linux master most of these issues are so trivial and easily understood they almost don't even call them errors or bugs "oh looks like this wasn't configured properly yet, let me fix it in a second", but to the beginner it can be hitting a roadblock.

This is why some people recommend an operating system like arch linux or gentoo It forces you to understand what every component in your system does and why it's required, that way you can at least understand where something is going wrong.

 

[Judge]

Sovling issues on linux is a bottom to top process, that means you often can't tell from the bug at hand what underlying mechanics need to be understood to fix it. You first need to get a very good complete understanding of how your system works before you can tell exactly what went wrong from a bug. And the problem with that is that linux is constantly changing, don't bother reading linux books that are older than say 3 years. To an experienced linux master most of these issues are so trivial and easily understood they almost don't even call them errors or bugs "oh looks like this wasn't configured properly yet, let me fix it in a second", but to the beginner it can be hitting a roadblock.

This is why some people recommend an operating system like arch linux or gentoo It forces you to understand what every component in your system does and why it's required, that way you can at least understand where something is going wrong.

Good response, but it reflects precisely why Linux has and probably will remain with only two-percent of the market. I know more than the average users, certainly enough to build my own PCs. However if I have to learn this degree of what makes the OS tick, I'll likely go back to Windows. I'll put in the time to use a specific application, but an entire operating system? Nope-nope-nope. I'm retired and have more leisurely things to tend to. But I appreciate your candor.

Most of all it just frustrates me that an OS maintains a system status indicator that consistently reflects "no problems" (in plain English), yet a system log that spits out highly cryptic statements that sound like they were regurgitated by Star Trek's Geordie LeForge. And when I look them up in various Linux forums I still seldom find any real answers that solve the problem- if it really is a problem.

But don't get me wrong- some of them I've figured out, enough to realize they appear to be harmless. As if it was an artificial intelligence drama critic subjectively dissing my functional hardware and little else. But why even bother?

If you don't have a Bluetooth dongle, Bluetooth won't function. Duh! Why crank out lines and lines of cryptic comments about it when it's totally unnecessary ? Reminds me a bit of Microsoft's kludge. Not good. Especially when otherwise my Linux Mint 20.3 seems to run just fine regardless of what the log states. And the system status cites "no problems".

Sadly it seems to be no secret within the Linux community that there may be a great many knowledgeable fans out there who are in fact determined to keep this open-source system obscure and out of the mainstream. While I understand it, I don't agree with it. As long as Linux maintains such a tiny slice of the marketplace, hardware manufacturers like Nvidia will continue to treat it little more than like an insect bite. And it doesn't help that Microsoft has made it impossible to dual-boot Windows 11 with any Linux distro. Linux could use some friends.

Then again, perhaps my expectations of Linux were just too high based on the lows of Microsoft Windows.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

One of my brothers swears by Linux, but then he is an expert on its use, I know nothing. No malware, spamming, viruses.

 

[Judge]

One of my brothers swears by Linux, but then he is an expert on its use, I know nothing. No malware, spamming, viruses.

Nice!

I swear by Toyota, Honda and Mazda. But I'd take them to an expert to service or repair. If I had to become a 21st century auto mechanic just to drive one, I'd look for another model. But then so would most everyone else.

Which hasn't stopped me from using a Linux OS, but it sure has diminished my enthusiasm for it.

I knew going in that the transition from Windows to Linux would be difficult. Though I just don't see it being practical to have to become a rocket scientist just to make an operating system run nominally.

Then again, it may run just peachy- as it appears for the most part. But these log entries confuse the crap out of me contrasted by a status report that claims "no problems".

I'm also still working on eliminating a periodic and random "pop" in my Intel high definition audio. Another unwanted but common gem with Linux Mint. I was able to reclaim output from my speakers using the Alsa Utilities' HDA Jack Retask, but that "pop" remains elusive, despite a lot of online discussion about it. Issues which I never had with Microsoft Windows. I'm sometimes ok with certain alleged solutions using the terminal, but altering scripts within certain files still spooks me. Where problem-solving and an anonymous suggestion or claim becomes a leap of faith and little else.

Needless to say, in experimenting I've brought the whole OS down a time or two. But I don't mind if I actually learn something in the process. One thing I do like is that Linux Mint seems to install in half the time or less than it takes to install Windows.

 

[Ken]

I am a relatively new Linux Mint user and don't consider myself experienced with it. At this point, I am more than happy with it. Even with Windows, I never looked at the logs unless I was experiencing an issue. Same with Linux. I guess I probably have lots of logged "errors", but I don't really care, because I'm not experiencing any issues.

