Martial arts and yelling

[DogwoodTree]

I've been taking a martial arts self defense class for about a year now. Overall I like it. I feel more confident around people now. My instructors and one of my classmates know I have AS, and they also know a little about my trauma history and PTSD. So they've worked patiently with me.

But lately I've run into a problem. When going through defensive moves, I'm supposed to yell at certain points. There are a few reasons for this. In practice, it helps make sure I don't hold my breath during the impact of the hit or kick, and it's supposed to help me hit or kick harder. If I were actually being attacked, the yelling would alert other people that I'm in trouble and need help.

The problem is that I can't do it. I can't yell like that. It's been a year, and I've not been able to make myself do it yet. My instructors started targeting this issue over the past couple of weeks, and I'm really struggling with it. I'm scared to go into class next week because I don't want to face this.

I asked my therapist about it last week. After discussing it for several minutes and asking questions and probing for various causes, he's convinced that this is probably something I actually can't do, at least not right now. He asked if it was possible that my instructors could make an adjustment for me, and allow me to not yell. I don't know if they'll let this go, and I'm afraid to ask.

So my question is, has anyone else had a similar problem?

I can't figure out if this is trauma-related, or aspergers related. Even as a kid, I never vocalized emotional experiences. Is that because the wiring just isn't there? Or is it because of trauma experienced so early that I was never allowed to express resistance? I don't know. I do know that I feel a great deal of shame around this issue. And I feel very scared of yelling, even if no one was around. My therapist asked if I were to go out into the woods where no one could hear me, could I yell there? And I said no, I would be too afraid of it, or ashamed, or something, I don't know.

As much as I love this class otherwise, and see so much benefit that I'm getting from it, and it's the only place I go each week for any kind of social interaction at all...I'm on the verge of giving it up if I have to yell in order to keep going to class. So I'm trying to analyze and break down exactly what the dysfunction is inside my head that keeps me from doing the yelling, either so I can overcome the resistance or so I can explain it to my instructors in a way they can understand and accept.

 

[Crossbreed]

For me, it would be a case of being so focused on my [moves] that I would forget to yell. I have the same difficulty trying to sing when I am dabbling with an instrument (if that helps).

 

[DogwoodTree]

For me, it would be a case of being so focused on my [moves] that I would forget to yell. I have the same difficulty trying to sing when I am dabbling with an instrument (if that helps).

Yes, that's definitely part of the problem. In order to vocalize anything, I have to visualize the sounds--when talking, I "see" words moving across my mental visual field like a news ticker, and I read the words off the ticker. In order to go through the moves, I have to visualize my body progressing through the series of moves. So it's extremely difficult to visualize the movements AND visualize the sounds. It requires an entirely different brain process to generate the noise, and I just don't have the bandwidth to do both at the same time.

However, if it's just a matter of coordinating a variety of processes, that would simply require slowing the moves down and gradually adding in the new layer of performance until it becomes more automatic...I think.

But there's something more going on here. There's a lot of internal resistance to yelling. It's like running into a huge mental wall, and I can't find a way around it.

If this is caused by the AS, then I'm thinking it might have something to do with the chasm between my internal experience of emotions and my total lack of ability to express those emotions externally. I can describe them, but I can't express them. If this is the cause, then it might be insurmountable.

If this is caused by the trauma, then I'm thinking it might be a shame barrier erected to prevent myself from inviting more rejection and abuse from resisting someone else's imposition on me. If this is the cause, then it might be beneficial to force myself into it somehow. And yet, my therapist is highly reluctant for me to force myself into anything. But that would then mean I have to somehow justify my resistance to my instructors, and I don't know if they'll take "no" for an answer on this.

It seems like such a stupid, little thing. I already feel so awkward and out of place around people. Then to come into class and say, "I can't do this thing that everyone else does"...

 

[Mia]

It merely requires an expiration of breath, as you know Dogwood Tree. That is essentially the point of it, to control your breathing and place all of your energy in that expelled breath, along with your body. I rarely vocalize anything more than hai yah, I say a word loudly, in fact I still do so when I do the forms. Saying a word loudly for me, is not shouting or yelling.

It shouldn't be a requirement to yell, only to expel breath before a power move. At least in Taekwondo it was not emphasized. Yet, I know little about other marital arts, and it might be necessary for some of them.

If it's a requirement, you could come up with an explanation for not doing it. Your vocal cords could be highly sensitive after strep throat for example. Yet I don't know how you would feel about that, but giving it up because one small aspect of it is unattainable seems hard, because you enjoy it. I couldn't tie the belt on my dobok for a long time, my Sensei had to tie it properly. And it was a requirement to be able to do the traditional knot which I struggled with, for months.

