Lying

[Notready2giveup]

My boyfriend and I have been together almost two and a half years. We clicked from instant that our eyes first locked. I was very attracted to him physically and equally attracted to his personality and interests. Our personalities are very complimentary. Since we met we have had our share of ups and downs. This was usually do to his becoming cold and withdrawn after I got mad at him for being insensitive or selfish. He broke up with me once out of the blue and I was devastated.

We got back together after I wrote him a long letter explaining my feelings and what I needed to happen to get back together. If he couldn’t or wouldn’t do those things I asked that he just let me move on with my life. When we got back together I believe that he really would follow through on his promised. To date he hasn’t followed through on anything that I said I needed to make our relationship work.

About a year ago I realized that he fit the characteristics of someone on the high end of the autism spectrum. I did not want to give up on us just because I knew that it would be challenging. Once I learned more about the spectrum I learned how to navigate through some things to avoid most fights or misunderstandings. I am extremely empathetic and can let a lot go related to spectrum behavior.

The one thing I can’t let go is his lying. I think that he learned at some point that life was easier if he just told people what they wanted to hear. It has worked well in his professional life. Typically, he only has a couple of friends.

He pathologically lies about stuff that he does not need to lie about. They are the kind of lies that just roll off his tongue and are easily disproven. When I call him out on a lie he questions why I am with him. He usually gets distant and will barely eat anything at all for several days. I have hit my breaking point with his lying.

I know that I have to break up with him and really want to stay together. I value honesty and don’t put up with lies from my friends so why should I put up with it from someone I am in love with. I really wish that there was a way to get him to stop lying to me. Is there any way to get him to stop lying to me? Keep in mind he probably does not know that he is on the spectrum.

 

[Suzanne]

Can you give an example of what he lies about?

When one gets into a habit of doing anything, it is very hard to break that habit and he obviously does not have an internal "switch off" ie ah that was a lie, best stop myself.

Since you can tell when he lies; why not say: hey, what do you REALLY mean? You see, you said that he doesn't even realise he is lying, which means that he is not being deceitful and why he gets hurt when you say he is lying. If one doesn't think they are, then it is pretty hard to have someone who supposed to love us, coming along and saying: you are lying and this has got to stop.

 

[Tia Maria]

Hmm, is he actually Aspergers or just a narcissistic man who like all narcissists is selfish, pathologically lies, uses others, & responds with the silent treatment (cold & withdrawn) as a form of punishment & control?

A female Aspie AC member recommended the following website awhile back to another new AC member who was inquiring about her supposedly Aspie boyfriend. That bf actually displayed High Functioning Autism or Aspergers traits, BUT he also exhibited (what would be co-morbid) sociopathic traits. His sociopathic personality (not the Aspergers) made him a very unsuitable bf or future life partner.

I am familiar with the "Cluster B personality disorders" but had never heard of the referenced website before. Ever curious, I checked it out, & I think it's a great site which I now recommend to you. Psychopath Free | Narcissist, Sociopath, and Psychopath Abuse Recovery

Some Aspies have traits which are very similar to narcissism, but a person who is truly on the Autistic Spectrum is NOT the same as a person who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (although a person can be autistic/Aspergers AND simultaneously have NPD).

I would research THAT further before I chalked up the following behavior to possible high functioning autism or Aspergers:

Lying, insensitivity, selfishness, inability or lack of desire or commitment to follow through on promises he made for the sake of his relationship with you, becoming cold & withdrawn towards you after you get mad (aka upset) in response to him being insensitive or selfish, & his breaking up with you once out of the blue.

You also "navigate through some things to avoid most fights or misunderstandings". You are "extremely empathetic and can let a lot go related to spectrum behavior."

On the plus side, you are very physically attracted to him, his personality & interests; and your personalities are very complimentary.

You are giving, compromising & extending yourself quite a bit.

And NO, you should not tolerate or accept his lying. It's unacceptable. But I wonder if someone who lies so often & so easily could even stop lying?!?!

Never mind the fact that he doesn't sound remorseful for any of his behavior, & his responses seem more about controlling your reaction (to his bad behavior) to his satisfaction, versus any indication of him wanting to change. The one time he promised to make changes & work on making your relationship healthier & more mutually satisfying; he did not follow through.

