Me? No. Maybe.

[Jeremy French]

I'm still in the process of deciding. All comments, suggestions, opinions or derisions are welcome.

My story begins, not - ironically enough - when my own brother (Joshy, adopted, currently 19) was diagnosed with Asperger's, but years afterward, when I was minding my own business, tooling around on the Internet, and read this post on Quora:

https://www.quora.com/As-someone-with-ASD-do-you-have-any-savant-abilities/answer/Gabriel-Flood

I was floored.

Mr. Flood was describing an ability (the first one, which he terms hyperception) that I have always had, have never really discussed with anyone aside from my wife, and was fully convinced was entirely unique to me, based on a particular combination of factors from my childhood. And it wasn't just that his ability bore a striking similarity to mine. It was exact. Right down to his explanation of how I do it. I was (I don't think it's hyperbole to say) freaked out.

Luckily, after about an hour of thoroughly distracting myself from even considering the implications of such a revelation, I decided to reach out to Mr. Flood, and he was quite gracious in not only responding, but even having a bit of a conversation with me. He seemed to think rather strongly that this hyperception ability was linked to his Asperger's.

But that didn't make sense to me, because I didn't have Asperger's. My brother, Joshy is the poster boy for Asperger's. Loud, completely clueless as to social interactions, often barging in to interrupt an ongoing conversation, lifelong obsession with trains, problems with eye contact, gets hyper-stressed by loud sudden noises (and also very sweet and accepting and friendly to all types from all walks of life) - all the classic symptoms. And I'm nothing like him. Ok, maybe I seem to understand him better than the rest of the family, but I'm also quite a bit higher in the IQ department from the rest of my family, and I'm really good at understanding how people think, so that was pretty easy to explain.

But Mr. Flood seemed to think this hyperception ability was related directly to Asperger's, and he seemed like a pretty smart guy. So I started looking into it. I took all the online quizes, and failed every one. They all said I was neuro-typical.

I started looking at the indicators: problems maintaining eye contact: nope. Social awkwardness: not really. In fact I was the class clown in high school. I'm introverted, but that's not the same thing. Loud noises: No. Rocking motion: No. Needs routine: definitely not. Quite the opposite, actually. I get stressed out if my days start to become routine. Self-stimming: nope. Narrow interests: no. I have had an extra large number of interests, actually, and I never really go back to them once I've mastered them. Uncoordinated? Nope, played sports all through high school. Sensitivity to textures? No.

Alright, so, Mr. Flood must just be wrong. Obviously, we have something in common, but it must be something else, and he's just mistaken about what the commonality must be.

So, I'm feeling pretty confident in my self-diagnosis as Neuro-typical. My wife, who I've been sharing my experience with, is also dubious at the notion of me having Asperger's. And, for several reasons, neither one of us really want this to be true, anyway. So my conclusions thus far are awfully convenient.

However, I'm not one who's quick to jump to a conclusion, so I keep poking around a little, trying to get myself educated on exactly what this thing is. And then the doubts start creeping in.

First, I find that "special interests" don't have to be unchanging, life-long. It's more a hyper focused obsession with them, almost to the exclusion of all else. Hmm. Well, yeah, I mean, I do that. That's how I've learned all the amazing list of things I know how to do : hypnotism, duck husbandry, various programming languages, RC Helicopters, roundwood timber framing, each and every video game I've ever played, solar power, permaculture and homesteading, aquaponics, and literally probably dozens more I can't even remember, because I'm done with them.

Then I learn that adults with Asperger's usually have learned to mask their symptoms. Socially awkward? Not really. I've tried really hard not to be. Ohhhhhh. I've had to try really hard not to be. Have I ever accidentally offended someone? Pssshhh! All. The. Time. Do I find myself quickly back-peddling to smooth over when someone's taken something the wrong way? Almost every conversation I have, especially with someone who doesn't know me, unless I keep it super simple and stick to the acceptable topics and opinions list. It's part of why I'm an introvert, because it's so exhausting trying to talk to people without offending them or making them think I'm some kind of pervert or axe murderer or something.

Then Mr. Flood explained that the routine can be specific. Like, each day being completely randomized, and you might take a shower at any time of the day, but when you take a shower, it's always in exactly the same sequence, and you don't like it when stuff has been moved and not put back. Uh.. uh-oh. And he tells me that one of the ways it manifests in him is that he likes to play MMOs (world-of-warcraft type games for you non gamers) and he likes to figure out the exact best way to level up a character in the fastest, most efficient way possible, and then do it that way over and over again. Hmm. That's me too.