 

[Judge]

I am a relatively new Linux Mint user and don't consider myself experienced with it. At this point, I am more than happy with it. Even with Windows, I never looked at the logs unless I was experiencing an issue. Same with Linux. I guess I probably have lots of logged "errors", but I don't really care, because I'm not experiencing any issues.

Ken, I'd love to have you take a look at your log just to compare.

I'm on Linux Mint 20.3 right now, still trying to nail down this popping sound I get periodically from the HDA. Probably power-related, but I suspect I'll figure it out eventually. Interesting to read from other Linux users who don't seem to be thrilled with pulseaudio software that powers the volume and audio effects in Linux Mint.

I'm still inclined to believe that if the OS wants to truly warn me of something, it would do so through the System Reports feature, which consistently reports "No problems were detected".

-Regardless of those log entries. Such as...

Bluetooth issues. But I don't even have the dongle to make it run:

GetManagedObjects() failed: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)

Boot Bug. My bios doesn't like booting Linux and gives this ACPI error prior to Linux booting up that doesn't stop the OS from running just fine:

ACPI Error: Aborting method \_SB.PCI0.SAT0.SPT2._GTF due to previous error (AE_NOT_FOUND) (20190816/psparse-529)

This one remains a mystery. The few who have seen it before in various forums seem to think it's yet another innocuous entry. Though I'd still like to know what it's about:

gkr-pam: unable to locate daemon control file

 

[Judge]

As far as the popping sounds go, I found a link that states that I needed to add two lines to the file
: /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf, plus make some entries in the terminal which I did.

Accessed this file using root privileges and added the following lines:

options snd-hda-intel power_save=0
power_save_controller=N

Testing out now. So far, so good. But it's more likely to pop when the system first boots up. We shall see.

Seems like the typical stuff you have to deal with Linux. Identify the problem and look for a solution and hope it works. Kind of creepy having to go with what amounts to "blind faith".

 

[Judge]

Looks like I finally got all my audio issues fixed for Linux Mint 20.3. Glad I found this link:

Linux Ubuntu Speakers Popping every few seconds

Though I still find log entries to be annoying when they don't reflect real problems.
And using Wine 7.0 at any time launches a whole lot of comments in the log. Ugh. But otherwise the system itself still appears to be running quite well. Go figure.

Oh well...all part of the learning curve of Linux. But I can reinstall this operating system any time I want, on any computer. Including this one that is 9 years old. And it still costs me nothing, and I don't have to sign up with any corporate behemoths just to use it.

 

[Ken]

Ken, I'd love to have you take a look at your log just to compare.

Hey, @Judge, just looked at my logs and yes, they are just like you describe. Lots of "errors" that doesn't seem to apply. Some errors are for hardware that I actually have, stating failure and shutting down, however, it works perfectly with no evident glitches. Also lots of errors for hardware that I don't have.

Just my thoughts; in my work as a hardware design engineer, it is common to add lots of monitoring circuitry to design prototypes to help with the design and testing process. However, all of those circuits are removed before going to manufacturing. Software is the same. Lots of logging code is included during design development to assist in the design process. We called it "debug code" or "debug circuits". I suspect that the excess logging may be a leftover from the development effort. But, since it never goes to commercial manufacturing, no effort is exerted to removing any development "debug" logging.

Personally, I'm OK with that as it doesn't seem detrimental to the operation of the machine, but it may be useful, and make sense, as I become more knowledgeable about Linux.

 

[Judge]

Hey, @Judge, just looked at my logs and yes, they are just like you describe. Lots of "errors" that doesn't seem to apply. Some errors are for hardware that I actually have, stating failure and shutting down, however, it works perfectly with no evident glitches. Also lots of errors for hardware that I don't have.

Just my thoughts; in my work as a hardware design engineer, it is common to add lots of monitoring circuitry to design prototypes to help with the design and testing process. However, all of those circuits are removed before going to manufacturing. Software is the same. Lots of logging code is included during design development to assist in the design process. We called it "debug code" or "debug circuits". I suspect that the excess logging may be a leftover from the development effort. But, since it never goes to commercial manufacturing, no effort is exerted to removing any development "debug" logging.

Personally, I'm OK with that as it doesn't seem detrimental to the operation of the machine, but it may be useful, and make sense, as I become more knowledgeable about Linux.

Thanks so much for responding, Ken. Given your background in hardware design, I really appreciate your perspective.

I had a feeling this would be the case. It just didn't make sense that the system could crank out all this data if it directly compromised the performance of the operating system. And that perhaps developers can use it in the future to hone software with various types of hardware.

A little tip- I periodically (and safely) purge my application log files using a program called "Stacer". One you can download directly from Mint's repository.