Male Depression Is Different.

[Captain Caveman]

 

[Neonatal RRT]

In summary: Grumpy men = likely depression

 

[thejuice]

Confirmed: trying to get men to cry is a waste of time. Its not surprising depression is understood more from the female perspective as one estimate is 70-85% of psychotherapists are women and 65% female management of psychological services in UK. Psychiatrists is a more even split, interestingly. My personal experience of navigating the mental health services here fits these stats.

The only industry I can think of to positively discriminate men in the workforce.
"We welcome applications from people from ethnic minority backgrounds, people with disabilities and men as these groups are currently under-represented in the profession."

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Confirmed: trying to get men to cry is a waste of time.

We got Bat-tears for Bat-fears!

 

[lunarious]

Confirmed: trying to get men to cry is a waste of time.

Then your hearts hardened after that; so they are like stones, or even harder. For there are some stones from which streams gush forth, and there are some of them that split, and water issues from them, and there are some that fall for the fear of Allah. And Allah is not oblivious of what you do.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

There are cultural and social reasons why men are to have a high degree of emotional control and think logically. Most men are physically stronger than most women. "With great power comes great responsibility." "Don't ever hit a woman." and so on. Men who are quite physically and mentally capable of violence, but keep it all contained are good men, the warrior who keeps his sword sheathed. This is where the virtue is. Men who are weak and harmless are simply weak and harmless, and there is no virtue. Men who are physically capable but are emotionally weak and have little control are dangerous men, because of their emotional chaos and likelihood to lash out and cause harm. So, in general, men are expected to maintain their composure and have high degrees of emotional control. The problem with all of this, the consequences, is that we have to constantly push down our emotions. Furthermore, especially in positions of authority and power, high emotional control and self-discipline are not only expected but demanded. Furthermore, still, is that when we do finally break down emotionally, it either comes out as anger and frustration, often upsetting our female partners (and we end up apologizing), or if done in the professional realm, all respect is lost amongst one's co-workers.

So, yes, there is a toxic soup of emotions that we hold in, day in, day out, from the time we are boys until we die. No wonder the depression.

 

[lunarious]

You're missing, at least one thing.

Recently i read about Si (Introverted Sensing), as in ISTJ. Si is Sensing, so we'd think about 5 Senses but that's Se (Extroverted Sensing).

We are talking about Si, Si is inclusively about ... Internal Bodly reactions as numbness from meditation, or hunger + thirst from fasting, and so on. Eastern Traditions as Islam, Tai Chi, Zen, and Karate teach Bodily control. And Taoism.

Tao Te Ching – Verse 3
If you overesteem great men,
people become powerless.
If you overvalue possessions,
people begin to steal.

The Master leads
by emptying people’s minds
and filling their cores,
by weakening their ambition
and toughening their resolve.
He helps people lose everything
they know, everything they desire,
and creates confusion
in those who think that they know.

Practice not-doing,
and everything will fall into place.

I remember something; A Master leads by doing non-doing and thus leaves nothing undone


Tao Te Ching – Verse 3 – The Master leads by emptying people’s minds and filling their cores

Edit: The Only Master is Allah ... i humbly acknowledge i'm not Master

 

[Captain Caveman]

Confirmed: trying to get men to cry is a waste of time. Its not surprising depression is understood more from the female perspective as one estimate is 70-85% of psychotherapists are women and 65% female management of psychological services in UK. Psychiatrists is a more even split, interestingly. My personal experience of navigating the mental health services here fits these stats.

The only industry I can think of to positively discriminate men in the workforce.
"We welcome applications from people from ethnic minority backgrounds, people with disabilities and men as these groups are currently under-represented in the profession."

There has been a severe drop in men applying and taking up roles within the NHS and in education due to the universities policies to satisfy the governments anti-discrimination rules. Means that in places such as some universities in Wales, their interpretation of the rules meant white men were simply not allowed to apply for certain courses like they were in the past, which has meant a noticable lack of men applying for those types of jobs.

The most intelligent young men now go abroad to find work instead, China being one of their favourite destinations.

 

[thejuice]

Oh good, a brain drain.

 

[thejuice]

Then your hearts hardened after that; so they are like stones, or even harder. For there are some stones from which streams gush forth, and there are some of them that split, and water issues from them, and there are some that fall for the fear of Allah. And Allah is not oblivious of what you do.

I'm not saying men never cry, Im sorry I could have made it more clear. Your focus is on the other party as intended in the situation i described above.

I've cried quite a few times before being medicated, under quite severe and sustained strain. Since the medication, not once in 15 years.

That is not some kind of bizarre, fragile flex, I'm trying to show the reality for some men. Crying is the exception, anger is a far more common male emotion, especially of depressed men.

I like the stone metaphor, I see it as a comment on rigidity, a resistance to go with the flow, or a denial of feelings.

The coercement of men into outward expressions of emotion is a fools errand. This woman is spot on In the video and has made the effort to understand men instead of lazily projecting her reality onto us as the idealogues love to do.

It's doing a disservice to men to emasculate them and will cause resentment.

 

[thejuice]

We got Bat-tears for Bat-fears!

View attachment 136270

That confuses me, I'm not hip to meme humour. What do you mean?

 

[Mr. Stevens]

That confuses me, I'm not hip to meme humour. What do you mean?

I was being too silly for my own good I just meant that, though men do often hide a lot of emotions, I think many are sad more than they think. I find men highly emotional. They just tend to hide or redirect, then rationalize, their emotions. We put them in a logical context to feel logical, instead of emotional. When we do that, we can be pretty impulsive and vain. A lot of men forget that you can admit and feel emotions without having to act on them. If we can't be honest with ourselves, though, we will become pretty lost.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

The coercement of men into outward expressions of emotion is a fools errand.

I'm not saying sex is all men care about, or the point of a relationship, but since many men focus on it: I bet their sex lives would improve with more outward expression of emotion. Unless we want to attract a Lady Macbeth, who tells us we're not men unless we go to war to become little kings, giving our partner status.

If we worry to much about hiding and presentation, we'll always live in fear of others, including women. It's funny that men do this to "be men," since the female stereotype is very much presentation: makeup, fashion, social skills, etc. A facade of toughness and being emotional when your favorite team loses doesn't make men different from women--or how they think women are, at least. Only the details have changed.

Crying is wonderful. I've shared my own emotional experiences with girlfriends and cried with them when watching movies. I've also shared when I find certain music compassionate or vulnerable. All of this has only made my relationships better, especially over time. I felt attraction when I was young, but now I understand better how to be with someone.

 

[lunarious]

Crying is wonderful. I've shared my own emotional experiences with girlfriends and cried with them when watching movies. I've also shared when I find certain music compassionate or vulnerable. All of this has only made my relationships better, especially over time. I felt attraction when I was young, but now I understand better how to be with someone.

Everyone are talking about males and crying here, and it's a little theoretical for me.

Crying is wonderful, and recommended, but in lack of presice words i call it water from top. Water from top.. is Divine and recommended.

 

[DrBadStrings]

One of the interesting things I've read about male depression is the tendency to gravitate towards anger outbursts which do have a benefit to the body. When testosterone is released it has the concurrent effect of then also releasing oxytocin (our happy chemical). Seems counterproductive but we get angry in an attempt to get undepressed. At a hormonal level anyways. Anger outbursts are never really a good thing.

 

[velociraptor]

Psychiatric man-flu? Ooof.