Narcissists & extremely caring, giving, empathetic people (like you) actually fit together quite well, in a most dysfunctional combination. A more self protective, less giving, less empathetic person would kick their narcissistic A$$ to the curb so quick stars would fly!

I sympathize & am so sorry for you ... that you are in this predicament where you love someone who I agree you probably need to break up with. Think of the future you want for yourself, & what kind of person you want to spend your life with. Being "in love" is a powerful intoxicant, but this is the BEST it will ever be with a person like you described. Such a person's behavior & their treatment of you won't improve over time, it will get worse. Is that really how you want to live? Despite your love for this guy, deep down you KNOW you deserve better.

Please check out that website.

 

[Tom]

There is a widely held belief that lying comes less naturally to an autistic person then NTs. I am not sure if that is true, but certainly it is not more likely or a common trait with autistics. I have seen autistics who do lie continually. It has become part of their coping mechanism, or a method they use to get what they want. But basically in either case, NT or Autistic it is negative behavior. If they were autistic and had professional help, it would be on the plan as a behavior to be reduced/removed.

Honestly, since you have already addressed it repeatedly and he shows no interest in changing, I don't see any easy way too proceed and deal with it. I don't think this is something you alone can fix. It's just my view, but I believe to really work a relationship needs a functional conflict resolution system/method that is fair to both parties. Not one that just expects the same person to give in each time. So you can't even come to grips with this problem because you don't have a way of honestly dealing with problems with this individual.

The fix, as far as he goes, has to begin with him recognizing something is wrong, and then to be willing to do what is needed to correct it. The HFA if it is true, is not the cause of lying but is a significant underlying condition and would be important information in the self analysis process. So professional help may be needed.

 

[Notready2giveup]

Some examples of lies:

· He told me that his family knew that we were together. When I met his mom she had never heard of me. That was a good year into our relationship.

· He told me that last Memorial Day weekend he couldn’t see me because he had plans with his high school buddies away at a cabin. When I finally met one of those friends I found out that they had spent the weekend at his house.

· Around a month ago he told me that he had his daughter for the weekend and they were going out of town to a play. I was going to get a few things at his house and noticed his car was in the driveway. The next morning me he was texting me while he was “driving home”. There was no way they could have made the play. He made the whole thing up. Maybe he didn’t even have his daughter that weekend.

· Last weekend he said that he had his daughter all weekend. To spend time with me Friday night he “got his sister to watch her”. Saturday night my friend saw him out at a bar with his friend from high school who lives out of town. The next morning he told me that he had gone to bed early. He even told me what he and his daughter did the night before.

· He told me one time when he was upset that sometimes he told me that he had his daughter when he did not just to get a night to himself.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

I don't think a pathological liar is autistic for the same reason I don't believe sociopathy and autism are consistent with each other. I do think a sociopath can "pass" for autistic; it makes a great excuse. Sociopaths don't have the passion about justice; their passion is power.

However, it's all too easy to label and assume. Some of those lies sound like social white lies, like having his daughter over. That's just stuff, not pathology.

 

[Notready2giveup]

Hmm, is he actually Aspergers or just a narcissistic man who like all narcissists is selfish, pathologically lies, uses others, & responds with the silent treatment (cold & withdrawn) as a form of punishment & control?

A female Aspie AC member recommended the following website awhile back to another new AC member who was inquiring about her supposedly Aspie boyfriend. That bf actually displayed High Functioning Autism or Aspergers traits, BUT he also exhibited (what would be co-morbid) sociopathic traits. His sociopathic personality (not the Aspergers) made him a very unsuitable bf or future life partner.

I am familiar with the "Cluster B personality disorders" but had never heard of the referenced website before. Ever curious, I checked it out, & I think it's a great site which I now recommend to you. Psychopath Free | Narcissist, Sociopath, and Psychopath Abuse Recovery

Some Aspies have traits which are very similar to narcissism, but a person who is truly on the Autistic Spectrum is NOT the same as a person who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (although a person can be autistic/Aspergers AND simultaneously have NPD).