Then I came across this video:

- Asperger's, not what you think it is | Krister Palo | TEDxYouth@ISH
YouTube - Jul 9, 2015

This was heartbreakingly familiar. Here was this kid who had clearly watched and studied what makes a good TED Talk. He had crafted his performance with precision and care. He included just the right amount of humor. He had moments of insight and profound clarity. He had good pacing, good inflection and projectuin, and good, helpful things to say. He even paused at the appropriate points to let the audience laugh. But they didn't laugh. This, more than anything, felt familiar. Doing everything right, putting enormous amounts of effort into crafting an excellent presentation, and the audience just doesn't play it's part. He didn't have the audience, and he either didn't know it, or he knew but didn't know how to get it back. If Bradley Cooper had delivered that exact same presentation with the exact same script, he'd have had the audience eating out of the palm of his hand, but this kid couldn't get so much as a pity laugh. This was me. This was another stunning example of someone, diagnosed with Asperger's, demonstrating my experience with the world.

I still don't know for sure, to be honest. There are some indicators that are right on the nose. There are some indicators that are so foriegn to me, I don't know how they could possibly be the same thing as what I am. I have known for a long time that my mind worked profoundly differently than those around me.

Yes, everybody is different, but I am fundamentally different on a whole other level - to the point where I genuinely start to wonder if I'm a different species entirely. As I like to say to my wife, I'm weird in a weird way. Sometimes this is handy, like when I can see a solution to a problem that no one else can see. Or when I can learn in six weeks what would typically take someone years to master. Sometimes it has been immensely frustrating, like when I would barely pass in school for not completing mindless, tedious homework over concepts I'd mastered in minutes, even though my test scores were through the roof. "Attention Deficit Disorder" disorder, they wanted to label me. Attention Deficit? I can pay attention and focus the entire power of my mind to crack a problem you've been struggling with for decades! You try staring at a blank piece of paper for 6 hours straight and don't think about anything else but the paper. That's what it's like for me to pay attention in school. Yet I'm told I don't stack up to the other kids.

Yeah, see? I maaaay have some bitterness stuck in there somewhere.

So anyway, I'm genuinely considering that I may belong to this club. Though to be honest, I don't agree with the charter at this point. I don't like any of the current definitions of Asperger's that I've read. I don't like any definition of a group that includes multiple possible symptoms. "People that have blue eyes OR people that sleep on their side OR people that are Chinese, but live in America." These are either separate groups that have some overlap, or there is an underlying cause that generates all these symptoms, in which case, that's the definition, not the symptoms. I haven't heard a good, unifying definition yet, but being that self-introspection is one of my "special interests," I'm looking forward to sinking my teeth into that and helping to figure it out if it hasn't been already.

So that's me and my story. Please feel free to provide your own thoughts or opinions or even amateur (or professional) diagnoses. I'm trying really hard here not to "see Jesus in the toast." I don't want to shoe-horn symptoms onto me that don't really fit, just for the sake of an easy diagnosis. But I am interested in other takes or things I might have missed or been mistaken about.

 

[Katleya]

Welcome to the club, where you'll soon see everybody's weird in their own weird way
(But occasionally we do overlap)

 

[NinaB]

Welcome : )

 

[Gracey]

Hello Jeremy

 

[Crossbreed]

I don't know what you concluded, but gifted NTs have the ability to go into Aspie mode, too. I'm 2E, so I rub elbows in both crowds. A 2E expert that I know says Aspergers and giftedness show signs of being related conditions.

Check out the traits of gifted children to see what I mean.

 

[Fitzo]

Hi Jeremy and welcome.
Like you I have had many different jobs, interests and skills that I've mostly taught myself but once they're mastered it's 'been there, done that'.
I didn't think anyone had particularly noticed until last year when my brother told someone 'oh Fitzo can do anything'.
I guess the one defining characteristic ( correct me if I'm wrong, folks ) would be social issues. Do you have many friends, have you lost friends for no obvious reason, do you have or ever have a best friend? If something happened ( god forbid ) to your wife, would you have someone to turn to or have you always been pretty content to just have her?
I hasten to point out that I'm just starting to pursue a formal diagnosis and the very first person ( my GP ) I discussed it with couldn't wait to assure me I didn't have it, he would know if I did, he's never come across anyone diagnosed as an adult etc etc.
Have you ever had depression, anxiety, panic attacks etc. These are also pretty universal as far as I can tell.
Good luck on your journey to self understanding!

