Masks for different reasons

[Fridgemagnetman]

Everyone wears a mask.

Neurodiverse to fit in socially.
Neurotypical to fit in socially.

The neurodiverse mask can often not be very good,slips and thoughts,deeds become evident.
The individual can then be made fun of,ostracized even.

The neurotypical - the same.

There is a stress to maintaining the mask in the real world.

I'm wondering about the different purposes of the masks between neurotypical and neurodiverse.

How that behavior manifests in the only world.

Gross generalisation arrival time : next sentence.
.
The neurotypical relief of acting without a mask can reveal the inconsiderate yahoo manifesting in a you tube comment, the thought without consideration.

Neurodiverse can be the same, but can it also be something more?

Ie people who are used to being honest direct ,normally, does their online behaviour (by this i mean sort of their level of thought and consideration towards others) change much in an online context?

The online world can be sort of a 'schools out' feeling - no more rules etc I can say what I want.

What am i aiming at?
Do you think there is a different response in the online world - NT vs ND - as a result of their different starting points in the real world?

Social pretence vs honesty moves online.....

 

[tree]

I was hoping this was going to be about
tangible masks, like for health/work activities
or costuming.

The concept of "social mask" is very unpleasant to me.

 

[LucyPurrs]

Lots of food for thought. My initial response is that for me, the main difference in my behavior on Facebook, is that I'm a lot more vocal about political stuff. Otherwise no, I don't think there's a big difference in how I act on line vs irl except on this site I am MUCH more open about expressing feelings than irl. Don't have any other social presences besides Facebook and this site.

 

[Bolletje]

There used to be a lot of different versions of me, depending on my circumstances. But as I grow older, more accepting of myself and more comfortable in my own (aging ) skin, I find that my masked and unmasked self are becoming more similar.

My mask was mostly about hiding my emotions behind a carefully crafted tough/carefree/party girl/rebel persona. I learned that people like smiles, so I always smiled. I learned that people are intimidated by displays of knowledge, so I usually refrained from intellectual discussions. I spent so much time and energy maintaining this façade that I really had no clue what I was feeling most of the time.

In the last few years I have learned recognize my own emotions, and I've learned to be vulnerable. I no longer perceive emotions as weaknesses, and I am not ashamed of having emotions. I've reached the point where I'm comfortable discussing my emotions offline as well. To me it's very liberating to be able to admit to others how overwhelmed I feel from time to time. I've gained a lot of friends because of how open I am these days.

 

[pjcnet]

Most people are wearing various different masks virtually all the time whether autistic or not, for example when people go out to posh venues where they are especially polite and on their best behaviour to make a good impression it's a mask, or even in a bar or nightclub where they dress up well hoping to meet people, then at work people often put on another mask and another mask is often used when around children, these are just a few examples. Most people don't totally remove their mask to other people until they know them extremely well, usually when they've been living with each-other and often when married, but even then it can take a long time for the mask to be removed completely and sometimes it's never totally removed. The problem is sometimes when a person finally discovers their partner's true self behind their mask they don't always like it and that's a common reason for divorce. What a person is like in public and behind closed doors are often totally different.

One of the biggest masks are in my opinion worn by people in the public eye, especially politicians where everything is about making a good impression. One of the most infamous people to wear a mask was in my opinion Adolf Hitler, when he was allegedly secretly recorded he sounded like a totally different soft speaking person, please click here for more. Even then Hitler was probably still wearing a different mask to when he was in public, although it was probably closer to his true self.

If you don't think you wear a mask, would you for instance fart in front of a potential new partner that you really liked on a first date? But you may well fart at home alone without worrying about it, perhaps along with other habits that you wouldn't usually share, lol!