I would research THAT further before I chalked up the following behavior to possible high functioning autism or Aspergers:

Lying, insensitivity, selfishness, inability or lack of desire or commitment to follow through on promises he made for the sake of his relationship with you, becoming cold & withdrawn towards you after you get mad (aka upset) in response to him being insensitive or selfish, & his breaking up with you once out of the blue.

You also "navigate through some things to avoid most fights or misunderstandings". You are "extremely empathetic and can let a lot go related to spectrum behavior."

On the plus side, you are very physically attracted to him, his personality & interests; and your personalities are very complimentary.

You are giving, compromising & extending yourself quite a bit.

And NO, you should not tolerate or accept his lying. It's unacceptable. But I wonder if someone who lies so often & so easily could even stop lying?!?!

Never mind the fact that he doesn't sound remorseful for any of his behavior, & his responses seem more about controlling your reaction (to his bad behavior) to his satisfaction, versus any indication of him wanting to change. The one time he promised to make changes & work on making your relationship healthier & more mutually satisfying; he did not follow through.

Narcissists & extremely caring, giving, empathetic people (like you) actually fit together quite well, in a most dysfunctional combination. A more self protective, less giving, less empathetic person would kick their narcissistic A$$ to the curb so quick stars would fly!

I sympathize & am so sorry for you ... that you are in this predicament where you love someone who I agree you probably need to break up with. Think of the future you want for yourself, & what kind of person you want to spend your life with. Being "in love" is a powerful intoxicant, but this is the BEST it will ever be with a person like you described. Such a person's behavior & their treatment of you won't improve over time, it will get worse. Is that really how you want to live? Despite your love for this guy, deep down you KNOW you deserve better.

Please check out that website.

I looked at the site, took the quiz, and checked out the 30 red flags of a manipulative person. Well I do agree that our relationship is not in a healthy place, I don’t think that his behavior completely fits the psychopathic criteria. I will, however, keep that possibility in mind.

I really appreciated your comments. Some of what you wrote really resonated with me. Not as much with my current relationship, but with a previous one. I used to date someone who fit every criteria of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. It was hell to get out of that relationship. Since then I have been well aware of abusive behavior. Thank you for sharing that wonderful resource.

 

[Notready2giveup]

I have plenty of reasons for thinking that he could be autistic that have nothing to do with lying. I just wanted to know how to handle his lying if he were in fact autistic. Since he has never been open about it, I have to assume that he isn’t aware of it. I could be wrong, but there are plenty of situations that I don’t necessary want to share that support my hypothesis.



Most of the time he is a wonderful boyfriend and I feel very happy with him. The worst thing he does is lie to me. At times he can be a bit selfish, but I am not sure that he is any more selfish than most guys. He doesn’t belittle me and I do not feel like my world has turned upside down. I am very sad at the idea of losing him, but I do not feel like a broken person. I think I feel better about myself now than I did at the beginning of our relationship. I also know that I am someone who puts a premium on honesty and know that I could never be truly happy with someone I couldn’t trust.

 

[Tia Maria]

Some examples of lies:

· He told me that his family knew that we were together. When I met his mom she had never heard of me. That was a good year into our relationship.

· He told me that last Memorial Day weekend he couldn’t see me because he had plans with his high school buddies away at a cabin. When I finally met one of those friends I found out that they had spent the weekend at his house.

· Around a month ago he told me that he had his daughter for the weekend and they were going out of town to a play. I was going to get a few things at his house and noticed his car was in the driveway. The next morning me he was texting me while he was “driving home”. There was no way they could have made the play. He made the whole thing up. Maybe he didn’t even have his daughter that weekend.

· Last weekend he said that he had his daughter all weekend. To spend time with me Friday night he “got his sister to watch her”. Saturday night my friend saw him out at a bar with his friend from high school who lives out of town. The next morning he told me that he had gone to bed early. He even told me what he and his daughter did the night before.

· He told me one time when he was upset that sometimes he told me that he had his daughter when he did not just to get a night to himself.

I completely disagree with aspergirl4hire that these are unimportant little white lies. These examples (& also the degree to which he extends & expands on his lies) are absolutely unacceptable.

