Mature introvert brother with AS and socialisation, objections

[FPanda]

I've been reading on this forum for a couple of weeks in the service of two Aspies in my life. One of these is my older brother, 46 years old. His AS-related social and functional impairments have relegated him to living with our parents. He works intermittently at jobs that generally offer little social engagement. He hasn't dated since a girlfriend at university ridiculed him for his traits. He spends time as a lurker on forums devoted to his special interests but never interacts. He can go a week or more at a stretch without leaving the house whatsoever. I would characterise our family as informed about AS and supportive.

My brother is objectively attractive, intelligent and kind-hearted, and we would all like to see him stretch himself a bit socially. He does seem to be lonely but he insists he has nothing to offer in conversation. We disagree, though we try to be respectful of his boundaries for discussing it. He has been assessed for clinical depression at several points in his life but the doctors don't seem to think that's the problem (?).

I cautiously suggested he consider joining a forum like this one where he might feel understood and people would be more forgiving. At first I saw a hint of genuine interest but he quickly convinced himself it wouldn't work for him. That's how he is; he invariably responds to any outside suggestions with a list of reasons why they won't work. This seems to come from fear and a lack of self-confidence, but years of tactful positive messaging have had no effect.

Has anyone here come from a similar perspective? How did you manage to overcome your reservations about socialising, at least with other autistics? Is there any point in gently pressing the issue, or would it likely have the opposite effect of what's intended (based on what I've said here)? How do we encourage an Aspie with this attitude about himself without triggering a cascade of objections?

Thank you in advance for your replies.

 

[StephF]

I have had to learn to socialise as I grew up. I analysed people a bit like an anthropologist to see why they did certain things.

 

[Beverly]

No but, he sounds like my ex step son who is the single most annoying person I know. No matter what anyone suggests that might help him solve a problem he is having, or better his life or, himself, he has a list of EXCUSES as to why he can't, why it won't work for him, what bad things will happen if he even tries.

You know what? I gave up on him. if all he wants in life is to live in a camping trailer and drive a 15 year old car that needs worked on every day just to keep it going, then he can do that without my help. Now with him, since he insists on come to see me once or twice a month, wanting to earn extra money, the rules are simple. He is not to discuss his life, girls or problems at all, he is not to ask me for help beyond doing the work I give him and getting paid. He will do what he is told, how he is told and, complete it in a reasonable amount of time. I will then pay him and, he will leave.

I hate being like that with him, but I do not want to hear his problems when the result will me angry because all he can to is give me the "I can't" whine.

That has nothing to do with ASD or any other disability or illness, it's a attitude of "woe is me, I'll never do anything right, I'm doomed to fail at everything."

Every human being on this planet has unique challenges and struggles and, those of us who WANT to succeed badly enough do. We do whatever it takes to manage and overcome our challenges and struggles and, we never say "I can't." We might say "This is going to be the hardest thing I've ever done, it's going to be embarrassing, it's going to hurt, I'm going to hate this, etc..." but NEVER "I can't." because the truth is we can, we may fail but, a failure is simply how we learn what doesn't work, keep at it, eventually you eliminate every possibility that doesn't work and, find the one that does - success. And by actually doing it, you prove, without a doubt that it in fact does not work for you, so you need to try something else. No one will ever be able to accuse you of not trying.

 

[FPanda]

No but, he sounds like my ex step son who is the single most annoying person I know. No matter what anyone suggests that might help him solve a problem he is having, or better his life or, himself, he has a list of EXCUSES as to why he can't, why it won't work for him, what bad things will happen if he even tries.

You know what? I gave up on him. if all he wants in life is to live in a camping trailer and drive a 15 year old car that needs worked on every day just to keep it going, then he can do that without my help. Now with him, since he insists on come to see me once or twice a month, wanting to earn extra money, the rules are simple. He is not to discuss his life, girls or problems at all, he is not to ask me for help beyond doing the work I give him and getting paid. He will do what he is told, how he is told and, complete it in a reasonable amount of time. I will then pay him and, he will leave.

I hate being like that with him, but I do not want to hear his problems when the result will me angry because all he can to is give me the "I can't" whine.

That has nothing to do with ASD or any other disability or illness, it's a attitude of "woe is me, I'll never do anything right, I'm doomed to fail at everything."

Every human being on this planet has unique challenges and struggles and, those of us who WANT to succeed badly enough do. We do whatever it takes to manage and overcome our challenges and struggles and, we never say "I can't." We might say "This is going to be the hardest thing I've ever done, it's going to be embarrassing, it's going to hurt, I'm going to hate this, etc..." but NEVER "I can't." because the truth is we can, we may fail but, a failure is simply how we learn what doesn't work, keep at it, eventually you eliminate every possibility that doesn't work and, find the one that does - success. And by actually doing it, you prove, without a doubt that it in fact does not work for you, so you need to try something else. No one will ever be able to accuse you of not trying.