Masks in the online world still exist, especially when people and businesses try to make a good impression, and sometimes it's actually easier to fool people with such masks, for instance there's masses of online scams people actually still fall for on the word of criminals that are obviously wearing a mask. In many online situations however it's often to a lessor degree, especially when only text is involved and people are talking to people they've never met or are unlikely to ever meet when they're not trying to represent the good impression of a business or organisation. Again I think this is the same for both autistic and NTs, although online communities such as this one can help many autistic people to come out of their shell because it's often much easier to communicate like this than in person. Also online it's much more difficult for people spot the difference between NTs and autistic people when the autistic person doesn't wish this information to be known.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

My mask was mostly about hiding my emotions behind a carefully crafted tough/carefree/party girl/rebel persona

Didnt do the party girl - but mine was agression (didnt really realise) so that i could shut down emotions as i was scared to feel and didnt want to remembersome stuff.

spent so much time and energy maintaining this façade that I really had no clue what I was feeling most of the time.

In the last few years I have learned recognize my own emotions, and I've learned to be vulnerable.

I didnt really have a clue, the longer i hid from past pain, the harder the work to maintain. About 30 that all changed. The saying sometimes the longest way round is the shortest way home sort of fits - i aas losing it, so i ended my old life before it was ended for me.

Learning to express and recognise my emotions is my work in progress
Letting go of that agressive stance (long time ago now ) was amazing but took time.

Whilst,at the same time, trying to say as many stupid things as i possibly can

 

[Bolletje]

Learning to express and recognise my emotions is my work in progress
Letting go of that agressive stance (long time ago now ) was amazing but took time.

Whilst,at the same time, trying to say as many stupid things as i possibly can

Self-deprecating humor and intentional idiocy are a winner's tools!

 

[Progster]

I have a public persona for work and a private persona. I also think I have a slightly different online persona, an idea I also explored in the thread on the topic I made a week or so ago. I agree with others that this is something that most people develop for different situations they encounter. I find this hard to do - it involves a certain amount of acting and a good grasp of social situations and what's expected, and I don't always manage it or get it right. NTs are much better at this.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Self-deprecating humor and intentional idiocy are a winner's tools!

No disagreement here.

Without those two my occasional seriousness would be all that's left.

 

[LucyPurrs]

I have a public persona for work and a private persona. I also think I have a slightly different online persona, an idea I also explored in the thread on the topic I made a week or so ago. I agree with others that this is something that most people develop for different situations they encounter. I find this hard to do - it involves a certain amount of acting and a good grasp of social situations and what's expected, and I don't always manage it or get it right. NTs are much better at this.

Yeah it could certainly be that I'm unaware of my "masks" since I don't consciously put them on or off. But I'm also not very social at all and retired so don't have so much need for many different masks.

 

[Mia]

I see more unthinking responses online under the guise of 'honesty' as a weapon. These I attribute to poor reasoning skills, to the young and old, to the disenfranchised. I've become so immune to these 'outbursts' that I rarely look for any grains of truth in them.

They seem to consist of surges of misplaced and left behind segments of society attempting to throttle change in the world. Because it's too rapid for them to adapt to, and new is difficult. They wish very often, for things to remain as they were.

A kind of virtual reality sockpuppet; That doesn't want to learn anything new or different or understand what others might think. Their world is already in place and it must stay that way. No new voices giving their opinions, and causing tiny cracks in their reality. That might make them think that the world they live in is not perfect, or unquestionable. It's makes their reality somewhat false and prescribed, if it's questioned, a kind of thin breakable shell. It makes it unjustifiable and therefore under threat.

And people under threat, respond with all their weapons. So that things remain the same. I find most Aspies more adaptable than this, they have to move between these worlds much of the time. So, even though it might take a longer time to adapt to change, they are used to doing it, and don't consider it anything more than the way things are.

 

[Chance]

I don't 'hang out" in any other social forums... I read You Tube, Yahoo, Goggle, comments and some of them are awful on stuff I truly like... So I just don't get into that mess. People have really weird ways in how they take things... (as though I don't <hypocrite)...

This is where I pull the mask off... I just let the real me show, but I always try to be considerate to what might offend others... I'm in no way perfect, but at the same time I try and let the real me sort of roll with whatever people want to discuss.

If I don't relate, or I'm struggling with the topic, I read it and just stay quite.

I need all the energy I can to hold that "mask" on out in real world... Ug : )

 

[LucyPurrs]

This is where I pull the mask off... I just let the real me show, but I always try to be considerate to what might offend others... I'm in no way perfect, but at the same time I try and let the real me sort of roll with whatever people want to discuss.