In addition, people in intimate relationships should not be lying to each other, including little white lies UNLESS they are on the order of 'yes, I like your new haircut' or 'no, that pot roast wasn't over cooked too badly'. Those represent a 'white lie', i.e.; a slight stretching of the truth to spare a loved ones feelings over something inconsequential. NOT fabricating untruths for the liar's own benefit.

It would be a small start if your bf at least recognized & admitted there is a problem, & was sincerely interested in addressing the issues in your relationship including his lying. I would require him to see a counselor with you.

I think it is a serious concern that to date he has not demonstrated remorse or a willingness to change, & also that he has a pattern of lying. In fact, when if ever can you know that he is being truthful when he tells you something?

 

[Tia Maria]

I looked at the site, took the quiz, and checked out the 30 red flags of a manipulative person. Well I do agree that our relationship is not in a healthy place, I don’t think that his behavior completely fits the psychopathic criteria. I will, however, keep that possibility in mind.

I really appreciated your comments. Some of what you wrote really resonated with me. Not as much with my current relationship, but with a previous one. I used to date someone who fit every criteria of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. It was hell to get out of that relationship. Since then I have been well aware of abusive behavior. Thank you for sharing that wonderful resource.

I'm glad you checked it out. I also think it's a great resource & now you'll have it for future reference. I'm glad too that you escaped from that prior relationship.

While your current bf may be an improvement, & also not 'completely' fit the psychopathic criteria, a narcissistic person is not the same (or as toxic) as a psychopathic personality. And of course every person is selfish to some degree, it's part of our survival instinct.

But your statement that you "are not sure that he is any more selfish than most guys" gives me pause because not all guys are selfish. Frankly, that is making an excuse for him, & you're comparing his behavior to a lower standard than what's normal. I am not putting him down, & you may not mind accommodating his level of selfishness (whatever it is) but don't excuse it as most guys are selfish because that is not true.

Putting a premium on honesty in a relationship is a normal standard & you are NOT expecting too much. Whether or not he is autistic has nothing to do with his untruthfulness. Autism would not provide an excuse, or a pass to allow it to continue unchecked.

Here are the lies you shared that I found most concerning:

· Around a month ago he told me that he had his daughter for the weekend and they were going out of town to a play. I was going to get a few things at his house and noticed his car was in the driveway. The next morning me he was texting me while he was “driving home”. There was no way they could have made the play. He made the whole thing up. Maybe he didn’t even have his daughter that weekend.

· Last weekend he said that he had his daughter all weekend. To spend time with me Friday night he “got his sister to watch her”. Saturday night my friend saw him out at a bar with his friend from high school who lives out of town. The next morning he told me that he had gone to bed early. He even told me what he and his daughter did the night before.

· He told me one time when he was upset that sometimes he told me that he had his daughter when he did not just to get a night to himself.

You obviously love him & want your relationship to be healthy & satisfying for you both. I truly hope it works out for you, but he does need to cease & desist with the lying. Please re-read Tom's post above. I'm wishing you the very, very best.

 

[StephF]

My advice, if you choose to accept it is simple: Dump him !

You gave him a chance and laid it out of for him, he has failed to take any steps so bin him and move him.

Sorry if I sound blunt.

 

[Judge]

NT, Aspie, sociopath, narcissist, etc.. In such cases I don't believe such distinctions matter. If you have concluded this person is in fact a manipulative, pathological liar, from the standpoint of any relationship with him there is only one logical thing to do.

Such a person will consistently hurt you more than help you, and take a great deal of your emotional energy in the process.

Leave him.

Sadly there's just no way to "sugar-coat" such a scenario, IMO. I just don't see how much of any relationship can sustain constant lying over a period of time.

 

[StephF]

Why inflict more emotional burden upon yourself ? Move on and I hope you will find better down the road

 

[Shera1414]

I looked at the site, took the quiz, and checked out the 30 red flags of a manipulative person. Well I do agree that our relationship is not in a healthy place, I don’t think that his behavior completely fits the psychopathic criteria. I will, however, keep that possibility in mind.