 

[Streetwise]

welcome I'm still like you I have been diagnosed 22 months I'm 47 nearly 48 it appears to be very Common to not know you are autistic if you were born the late 1980s or your countries psychiatric profession doesn't recognise high functioning autism.
it's still doubt it I think young boys non-verbal anxious and almost catatonic.
I just think anxiety severe
I have very rarely experienced being non-

verbal but I suffer terrible anxiety

 

[Crossbreed]

I guess the one defining characteristic ( correct me if I'm wrong, folks ) would be social issues.

Social issues with NTs. Even before I knew that I was an Aspie, I responded to NT rejection by seeking out friends that were also likely to be Aspies. (They had been rejected, too.)

 

[StephF]

Hi there

 

[xudo]

So that's me and my story. Please feel free to provide your own thoughts or opinions or even amateur (or professional) diagnoses.

Amateur diagnoses are of no benefit to anyone. Nobody here can give you anything like a diagnosis. If you truly want to know whether you are on the spectrum somewhere or not, then seek out a professional.

Being diagnosed with ASD runs the gambit from atypical autism (my husband has this diagnosis) to Asperger's (my diagnosis) to classical Autism. It's called a spectrum for a reason.

 

[Nitro]

 

[OkRad]

Be careful with seeking a dx. I was dxed in 2000 with atypical autism. THen, when they changed the DSM, a Dr wanted me re evaulted. By this time, I thought I had it so OK. It was part of who I am and I had a community and support.

Well, I go to a well known autism specialist who was the most incredibly rude person I ever met. He leaned back in his chair and said, "So, what do you think of all this autism stuff?" He also had a cold and kept coughing in my face.

I was taken aback and said, "Well, I was dx a while back and...." He actually snickered.
He had that look like, 'ANOTHER mentally ill middle aged person who wants to blame it all on autism..."

No, mind you, I rock, i banged my head as a kid, I have a genetic duplication over Chrosome 6 which can cause autism, I cant read social skills to save my life. I have no friends because I can't get it, I can only eat about 5 foods, I have stims, and sensory processing disorder and etc on it goes.

He finally says, after humiliating me,

"We knew as soon as you walked in the door that you don't have it. You looked us in the eye and you smiled. DOwnright warm."

After that I was so depressed I did not leve the house for weeks. Humilated beyond belief. He said I just had a personaliy disorder and do DBT. Ignored everything else even the chromosonal issue.

Total humiliation. I am really not over it

 

[onlything]

Hi there Jeremy.

You seem like a smart guy. Do your research. Read books. Do tests. If you want - visit doctors. If not, don't. Then decide if it's fitting.

You seek a sense of belonging in a world that is weird and different to you, with people that don't think like you. Understandable. But only you can really answer if you do belong. Though I'm sure that many here will embrace you whatever you decide.

So, welcome and I hope you'll find what you're looking for here.

About your observations. People on spectrum are good at observations. Some are better, some are worse. We're all different, seeing as it's a spectrum. With our ability to focus, observe and find solutions I think it's highly probable to naturally 'form' ones senses into what you have. You're intelligent, you seek, you analyse. That's it. Something to be proud of, for sure.

 

[wight]

@Jeremy French, many of the things you are describing are typical behaviors of people with high IQ.
There is some overlap of social deficit and other "classic AS symptoms."

Not that you can't have both, but if you are "failing" the nuero-diversity tests, my thinking is to take a look at "behaviors of geniuses".

 

[wight]

From this website: What It’s Like To Have An Extremely High IQ?
A little way down the page, see if this sounds at all familiar:

It took me some time as a young kid to figure out that the people around me weren't interested in the same things I was. And that, often, to talk about the things I found interesting turned people away.

So I hid that.

When they announced that I was valedictorian of my high school, I was in 1st period art class, and one of my classmates refused to believe that they’d said my name.

But I never felt like I belonged anywhere, and I still don’t.