IMO you are very successful at being authentic on this forum- at least that's the feeling I get from reading your posts.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

kind of virtual reality sockpuppet; That doesn't want to learn anything new or different or understand what others might think

Virtual reality sockpuppet is slightly unbeatable! Time is spent on not standing out,conforming perhaps. Groupthink.

makes their reality somewhat false and prescribed, if it's questioned, a kind of thin breakable shell. It makes it unjustifiable and therefore under threat.

I wonder how this fits in with personal identity. The 'I' can develop socially as the group reflects ideas back to it and there is a social context to everything the I thinks it is. This could be why disagreements can reflect badly on the sense of the social self - making people look bad is therefore defended strongly as the social self (how the group views that individual) is based on a variable,changing premise- group dynamics.

The false and prescribed aspect is something I always think of in terms of mkdern media. How people are easily influenced. Each human emotion has been used, whether its to buy a coke or to have a simple view of immigration implanted which becomes your own. With many the first thougnt is often the last thought - instead of the start of the journey.

Whereas ND identity may form more by itself in some ways. Or lstracism,isolation, special interest..

find most Aspies more adaptable than this, they have to move between these worlds much of the time.

Spend your life fighting to be understood,not knowing why, figuring out your own way. This can lead to much more flexibility than those in the group.

Essentially we're playing a different game. But are the masks we all have for very different reasons?

 

[Mia]

I wonder how this fits in with personal identity. The 'I' can develop socially as the group reflects ideas back to it and there is a social context to everything the I thinks it is. This could be why disagreements can reflect badly on the sense of the social self - making people look bad is therefore defended strongly as the social self (how the group views that individual) is based on a variable,changing premise- group dynamics.

If you are a member of a group, and you don't ascribe to it's way of being it's difficult to not be cast out. It's a closed unit, where little makes its way in without approval. It succumbs to stagnation as a closed unit, few new ideas make their way in. It defends itself with it's rules and structures, and rarely questions them. In doing so, it protects the unit and the members within it. They all keep their places, roles and function and nothing alters that. Unless of course there is a power struggle within, then things change somewhat.

With many the first thougnt is often the last thought - instead of the start of the journey.
Whereas ND identity may form more by itself in some ways. Or lstracism,isolation, special interest..

Many people don't question things, they would rather have someone reiterate their chosen and comfortable world, where they understand all the parameters. It makes it less stressful, known. Less to consider and think about, more time for rest and recreation. Although that might also be a function of becoming older in years.
ND's that I know, do continue to learn one way or the other, some in general ways, some in specific areas of interest. Brain 'wiring' might be a indicator here along with a desire to understand or figure all of it out, like a puzzle.

The masks that we take on and off are and were for survival. Neanderthal's bred with homo erectus, and homo habilis and other groups unknown, and did so for advantages of survival as well as circumstance and adaptation. Perhaps in the hiding, we all gain something.

 

[Nervous Rex]

My mask is a poker face. When I realized that my emotions were more extreme than everyone else around me, I started trying to learn to regulate my emotions. I tried to "play it cool" like the people around me. That led to me completely removing all emotion from my face.

Now, I find that I only let my guard down around people I completely trust, like my wife, and a few family members and friends. They may actually see emotion in my face.

Everyone else sees a polite and professional robot.

I'm trying to decide if I need to change this. I've realized that I need to try to be more human and personable at work, but I'm not sure I can gauge exactly how open to be. I'd rather be a little too closed than be the TMI-guy.

This is typical me. Tackling an emotional question by ignoring all emotion and over-analyzing it.

 

[Gracey]

I think in my minds eye, I'd always imagined wearing a uniform than a mask for each of my different roles.

Wife, sister, daughter, aunt, mom, colleague, confidante, boss, carer, student, protector ...and so on and so on.

The job spec' for the role would determine who I was at the time, perspective, attitude, passions. (Gleaned from stereotyping and observation)

I had considered I was bordering on Dissasociative Identity Disorder at one point in my life but more research and spending time in the company of a diagnosed patient meant I could observe differences in what I do and what they did.