I really appreciated your comments. Some of what you wrote really resonated with me. Not as much with my current relationship, but with a previous one. I used to date someone who fit every criteria of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. It was hell to get out of that relationship. Since then I have been well aware of abusive behavior. Thank you for sharing that wonderful resource.

 

[Shera1414]

I looked at the site, took the quiz, and checked out the 30 red flags of a manipulative person. Well I do agree that our relationship is not in a healthy place, I don’t think that his behavior completely fits the psychopathic criteria. I will, however, keep that possibility in mind.

I really appreciated your comments. Some of what you wrote really resonated with me. Not as much with my current relationship, but with a previous one. I used to date someone who fit every criteria of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. It was hell to get out of that relationship. Since then I have been well aware of abusive behavior. Thank you for sharing that wonderful resource.

Your not alone..I just broke up with a lying Aspie. Caught him on a date site, he would lie all the time about doing his laundry and eating dinner. Anything not to use the phone. Why is the phone such a pain for Aspies? I am ADHD and had a Sociopath for my last boyfriend. So..as you I am well aware of the danger signs of this person. He's manipulating and it seemed I was a girlfriend of "convenience" and that bothered the sh** out of me. I actually paid more during the relationship than he did and he makes about 4x more money. The only time he comes running back is when I kick him to the curb. However, this time I wrote a letter and laid everything on the line. Every ***** I ever had so the expectations have been raised and I don't think he will be coming back. Good for me but I am heavy hearted. I really wish I never met him because when we were together..things were great. When we were apart..I was a nuisance. I couldn't win no matter how hard I tried. I know he knows he's different but I just cannot allow myself to be treated like that anymore. I feel your pain.

 

[Shera1414]

Why inflict more emotional burden upon yourself ? Move on and I hope you will find better down the road

That's easier said than done when you have invested quite a bit of emotional, physical and mental energy. I cannot deny you are correct.

 

[SignOfLazarus]

Why is the phone such a pain for Aspies?

Eh... so is this really something you want an answer to?
If so, what did he say when you asked him? Did it not make sense?

[ETA]...and I mean I guess to further clarify- is this just frustration on your part rather than a full question? I'm not sure because otherwise I could go into numerous reasons why it might be more common for those on the spectrum to avoid phones.

 

[Tia Maria]

Your not alone..I just broke up with a lying Aspie. Caught him on a date site, he would lie all the time about doing his laundry and eating dinner. Anything not to use the phone. Why is the phone such a pain for Aspies? I am ADHD and had a Sociopath for my last boyfriend. So..as you I am well aware of the danger signs of this person. He's manipulating and it seemed I was a girlfriend of "convenience" and that bothered the sh** out of me. I actually paid more during the relationship than he did and he makes about 4x more money. The only time he comes running back is when I kick him to the curb. However, this time I wrote a letter and laid everything on the line. Every ***** I ever had so the expectations have been raised and I don't think he will be coming back. Good for me but I am heavy hearted. I really wish I never met him because when we were together..things were great. When we were apart..I was a nuisance. I couldn't win no matter how hard I tried. I know he knows he's different but I just cannot allow myself to be treated like that anymore. I feel your pain.

Not wanting to talk on the phone because of Aspie traits would be fine. Being on a dating site, lying, & also being incredibly stingy (versus frugal, i.e. making his gf pay when he has 4x the money!) is NOT fine.

I am sorry you were hurt like this Shera1414. You should also check out that website I linked above - & probably join it as well. It will give you some of the support you need right now.

In addition, another female AC member (Vanilla) had brought forward the following youtube channel - the Spartan Life Coach. Another excellent resource for people who have unfortunately been involved with extremely selfish &/or toxic people. SPARTANLIFECOACH - YouTube

I also recommend you read the following book, "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck, MD. Meanwhile, please keep reminding yourself that you are worth it & deserve more. (Hugs.)

 

[tree]

13 question quiz..."Are you dating a psychopath?"
Title sounded really over the top to me, but the
material on the site is surprisingly reasonable.

It seems to me that I have known a person in
this category. I recognize many of the behaviors.

https://www.psychopathfree.com/psychopathtest.php

https://www.psychopathfree.com/