I don’t have kids, TV doesn’t interest me, I don’t follow celebrities or watch sports. My time is spent with my work, and researching the things that are important to me — astrophysics, particle physics, consciousness research, and although this might seem strange to some people, Biblical scholarship (tho I’m not a believer).

As a result, chit-chat is impossible for me, or else it’s so boring that it becomes impossible.

But like I said, the problem isn’t only that my brain is interested in things that most other brains aren’t. It’s also what my brain can’t do.

There’s only a certain amount of space in the brain, and if one area is eating up the real estate with more neural power, some other part of the brain is likely losing out.

For me, it’s some of the automatic social functioning which tells you, for example, what emotion another person is feeling based on their facial expression, or whether someone’s being sarcastic or not. (Sarcasm is a minefield for me, and meeting another person in a hallway is a nightmare — I cannot interpret when to look, or not, what to say, or not, etc.)

 

[Jeremy French]

Wow! So many friendly, helpful people, and so many to respond to.

Check out the traits of gifted children to see what I mean.

@Jeremy French, many of the things you are describing are typical behaviors of people with high IQ

Guys, you are not helping!

I'm kidding. You're obviously being extremely helpful and generous. I'm just trying to get some answers, and you're opening up more questions. It feels like backward progress. Of course, my ego is quite eager to pursue any conclusion that I have a high IQ and that explains everything. So for that reason, I have to go cautiously. I have always felt like I have a higher IQ than usual, but I don't know. It does seem weird that so many characteristics between Asperger's/Autism overlap with high IQ. Suspicious even. Could there be a causal relationship between them? Or some third thing that causes both? Could those labeled as "low functioning autism" just be so far off the charts in IQ that we just don't understand what they're doing? I know I've been mistaken for stupid or incapable by people who just didn't have the capacity to understand why I did what I did. I don't know. These aren't theories yet. They're just questions I'm considering. (Maybe questions for their own separate post).

I guess the one defining characteristic ( correct me if I'm wrong, folks ) would be social issues. Do you have many friends, have you lost friends for no obvious reason, do you have or ever have a best friend?

Yes, in that regard, I fall within the category quite nicely. I say I was the class clown in high school, and I was within the inner circle of the cool kids at one of the schools I attended (where they'd known me since kindergarten), but it was exhausting. And toward the end of high school and into college, I ditched that effected persona and became much more introverted (and more truly myself). Since that point, I've had terrible time making and keeping friends. Any social interaction with someone I don't know causes literal panic. I stutter, my vocabulary abandons me. I generally look the fool. I have had some very bad things happen to me due to things I have no sane explanation for, including a string of firings and losing my best friend since 6th grade because she thought I was asking to have an affair with her. (I wasn't.) I've always written this off as people being intimidated by my intelligence, and afraid because they knew I had the capability to hurt them, even though I had the honor and integrity not to. But the possibility that it was a miscommunication on the subtext level is something I've just started considering recently. My wife's theory is that it's a result of the hyperception thing. That, although I never come out and explain what I do, i eventually in some way reveal that I know something going on in their head that they never said out loud, and that freaks people the heck out and they scramble away from me as quickly as possible. So again, more questions than answers.

I will say, however, that I have issues with a definition that includes, "doesn't do well following accepted social cues." These social interactions are only defined by wholesale agreement of the masses. In that regard it's very similar in concept to fashion. Something is only fashionable because we all say it is. So if someone is "bad" at keeping up with fashion, how do you diagnose the difference between "can't" and "never bothered to learn" or "doesn't care"? From the outside, they're going to look exactly the same. And even from the inside, unless you're particularly good at monitoring your own thoughts and emotions, you might not be able to tell the difference either.

Understand, I'm not pointing to anyone else's experience and saying "you are" or "you're not." I would never try to tell someone else what their own experience is like, and I'm not talking about who's in the club versus who isn't. I'm only saying the definition sucks, and if we're all "bad" at this one thing, maybe there's a deeper reason why, and maybe that's the better definition.

You seek a sense of belonging in a world that is weird and different to you, with people that don't think like you. Understandable. But only you can really answer if you do belong.