Still attended and struggled with the knot, and was often embarrassed by it. It continually looked bad. I didn't force myself to learn to tie the knot properly, eventually decided that I could learn it and that I should be able to do it. That it wasn't as difficult as my fumbling fingers showed it to be.
Instead I worked at it before each class, and practiced tying it. It never looked as good as others. But I still followed through and did Taekwondo for many many years, in spite of my badly tied imperfect belt.

And by the way, I'm actually unable to yell loudly myself. It may have something to do with being continually silenced as a child.

 

[A.T.]

I sometimes get very caught up in whether the accommodations I need are related to condition x or condition y or condition z. Since I have more ability to affect some conditions than others (for instance, ASD or sensory processing is developmental, but it is possible to affect my BPD (borderline personality) symptoms. In other words, I get caught up in whether I should try to fix the fact that I need accommodations or not -- whether I need the accommodations or should work more on not-needing them. When I'm wrapped up in those thought processes, it is difficult for me to figure out what to do about the problem as it exists.
I might be projecting, but:
I observe that you're asking two different questions ("why is this difficulty happening" and "what is it possible to do about the difficulty") in an intertwined way. I am not sure how they are connected in your mind, but regardless of where the difficulty is rooted, it seems like right now, in the current class situation, you're unable to yell. I hope you & your teachers can respect your needs right now regardless of whether it's rooted in ASD or trauma.

1. Potential format for making a request
If you want to ask/talk to your teachers (which I think would be totally reasonable! and good!):
Since I started using the DEARMAN acronym process from DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy) to make requests, I've had more luck getting people to agree with me.
Detail on it is here: IE Handout 8
The steps are:
1. Describe [the current situation]
2. Express [how it affects you / makes your feel]
3. Assert [a potential solution, a request]
4. Reaffirm [restate how this would help you]
Also, offering alternative solutions can indicate that you're focused on solving the problem, not only on getting through your opinion, which helps reassure people that you're not manipulating or lying to them.
(Doing this over email or another written platform also works better for me, and I suspect it would for most people who struggle with body language & tone & etc.)

2. A potential alternative to yelling
I once took a karate class, and as far as I can tell, there, the breath is connected to the movements of your body, and how moving in certain ways pushes air out of your lungs.
If that's also the case in whatever you're doing, then maybe instead of yelling you can just focus on making sure your breath is placed properly -- sometimes when I'm practicing, my breath loud during certain moves even though I'm not *engaging my vocal chords*.
Going for a really loud, quick out-breath seems like it would serve all the purposes you listed that yelling should. It's not as easy for teachers to hear in a group class, but I hope they will be willing to work with you (and as teachers, imo they take on the responsibility of helping you learn, including the responsibility to work with you when you're unable to do something & to accommodate you!).

Good luck, I hope you (&/or your teachers) are able to find a way for you to keep doing the martial art, and I hope things go well.

 

[Full Steam]

Personally I'd tell them that I've been struggling so much with this that Ive considering quitting martial arts, but that I'd decide that the yell part was just not for me and I wasn't going to try it any more, but still wanted to continue. Would that be ok?

I find that some things that people tell me are essential and and easy but that I seem unable to get around are hard limits in my brain. No matter how much training or experience of simple book keeping I was given I could never be able to accurately do even the basics. Even expenses are beyond me, and thats a hard limit, so no point in trying to over come it.

Maybe you have a hard limit on bandwidth?

Do you think you could be going semi verbal? Adrenaline stops me from making and sound, and when I got in fights as a kid I was always silent.

 

[SusanLR]

I am currently working with both Tai Chi and a master that is incorporating Chinese Kung Fu styles along with it.
Even in the basic forms of Kung Fu the movement and breath correspond, but, I've never been told to yell on the outbreath move.
The idea behind this outbreath is the release of inner energy adding strength to the hard hit during fight moves.
It has come naturally to me at times to expel a loud ha
type sound with the outbreath. It happens without thought.

I've never had any problems with vocalising an emotion.
Since it gives more strength and in a true encounter if needed for self defense. And it can also distract the attacker for a moment of control.
I employed sound along with physical positions once to get away from a dog that attacked me and had my arm in his mouth for example.

IMO this is not just ASD symptom.
Seems there is something in your emotions that does not want to allow releasing an agressive outburst via sound currently.
I would not be afraid to discuss this with your instructor/s. They should be there to help you if their intentions for your development are correct.

 

[WereBear]

Maybe "blowing a raspberry"?

This would also disconcert your opponents!

 

[Judge]

It just wouldn't be the same if Leela didn't say anything with all those moves.

I'm still waiting to see her kick Dick Nixon's head right out of his glass.

 

[Mr Allen]

I might be wrong, but I suspect the "shouts" during MA fighting come from the late great Bruce Lee's "chattering" when he used to fight in movies.