My goodness. I'm—shocked—at the tone of this response. The strength of emotion on show makes it difficult to see it as an answer to my questions; it reads more like transference and an exposition on your personal frustration with people who aren't like yourself.

Is your stepson autistic? If not, I wouldn't necessarily see this as a one-to-one comparison. From anything I've read about Asperger's, the tendency I've described is absolutely relevant to the condition. Most every in-depth book, article and study on Aspie behaviour that I have read cites rigid thinking and resistance to change as commonplace.

This post makes me re-think the wisdom of encouraging my brother to seek interaction with other Aspies. There may be no more sensitivity or insight here than anywhere else.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough that I made this post out of love.

 

[peoplesrjames]

I'm having an issue like this. The difference is Im the AS. I'm an introvert but once I get to know people I love socializing with them. I'm good at meeting new people if I'm with someone I already know. I'm also willing to jump into forums. However, I'm unmotivated when it comes to finding a relationship and cleaning my room. My roommate is always on me about it because he doesn't want me to be lonely and thinks that finding a man and cleaning my room will make me happier. But I can never be motivated to do it.

 

[FPanda]

I'm having an issue like this. The difference is Im the AS. I'm an introvert but once I get to know people I love socializing with them. I'm good at meeting new people if I'm with someone I already know. I'm also willing to jump into forums. However, I'm unmotivated when it comes to finding a relationship and cleaning my room. My roommate is always on me about it because he doesn't want me to be lonely and thinks that finding a man and cleaning my room will make me happier. But I can never be motivated to do it.

Thank you for your kind response. I was feeling quite done with this idea, but you may have hit on something with your comment about meeting new people with someone you already know. I might suggest to my brother that I would be willing to do something like this with him rather than urging him to go it alone. I can think of reasons why he might feel self-conscious with me around, but I wouldn't necessarily have to stay very long. He does try new things more readily when he has companionship.

I'm sorry you feel so unmotivated. That's a word I can definitely apply to my brother. It's not that he doesn't want to do things; it's more as though something has convinced him that the effort involved isn't worth the reward. Or maybe it's a lack of self-love? I don't know. But I appreciate your insights and hope that if you really do want something for yourself, you will find the drive to do it in your own time.

It's worth saying that I don't believe the state you find yourself in is reflective of your character. If there is one thing I've learned from my relationship with my brother, it's that a very good person can still be stubborn or lack motivation.

 

[peoplesrjames]

Thank you for your kind response. I was feeling quite done with this idea, but you may have hit on something with your comment about meeting new people with someone you already know. I might suggest to my brother that I would be willing to do something like this with him rather than urging him to go it alone. I can think of reasons why he might feel self-conscious with me around, but I wouldn't necessarily have to stay very long. He does try new things more readily when he has companionship.

I'm sorry you feel so unmotivated. That's a word I can definitely apply to my brother. It's not that he doesn't want to do things; it's more as though something has convinced him that the effort involved isn't worth the reward. Or maybe it's a lack of self-love? I don't know. But I appreciate your insights and hope that if you really do want something for yourself, you will find the drive to do it in your own time.

It's worth saying that I don't believe the state you find yourself in is reflective of your character. If there is one thing I've learned from my relationship with my brother, it's that a very good person can still be stubborn or lack motivation.

Yeah, normally at gatherings, I got with a friend. That way I'm kind of comfortable enough to not be so closed off to everyone else.

As far as being motivated, like the thing now is apparently my room isn't clean and I'm not really into fashion. Those are just things that don't matter to me. I'm told that if I clean those up I can find a relationship. I'll start off trying to change it and then when weeks or so go by with no results I just deem it as futile.

 

[Joel I]

I'm having a real hard time with loneness atm. I moved to a new city a year ago and can't find work, have no close friends but do have a partner. I often are scared to leave the house even though I'm not happy in it. I feel that my partner doesn't understand and just says that I need to go out and get a job. I left my family over a decade ago for reasons of abuse and have usually found a small group of close friends but I can't where I'm living now. I find that online I can be a lot more social cause I'm only telling my laptop, I don't need to post anything if I don't want and don't have to leave the safety of my house.

 

[watersprite]

FPanda I am diagnosed with HFA, anxiety, NVLD.
I have always had serious problems with change, motivation and socializing. I have accomplished very little in life and what I have done is seen as odd, shallow and a "fail" when compared to ways of NT's. While I had the help of others to get some big changes done, (B.S. degree, for example) the only way that works/ed for me was 1. I have to be the one who wants to do whatever it is, and 2. The goal or activity has to be done in mini steps which are laid out ahead of time on paper, giving me lots of time to get comfortable with what it's going to be like. I need lots of small rewards or payoffs to keep myself going.

It is difficult to talk about this even though I know why I am the way I am.

I very much disagree with the critical, negative attitude expressed by some.

I hope you enjoy your brother's company and that he has peace in his living situation.