I may have a bit of a unique experience in this regard, in that I went through the very painful process of trying desperately to fit in, failing repeatedly, and finally accepting that I am not what everyone else is, and coming to like who I am - all prior to this revelation regarding Asperger's. So I had already had a crisis of identity and come out on the other side, reinventing my life to work with who I am instead of who everyone else was, and accepting and loving myself as a completely different type of person with a whole set of different rules that applied to me and not other people, and vice versa. Only after that experience, did I come upon this possibility that I might not be alone in the universe, but there may be others like me. This does nothing in terms of defining who I am or helping me accept that. But it provides, if it's true, an enormous opportunity to share thoughts and learn from someone else, instead of having to learn absolutely everything through trial and error.

Amateur diagnoses are of no benefit to anyone. Nobody here can give you anything like a diagnosis. If you truly want to know whether you are on the spectrum somewhere or not, then seek out a professional.

Don't worry, xudo. I'm not one to blame my decisions on something someone else tells me. I know no one here can give me an official diagnosis. I'm just looking for anyone's opinion who offers it, even if that goes as far as someone saying, "that sounds like Asperger's to me!"

I know enough about the medical community to know that doctors are just as fallible as anyone else. Possibly more so in the US, as our litigious society forces them to act like they are certain about everything that comes out of their mouth, which then causes a lot of people to trust as gospel what is essentially sometimes a guess.

I also know enough about Asperger's and Autism at this point to know that, if there's anything we do know, it's that it is not well-understood yet. As OKRad and Fitzo pointed out, even professionals can be horrendously wrong. I don't really think I'd be able to trust a professional diagnosis anyway unless it was from a trusted friend who was also an expert in Asperger's diagnoses. I don't have any friends like that. So short of that, I'll take as many opinions as I can, and try to derive the truth from the morass of information thus presented.

 

[Crossbreed]

Of course, my ego is quite eager to pursue any conclusion that I have a high IQ and that explains everything. So for that reason, I have to go cautiously.

If you can't afford an official IQ test, sign up for Mensa testing. They use two real IQ tests in their screening. I believe that they will return your scores on them (pass or fail). Their IQ score scales are different than the modern WAIS-IV, but I can convert them for you, if you'd like. (That is best done privately via a PM.)

Since they are not processed by your own personal psychometrist, they cannot be accepted into your medical record, but $60 is a good price for that trade-off. Other high-IQ groups, like Intertel, will accept qualifying scores from Mensa's tests, too. If you qualify for either, you are invited to join, but you don't have to. (I lapsed on both when I couldn't afford their dues, but I'm back now.)

 

[Crossbreed]

As OKRad and Fitzo pointed out, even professionals can be horrendously wrong.

Organizations like Affiliate Network - Autism Society and US Autism & Asperger Association are very knowledgeable on the subject and good resources for service providers.

 

[Crossbreed]

Could those labeled as "low functioning autism" just be so far off the charts in IQ that we just don't understand what they're doing?

I have two low-functioning (adult*) kids. They are pretty much what-you-see-is-what-you-get. But there are other notable cases where the autie never becomes verbal, but finds another way to communicate (like via keyboard). When that occurs, they can finally be assessed in their IQs.

*30yo son, mental age 7-10yo; 23yo daughter, m.a.= 18mos. (non-verbal)

 

[Fitzo]

Organizations like Affiliate Network - Autism Society and US Autism & Asperger Association are very knowledgeable on the subject and good resources for service providers.

As I see it, one of the reasons for misdiagnoses is that many in the fields of medicine and mental health think they already know it all and have a real resistance to learning from others who may know more than they do.
Only yesterday I emailed a guy I know who is a psychologist and explained that I'm seeking a diagnosis, and as he knew me (not really well) I wondered if he had ever observed anything about me that he thought might fit with this diagnosis. I also asked him if he was familiar with the recognized worldwide guru of Aspergers (who happens to live in Australia) and who I am hoping ultimately to see.
Straight away he said no and once again proclaimed that he would have KNOWN if I was an Aspie.
He then went on to pontificate about his own credentials in the field of psychiatry and said this:

"In short, all diagnoses of this disorder are from ‘clinical interpretation’. That is, clinical ‘guesswork’ drawn from subjective behavioural or self- answered questionnaires.
So, it’s a bit like palm reading, everyone thinks they can do it, and there’s no ‘objective’ measure of right and wrong!"

He clearly wasn't familiar with the expert I mentioned and just as clearly wasn't interested in learning about him or his research. However, he was happy to offer his advice if I wanted to tell him my specific concerns.

Needless to say I declined the offer!

If these guys could just get past their own egos we might make some real progress in this in field.