 

[DogwoodTree]

It merely requires an expiration of breath, as you know Dogwood Tree. That is essentially the point of it, to control your breathing and place all of your energy in that expelled breath, along with your body.

One of the instructors says he's fine with me starting with a grunt kind of sound, so just the exhalation for that. But ultimately they want a loud noise. And it makes sense. How can I express a boundary to a potential attacker if I can't even yell "Stop!"

When I'm wrapped up in those thought processes, it is difficult for me to figure out what to do about the problem as it exists.
I might be projecting, but:
I observe that you're asking two different questions ("why is this difficulty happening" and "what is it possible to do about the difficulty") in an intertwined way. I am not sure how they are connected in your mind, but regardless of where the difficulty is rooted, it seems like right now, in the current class situation, you're unable to yell.

Hm, good point. If it's something I can fix by forcing myself into it somehow, then shouldn't I do that? Except, my therapist is more emphasizing that I should be able to say "no" moreso than having to force myself to conform to others' expectations. If it's coming from the asperger's, then I guess I feel more justified in refusing to do it, because then it's not a matter of choice. If it's coming from the trauma, I don't feel I have the ability/right to refuse to keep trying, because I should push myself through the resistance and fix the problem, even if it makes me extremely uncomfortable.

Personally I'd tell them that I've been struggling so much with this that Ive considering quitting martial arts, but that I'd decide that the yell part was just not for me and I wasn't going to try it any more, but still wanted to continue. Would that be ok?

I'm afraid of saying this to them. Partly it's because I don't want to be different from the others. I want to do what I'm supposed to do in class. I want this to be a problem I can fix and be done with it. And yet...I've still not been able to force myself to do it.

Do you think you could be going semi verbal?

This is possible. This isn't the only issue that has caused a partial shutdown for me during class. Some of the physical contact required has been extremely stressful, too. But I've pushed through those parts so far.

I've never had any problems with vocalising an emotion.
Since it gives more strength and in a true encounter if needed for self defense. And it can also distract the attacker for a moment of control.

This makes sense, and I agree it would be good for me to learn how to do this. But I've never ever been able to vocalize emotion, even in self defense during an attack of some sort. (There's one exception where the attack was more physical than anything else, and I went into a complete panic, screaming and crying and totally out of control for several minutes, but that only happened once; during all other trauma-related attacks, I was required to submit and not resist in order to avoid consequences.) Even unrelated to trauma events, I've not been able to vocalize emotion. When I'm experiencing emotion, that internal experience is cut off from external reality. I can't express what I'm experiencing. I can describe it later somewhat, but I can't express it when I'm experiencing it. People actually come to the conclusion that I'm not experiencing intense emotions at all because I don't express them in ways they recognize. But the emotions are intense, they're just cut off from any kind of expression.

So when the instructors say to tap into the anger I've felt toward my abusive parents, or toward a potential attacker, or even toward my kids at times when they've made me angry...I can't do it.

Is a an actual yell necessary or could you merely do a hard exhalation of air during the execution of a move?

My instructors really seem to want that loud yell. They're allowing for some learning curve, but the ultimate goal is high volume. This is really stressing me out.

 

[tlc]

I might be wrong, but I suspect the "shouts" during MA fighting come from the late great Bruce Lee's "chattering" when he used to fight in movies.

I don't watch MA but I get what you're saying. My opinion anyway, if the shouts don't come naturally then it sounds just cheezy and stereotypical.

If a deep quiet outbreath works best for you (OP), I think it should be accepted. Sounds to me like they want you to fit a mold and be a showpiece, rather than be the best you can actually be.

 

[Mia]

One of the instructors says he's fine with me starting with a grunt kind of sound, so just the exhalation for that. But ultimately they want a loud noise. And it makes sense. How can I express a boundary to a potential attacker if I can't even yell "Stop!"

True. I've had a similar problem with raising my voice. Maybe it's time to learn to shout. Perhaps the holding of yourself in, not expressing your anger, and attempts to take your voice away is about to change. I think you'll know when your ready to do so.

 

[aspieoutlaw89]

i would use this against the oppression of all the neuro diverse people in the world,along with anything lovey dove (things that remind me of a tragic break up )

 

[Ronin82]

I have a problem with being able to verbalize while moving. If I'm concentrating on movement, I can't verbalize. My instructors know this (I keep nothing hidden when it comes to my conditions in class), so they know I can EITHER vocalize, or move, but not both while learning. I also have shame and other PTSD-type issues around emotional expression, especially anger, so I understand the block you're having. Thankfully, my instructors aren't so concerned about volume since I'm in a Ki-Aikido group (aiki-fruities). I hope you and your instructors can come to a good compromise. A good instructor will work with you on this. I've studied hard styles for years, and loud yelling is important for some things, but for the most part just isn't necessary if you aren't competing. Good luck on this!