 

[dkpfrog]

FPanda I too struggle with interacting with new people, especially solo, and my biggest challenge on the spectrum is motivation. I'm 31 and still need help cleaning my own room. Oddly enough i can help anyone else with theirs if they ask but can't do my own. I can't stand teasing, it makes me extremely uncomfortable and fewer things will drive me from a relationship faster. I haven't dated in at least six years because what could anyone ever see in me? It's taken a lot of genuine invitations and more prying from a coworker to get me out of an evening but I'm always glad when i go. Keep working together with your brother and best wishes

 

[FPanda]

I'm told that if I clean those up I can find a relationship.

Do you want a relationship? Or is that something other people want for you? You might very well want one, but I've noticed that allistic people tend to expect everyone to adhere to social norms that may not be priorities to the neurodiverse. That's been a problem for my brother. It took me a long time to get it through my skull that he doesn't always want the standard options we've all been taught to value.

Regardless, I disagree that cleaning your room and changing your wardrobe would be a magical passport to finding a relationship. Something else we allistics do is creating facades we can't maintain in pursuit of romance, and it's a mistake we never seem to learn from. For myself, I'd rather find someone who would love me just as I am. (Maybe that's why I'm single! )

I often are scared to leave the house even though I'm not happy in it. I feel that my partner doesn't understand and just says that I need to go out and get a job. I left my family over a decade ago for reasons of abuse and have usually found a small group of close friends but I can't where I'm living now. I find that online I can be a lot more social cause I'm only telling my laptop, I don't need to post anything if I don't want and don't have to leave the safety of my house.

This may be too personal to ask, but why are you afraid to leave the house?

Where do you look to find friends? I'm not about to try to give you advice. I'm just curious.

I have accomplished very little in life and what I have done is seen as odd, shallow and a "fail" when compared to ways of NT's. While I had the help of others to get some big changes done, (B.S. degree, for example) the only way that works/ed for me was 1. I have to be the one who wants to do whatever it is, and 2. The goal or activity has to be done in mini steps which are laid out ahead of time on paper, giving me lots of time to get comfortable with what it's going to be like. I need lots of small rewards or payoffs to keep myself going.

It is difficult to talk about this even though I know why I am the way I am.

Thank you for being so open with me despite how difficult it is for you. I greatly appreciate everything you've said, especially #2, highlighted above. I'm interested to see of my brother has ever identified any sort of system that helps him accomplish things. If he hasn't, I'll tell him about yours and let him sit with it. This is exactly why I think it could be helpful for him to communicate with other neurodiverse people. Learning what others do that works for them may have value. Right now all he has is input from a small circle of people who love and support him but can't understand his experience very well.

For what it's worth, NTs aren't monolithic and do an awful lot of "failing" of our own, even in a society that's built for us. And if you have earned a BS, you've accomplished something (increasingly) important that three-quarters of adults in the U.S. and UK haven't. I'm 41 and come from a wealthy suburb where children have every advantage for success. Of the six lads who made up my circle in primary school, only three have degrees—out of six that tried. Just that one success of yours speaks very well of your abilities even if you feel you needed a lot of help. I didn't get my own degree without support either: Trips to writing and maths tutors, meetings with instructors, money and moral support from family, and lots of help from friends when I got stuck mentally or emotionally. I don't mean to lecture. I just want you to know you have done better than you might think.

FPanda I too struggle with interacting with new people, especially solo, and my biggest challenge on the spectrum is motivation. I'm 31 and still need help cleaning my own room. Oddly enough i can help anyone else with theirs if they ask but can't do my own. I can't stand teasing, it makes me extremely uncomfortable and fewer things will drive me from a relationship faster. I haven't dated in at least six years because what could anyone ever see in me? It's taken a lot of genuine invitations and more prying from a coworker to get me out of an evening but I'm always glad when i go. Keep working together with your brother and best wishes

The motivation theme just keeps repeating. It has been so helpful to read stories from other people who share my brother's problems. His room is a wreck, too, though he seems fine with it. I'm starting to think this particular commonality might not be caused by a lack of motivation in the proper sense. Is it possible that keeping things tidy is just another social norm that many neurodiverse people don't rate as a priority? Maybe I need to suggest to my parents that (what we see as) the mess isn't a sign of anything concerning. The other Aspie I know also has a very messy house.

You've hit on something about not wanting to do things but being glad after you've done them anyway. My brother does that too. Why do you think that lesson never holds the next time you get an invitation?


You've all been so helpful! I'm glad I came back despite early discouragement.

 

[Joel I]

For me I'm scared of the strangers and the amount of humans that live in the city I moved to last year. I find friends in mutual interest groups (like church or the bat clinic I volunteer at) usually, or work in the past. On the relationship note, I was very uninterested in them until I strangely ended up in one. Now my partner is a good support but still learning how to deal with my idiosyncrasies.