I honestly couldn't state with absolute certainty that non neuro diverse wear masks for different reasons, I could only speculate going on the assumption of judgement.

Hiding or disguising the traits, habits, views most likely to receive judgement from others and possible rejection (?) Masking the truth or true self (?)

 

[WereBear]

The neurotypical relief of acting without a mask can reveal the inconsiderate yahoo manifesting in a you tube comment, the thought without consideration.

It is their unfiltered Id, I always thought

Do you think there is a different response in the online world - NT vs ND - as a result of their different starting points in the real world?

That is an intriguing concept. As children, we are shown the wanted behavior, but it is certainly more puzzling and intense for NDs, I think. Or perhaps we just question it more, thinking back to my own childhood. I didn't shrug off inexplicable behavior the way the people around me did. I wanted a good reason for doing things. For being things.

One of the biggest masks are in my opinion worn by people in the public eye, especially politicians where everything is about making a good impression. One of the most infamous people to wear a mask was in my opinion Adolf Hitler, when he was allegedly secretly recorded he sounded like a totally different soft speaking person, please click here for more. Even then Hitler was probably still wearing a different mask to when he was in public, although it was probably closer to his true self.

The intriguing new Hitler biography, Hitler: Ascent, 1889-1939, makes a claim that is new and fascinating to me: that Hitler was an incredible actor. That he studied for years to create a persona that would move crowds. The author posits that if Hitler had "gone legit" instead of being a power-mad psychopath, he could have more benignly gotten the recognition he craved. Which is probably true. Though no one would have wanted to work with him...

They seem to consist of surges of misplaced and left behind segments of society attempting to throttle change in the world. Because it's too rapid for them to adapt to, and new is difficult. They wish very often, for things to remain as they were.

We live in a time of very fast change, or at least, acceptance of change in many segments of society. I am only middle aged, and yet the world of my childhood seems as different to to the 20-somethings I work with as a few hundred years ago.

I find most Aspies more adaptable than this, they have to move between these worlds much of the time. So, even though it might take a longer time to adapt to change, they are used to doing it, and don't consider it anything more than the way things are.

Mental gear shifting is probably more pronounced in NDs because we keep the truth more separate. From what I see, we can't do what NTs do: which is conform so completely they often lose track of their true self, and never get it back.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

That is an intriguing concept. As children, we are shown the wanted behavior, but it is certainly more puzzling and intense for NDs, I think. Or perhaps we just question it more, thinking back to my own childhood. I didn't shrug off inexplicable behavior the way the people around me did. I wanted a good reason for doing things. For being things

The unfiltered id as you also mention - in one way it can be an eternal search of who am I? - for the ND perhaps 'fitting in' all those other behaviours have to be done consciously,at least at first.
The 'who am I' question being just the other half of the circle which also has 'who are they,what are they doing and why?'
A process the NT has no need for.

Mental gear shifting is probably more pronounced in NDs because we keep the truth more separate. From what I see, we can't do what NTs do: which is conform so completely they often lose track of their true self, and never get it back.

Did they ever have that sense in the first place? If it's a socially formed self - the only crisis is when you are removed from society. That process,itself can bring the unconscious natural process of the self into the conscious mind.
So in that time of questioning oneself :
Whilst I may be going through angst in a wilderness somewhere, a NT will be garnering opinion amonst peers to form a consensus so that the correct form of thought and action can be agreed. If something bad that was said, it wasnt really meant. That face saving thing. Which is a way to repair the sense of the socially based self.

Personally a part of 'me' was formed in isolation and losing out in social aspects and another part was formed through reading. Mix in oscar wilder,early stephen king, the bible, a wild selection of 18th century books and you can end up with a slighlty different social reference than your peers, who may be talking about a new car or girlfriend.
I think I was trying to get a world view as well as a sense of what a self should be, the german word weltanschauung which I read in a book somewhere.
Although perhaps a secret pleasure is schadenfreude but that would be off topic and back to @Mia s revenge!

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Neanderthal's bred with homo erectus, and homo habilis and other groups unknown, and did so for advantages of survival as well as circumstance and adaptation. P

Dirt birds.

Perhaps in the hiding, we all gain something

Liked this but wasnt sure what to add